Holden workers face job cuts as GM cries for help

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 17:58
ThreadID: 66075 Views:2195 Replies:7 FollowUps:33
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Just read this on the ninemsn news bulletin see if I can copy and paste,

Site Link

have to go out and come back to see if it has worked.
Cheers Bruce
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Reply By: Member - Warfer (VIC) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 17:59

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 17:59
Use This Link




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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:05

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:05
Thanks Warfer
Cheers Bruce
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Reply By: Isuzumu - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:04

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:04
Seems the link is broken so some one may be able to sort it for me thanks.
Anyway things are not looking to good for Holden it seems, there looks to be quite a few cuts to their productions.
I wonder if Kevin 737 will now give as all $30k or $40k to buy a new car now to save the econony lol.
Gees Bruce behave yourself wack wack.








Cheers Bruce
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 01:07

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 01:07
Why the Kevin 737 stuff? I hope this is not a reflection of yourself!

ABC
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 07:21

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 07:21
Maybe I am not a Labour voter like you Dick, and thats my reflection.
Cheers Bruce
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 14:13

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 14:13
No more money Isuzumu after the last lot ended up in the bin as discarded Xmas wrapping paper.

It was claimed that $10.4 Billion would boost employment??

Its a bit difficult to comprehend why it didn't as Kev said it would and we know he does not make up policy on the run.

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 14:41

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 14:41
John,

It's a broken record and it is getting very boring.

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 17:14

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 17:14
Sorry if the truth hurts but get used to it.

If it bores you Jim then its easy fixed, Don't read it and go back to sleep.



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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 17:56

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 17:56
John,

You have lack of understanding of the most fundamental economic principles. You are a right wing extremist who believes that capitalist greed is good. I'll let you in on a liitle secret; that's what got the world into this current mess.

Try having a look at the world with both eyes open.

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 18:23

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 18:23
Go back to sleep, you repeated proclaimed expertise on world affairs are boring me.

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 20:32

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 20:32
Sorry to take so long to get back to you John.

I've been enjoying dinner on the Pergola with my wife. It is a colossal night in Melboure.

Oh, did you listen to the news tonight. Another Shadow Minister sacked. This is just after Bishop fell on her sword, The Hyena rejected the job and Hockey became the third Shadow Treasurer in 15 months.

I suppose that is better than two Opposition Leaders in the same time.

Did I forget to mention Truss and Abbot are at loggerheads over the Pensioner payment increase.

Get used to it LOL. You're in for 5 more years of this at least. The Opposition is a rabble. Turnbull invited the Hyena back to the front bench. Good tactical move; it is always wise to keep to keep your enemy close.

But the Hyena refused. Just like his namesake he will slink away at a safe distance until the enemy is mortally wounded.

The Hyena will lurk (he's sharp) and after the next defeat will swoop on the carcasses, take control, in the hope that he might win in 2013.

I doubt it though.

This current rabble is less effective than the Labor Opposition under Latham. And their problem is that they don't have any semblance of a Kevin Rudd to drag them out of the mire.

Enjoy your "life".

By the way, my business, marriage and social life is about as perfect as one could hope for.

Kind Regards,

Jim.

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 21:58

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 21:58
"By the way, my business, marriage and social life is about as perfect as one could hope for"

Thats great I'm really pleased for you although I can't see what relevance to the thread it has??

Its also a bit of a worry when someone has to repeatedly try and convince everyone around them that their world is perfect.
Obviously some sort of insecurity on the individuals behalf??

As for the Opposition issues, So what? its not them thats making policy on the run that our grand children will be paying for.

I guess from your perspective all this repeated commenting works well for you as it contributes to the self promotion thing that you are renowned for.

Cheers

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 07:18

Friday, Feb 20, 2009 at 07:18
"Policy on the run"

What do you expect Rudd to do? Sit back analyse the situation for another year. Then come to the realisation that we have been going in ever decreasing circles and finally disappeared up our own arse.

The man is acting, rather than reacting. Don't you listen to the news? The package has the support of Big Business and Economists across the country.

What would you propose? That ridiculous policy that Bishop put forward which was a proven failure 20 years ago when Reagan introduced it. That sent the USA into a spiral of debt that took years to remedy.

Get over your bias.

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Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:09

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:09
The really sad part of this for Holden is they are a small backwater in the GM empire.

No matter how profitable they are their balance sheet will be swallowed by an inefficient head office.

Personally I think GM, Ford and Chrysler are dead from the neck up and no amount of money will save them. Actually, I doubt if there is sufficient money in this world to save their dinosaur backsides.

As hard as it sounds the ultimate answer may well be Darwinian, let them become extinct.

Geoff
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Follow Up By: Member - Warfer (VIC) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:24

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:24
**Personally I think GM, Ford and Chrysler are dead from the neck up and no amount of money will save them**

I'll go one step further and say they could never build a car that lasts,especially when they jump to plastic this and plastic that..Ive been a Holden driver for 20 years and usually after 5 years everything breaks (plastic) falls off etc etc..I still have the 5l Berlina Wagon which has cost me the same amount in repairs as i paid for it when it was 2 years old..When this gets sold i'll never buy another one..

You would think they would learn something from the Japs instead of wanting top dollar for crap !


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Follow Up By: Steve - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:31

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:31
you mean the Japs don't use plastic?? You've never had a Toyota then.

I've had a Commody from new in 97 and apart from 3 new alternators, it's been better than I hoped or.

Now, I shouldn't've said that should I ???????? I smell a visit to the grease monkey.

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Follow Up By: Steve - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:32

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:32
erm....hoped "for" that is

:))
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:45

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:45
Warfer,
That's their fundamental problem, not listening to the market.

I spent many years working for an American company in a different industry.

Their US based management firmly believe they have the answer to everything even if it doesn't match the question!

Now days the crowd I used to work for are at best a mild amusement in the industry.

From my experience I doubt their current "leaders" at any level have the imagination to save their national woe's.

Their focus is far to narrow, everyone is an expert on one thing and one thing only. There was a recent documentary on an American aircraft carrier, 6,000 sailors and most of them had two skills. One of which was sleeping!

Every nation/empire has its time in the sun, ask the Pom's.

Geoff




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Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:57

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 18:57
Geoff
This explains it all
>>
>> A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (GM) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practised long and hard
>> to reach their peak performance before the race.
>>
>> On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
>>
>> The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior
>> management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.
>>
>> Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering,
>> while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.
>>
>> Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.
>>
>> They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
>> Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally
>> reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.
>>
>> They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the
>> 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other
>> equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant
>> savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.
>>
>> The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
>>
>> Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and cancelled all capital
>> investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
>>
>> The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable
>> performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India ...
>>
>> Sadly, the End.
>>
>> Here's something else to think about: GM has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US, claiming they can't make money
>> paying American wages.
>>
>> TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results:
>>
>> TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while GM racked up over 20 billion in losses.
>>
>> GM folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses... and now wants the Government to 'bail them out'.
>>
>> IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY
>>
>>
Ian









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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 19:15

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 19:15
Ian,
The "funny" part of that story to me is in Australia it's a joke, in America it's a business plan!

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Steve - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 20:28

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 20:28
I wouldn't be too smug about that Geoff, looking at the state of our state
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 20:58

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 20:58
Hi Steve,

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Member - Warfer (VIC) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 21:53

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 21:53
Crikey Ian thats one darn big reply lol

Thanks Geoff

***you mean the Japs don't use plastic?? You've never had a Toyota then.***

Look in my Profile Steve thats my Hilux lol.



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Follow Up By: Saharaman (aka Geepeem) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 23:11

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 23:11
Even Toyota is being hit by the economic downturn - expecting a $1.7billion dollar loss this fiscal year - the first loss in 70 years of trading.
Here is the press release:

TOKYO — The deepening global automotive depression has finally reached all the way to the top — to Japan's Toyota Motor Corporation, which on Monday said it now expects to lose money in its automotive operations. This will be the first such loss in 70 years.

Toyota, like its Japanese counterparts, has been staggered by the yen's stunning appreciation against the U.S. dollar — which makes Japanese exports more expensive overseas — as well as plunging vehicle sales in North America and other major export markets.

For the fiscal year that ends March 31, Toyota still expects to eke out a modest profit of $555 million, which looks pretty good in comparison to the billions of dollars of losses incurred already this year by Detroit's beleaguered automakers.

But the world's largest vehicle manufacturer by sales volume and market value said it now expects to post a fiscal-year operating loss of nearly $1.7 billion, a dramatic turnaround from the $13.9 billion operating profit Toyota had forecast earlier this year and revised operating profit of $6.7 billion that it released in November. Media reports in Japan said it would be the first operating loss since just after the firm was founded in 1937.

Executives also said total revenues for the fiscal year now are expected to fall about 18 percent, to around $239 billion, revised downward from the earlier projection of $256 billion.

The company is facing a crisis of critical proportions after basking in eight consecutive years of record profits. In fiscal 2008, which ended last March 31, Toyota posted an operating profit of $25.3 billion and a group net profit of $19.1 billion.

In announcing the automaker's second downward financial revision in six weeks, a clearly shaken Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe said: "It's a kind of emergency that we've never experienced before.... It's not yet possible to tell where the market's bottom will be."

Watanabe also dramatically lowered the company's vehicle sales forecast. For calendar-year 2008, Toyota now expects that global group sales, including those of Daihatsu and Hino, will drop more than 4 percent, to 8.96 million vehicles, from 9.37 million in 2007. Before the current crunch, Toyota earlier this year had forecast that sales would climb to 9.85 million units in 2008.

At the company's year-end press conference, Toyota said it is taking a wide variety of measures to slash operating costs, from canceling directors' bonuses to unplugging the electric hand dryers at the company's Nagoya headquarters. Toyota last week said it is delaying construction on the new Prius assembly plant in Mississippi.

Cheers,
GPM
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 00:55

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 00:55
Wota crock!!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Warfer (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:01

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:01
****Wota crock!!!!***

Why dont you explain then Hairy ?????? ...



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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:05

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:05
Mmmm where should I start........
"I'll go one step further and say they could never build a car that lasts"......Wota crock

"You would think they would learn something from the Japs instead of wanting top dollar for crap ! ".......Wota crock

The last time I had a look at the new Commodore's/Monaro's etc I thought they were absolutely awsome!
My brother bought a CV8 Monaro a couple of years back....when I look at that, "crap" is the last thing that springs to mind.
Unless you want to pay for a Bently or Bugatti Im afraid your going to get plastic door handles.
As for not lasting....Ever noticed how many EH/HR/HK/HT/HG etc etc are still getting around? Compare that to old Jap cars.
Have a look at the old cars out bush.....not to many Jap cars out there? Why? Could it be because the old Holdens and Falcons proved to be much more reliable?

Remember the Bathurst 24 Hours??
Monaro, 1st and 2nd buy miles.....out of a field of cars from all over the world....Lambos, Ferraris, Dodge vipers, mazdas.....you name it...... hardly the signs of an unreliable piece of crap I would have thought?

Sorry Mate...can't convince me..LOL
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Follow Up By: Member - Warfer (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:43

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:43
I dont need to convince you Hairy ~(*--) Why is Toyota number one,because Aussies hav wised up to the fact that this country produces crap...Pure and simple LOL

Interesting to see if your brother still has his Manaro in 5-6 years time and what issue;s hes had...Reminds me better take out a long life membership !


Cheers

Oh i did do a detailed response but the cache thing in firefox is not working for some reason and lost it ,bugga.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 12:45

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 12:45
Its a bit like comparing apples to oranges though I reckon.
Heres how I see it....

Monaro- Australian built legendary muscle car. Built for the red blooded, grunt loving Australian.Definitely not recommended for the Latte sipping fag.
Image Could Not Be FoundImage Could Not Be Found

Corrola- Quaint little economical rice burners. Easy to get into that tight little car park in front of your favourite Cafe. Highly recommended for the intercity snag.
Image Could Not Be FoundImage Could Not Be Found

Give me an SS commodore over some rice burning piece of snot anyday!
Hahahahaha...........
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 13:43

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 13:43
dont just think thats the american business plan
- look at oz minerals and you will see many simularites with that 'joke"

they will soon announce the sale of.......................... their only australian mine making money
and the rest of the company has been sold down the road
- look for how much michelmore will walk out with and put that on top of the 8 mill hegerty walked out with

im telling you - the criminals arnt in jail
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Follow Up By: Member - Warfer (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 13:58

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 13:58
Each to there own Bud,I thought like you but ricey burners pump out the kw's these days..Anyway you cant use any of it...

That latest Manaro does look nice though,could even pass with a Merc badge on it i reckon...



Cheers
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 14:13

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 14:13
FollowupID: 618133 Submitted: Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 11:43
Member - Warfer (VIC) posted:

I dont need to convince you Hairy ~(*--) Why is Toyota number one,because Aussies hav wised up to the fact that this country produces crap...Pure and simple LOL



Just a tongue in cheek response ........

I was always intrigued by the fact that GMH became totally reliant on rebadges imports just in time for the debute of all the new mid 80s toyotas.

I include the commode in that comment coz despite the fact that its a quite a reasonable vehicle now after 30yrs of fiddling with it ... it was never a home grown thing.

Strange also that no Aust vehicle maker ever contemplated a production 4x4 ... all the ground work had beeen done by private firms in the 70s to get started with.
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 22:52

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 22:52
Hairy, had to laugh. The reason why we are having to pay to pay so much extra over the years for imported cars was because people bought other cars than the Australian made ones. It is some years since I bought one as the management couldn't make something I found attractive to me.

A colleague was at university in the US doing a top up course some years ago and there was one of the heads of GM there doing the same. The GM guy told the assembled students - mid life ones, that GM had learnt from the Japanese manufacturers and that there would be some new models there the next week to drive. My colleague went to look and found that it was virtually the same group of cars that he saw on American roads, just different options. They appeared not to have learnt anything then, and even less now.

I think I would still rather pay import duty than a lot of the offering, but it is getting better locally. Just taking too much time. Just to give them more space the government is paying them heaps more on my behalf. I thought my borrowing was already high enough,
Cheers,
Who?
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Reply By: toyotabits.com - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 19:53

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 19:53
GM,FORD & CHRYSLER don't realise they are making cars people don't want! It doesn't cost anymore to make a good car rather than a bad car - if they surveyed what people like/want instead of the dinosaurs they expect to push onto their people from their bigheads in control, why give them more money to squander on rubbish - they may give better rubbish? thats all they can do - let them go. In 1985 GM America divorced itself from GMH Australia as we were on the skids, so we produced an outstanding model, the Holden VL,(don't you hate it - I'm a Toyota man) it was a success story in our country as a popular model, hence the turnaround, America needs to learn a lesson from us from the ground up. Ask what people would like!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Howard (ACT) - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 21:47

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 21:47
best holden ever thanks to a terriffic nissan engine
cheers
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Reply By: Steve - Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 20:11

Wednesday, Feb 18, 2009 at 20:11
No leaders. They're all on the gravy train

Look at the NSW pollies
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Reply By: DIO - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 09:33

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 09:33
The US auto industry has been struggling finaincially for many years. The unions fought tooth and nail to prevent the developement of auto plants in mainland USA by Japanese and Europeans. Despite numerous warnings that they (US manufacturers) were producing the wrong type of vehicle (for the masses) they continued to churn out tens of thousands of large pickup trucks with gas guzzling features. They were in fact caught short and this is despite their managers/directors receiving huge annual payments to manage, they just couldn't/wouldn't get it right. So who really cares. Judging by the enormous number of Japanese/European derived vehicles being bought in the good old US of A, I would suggest NOT MANY.
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Follow Up By: Member - Warfer (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:06

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:06
Thats how out of touch they are,I remember when they all rolled up in a private jet with there hands out to Congress pleading poverty !


Cheers
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Follow Up By: Saharaman (aka Geepeem) - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 14:09

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 14:09
I am not entering the debate about Holden vs the Japs but in terms of efficiency Warfer is absolutely correct. The Big 3 in USA turned up in their private jets to Washington to seek tax payers funding to keep their monolithes alive - compare that with the Japs (see my follow up 10 of 17 above) where they have even turned off the electric handdryers in company headquarters to save money in an economic downturn. A bit like chalk and cheese really...
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Reply By: The Landy - Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 15:52

Thursday, Feb 19, 2009 at 15:52
There’ll always be a US auto industry; who has the upper hand will change from time to time - management or the unions.

What is clear is that the US will always support this industry as it employs people; throwing money at it is a bit like unemployment benefits. Either pay them to do something or pay them to do nothing.

Also it will never want to be reliant our the manufacturing capability of other countries; political alliances change and a couple of world wars have demonstrated that you want to be able to make the things you want, when you want it most.
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