Jayco Sterling 23 and Mitsubishi Pajero

Hi Bob
We have a Pajero and tow a Jayco 17.55 outback with a gross mass of about 2100kg. The Pajero handles it very well, and I would think it would manage the '23' OK. The concern would be that the '23' having a tare of around 2200kg, may exceed the Pajero's allowance when laden.
Cheers Roy

Thanks - that's good advice! I haven't seen the ATM, only the Tare weight on the Jayco brochure - I will need to look at the plate. Is there no way of reducing the ATM legally?

ATM (Aggregate Trailer Mass) is the maximum ALL UP weight as certified by the trailer (Van) manufacturer.
The actual loaded weight is the Gross Weight and MUST not exceed the ATM.
The allowance by most manufacturers is 400kg above the Tare Weight to establish the ATM. With a shower van in particular with two water tanks this allowance is usually inadequate leaving many vans illegally over weight. Fortunately some manufactures have larger allowances and others will issue a new compliance plate if approached pointing out the inadequate allowance.
ozjohn

Thanks Graham Heather and Ron, I now feel I understand this subject a lot better and should be at the top of the class when I do my Tow-Ed course later this month. Thanks to your advice I have a trip to a public weighbridge planned and I am also calling the NSW RTA, the Insurance Co and Jayco to get all my ducks in a row. It's ironic, we decided to buy a caravan to rid our lives of stress - oops - recalibrate:)

Thanks again for your patience and advice - it seems like I'm not the only one to have been a bit confused

Kind regards

Cant offer any advice re weights as we tow a C/t under 750kg.
But would like to say welcome aboard EO as a member. As you can see , plenty of smart & knowledgeable people live here.
cheers...oldbaz.

Thanks Oldbaz. I've now spoken to just about everyone I'd planned to on this subject and here's what the said:

Jayco - The law is that you can not tow more that the capacity of the towing vehicle.

It does not refer to the tare weight but weight of the caravan when loaded .

A 23ft Sterling has a load allowance of 475kg which based on a tare of2185kg fully loaded the van would be 160kg overweight and so illegal .

The question is can you keep your load to under 315kg remembering that full water and gas tanks will account for over 200kg.

You should also consider the ball weight your vehicle can legally handle in relation to the van you are considering.

We would not normally recommend a van over 21ft for your vehicle.

RTA NSW -
The loaded mass of the trailer must not exceed the lesser of:
• Rated capacity of towbar and tow coupling
• Maximum towing capacity of the vehicle
• Maximum carrying capacity of the trailer.
• Maximum rated carrying capacity of the tyres

So I'm off to the weighbridge to check the laden weight of the caravan, the tow ball mass and the gross combination mass to confirm they are within the manufactureres limits. Finges crossed! Might have to gorgoe the satellite dish:)Thanks again everyone.

Graham, thanks for your concern and persistence. I've now checked with the Road Traffic Authority of NSW, The Insurance Company, Jayco and the specialist firm that fitted the electric brake controller and provided the towing hitch, as well as various other caravaners, one of whom tows the exact same model van with a Pajero like mine and has been a caravaner for 15 years. They all say the same thing - as long as I don't exceed 2500kg laden weight on the caravan then I am within the law but this obviously reduces the available payload from the maximum the van is rated for. I'm taking the rig to the weigh bridge tomorrow to confirm that I can do that.

Thanks again - your input has been valuable. I did request that you provide the referecne for your source of information but I can't see it in any of your posts - are you able to provide it please? If not don't worry.

Regards
Bob

Thanks everyone for you input - especially Graham for whom this web-site must be a labour of love:). I now have all the information I need so for my sake there is no need for anyone to post any more (but I know Graham won't be able to resist:)) By all means keep the thread going for the sake of others. I have certainly learned a huge amount in just a few days, for which I am truly grateful.

In the end I have spoken with a variety of authorities including Mitsubishi, Jayco, the NSW RTA (twice and got two conflicting pieces of advice!), the NSW Police, CIL Insurance, the NRMA, Alliance, Tow-Ed, a public weighbridge operator, a couple of other caravaners who tow 23' Jayco's with a Pajero and of course all the good people on this site who have taken the time to provide input. Suffice it to say there is an array of opinions about what is 'legal' and of the likelihood of ever finding myself with a regulatory or insurance policy breach but the most consistent advice is that as long as I do not tow a load (ie an actual physical mass) in excess of my Pajero's specified towing capacity (2500kg) I'm most unlikely to have aproblem with either the NSW RTA, the NSW Police, my Pajero Insurer or my caravan insurer. The van was weighed with everything for the trip except food/drink and the rear water tank was empty. It's actual aggregate trailer mass weighed in at a little over 2340kg, so it's within the specified maximum load for the Pajero and well below the maximum rated ATM for the van. So we have finalised the purchase, however we decided to keep our options open for upgrading the Pajero depending upon how it perfroms -watch this space!

One of the issues that will no doubt give the layers a field day if ever this matter is tested in court is that the vehicle manufacturer, the insurers and the RTA use completely different terminology which creates the opportunity for a lot of interpretation. But hey, that's what layers are for - right?