What's faster of these two cars
Submitted: Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 14:47
ThreadID:
66189
Views:
5478
Replies:
15
FollowUps:
27
This Thread has been Archived
bucky00
Hi all
I’ve got a question. There are two cars that I’m scratching my head over which one to buy.
An 80 Series Sahara 4.2 turbo diesel automatic with a bull bar, storage system etc and 33 inch mud terrains.
A SWB GQ 4.2 diesel non turbo automatic set up basically the same as the 80 series.
1. One thing I’m unsure about though, I live in an area full of hills and roads full of corners and slow drivers who I have to overtake. What would be faster of the two going up hills and so
forth? One reason I scratch my head, the 80 has a turbo but he GQ is a lighter SWB. Also how much heavier would the 80 series Sahara be anyway?
2. Also what would have better on road handling do you think? The lighter shorter part time 4wd GQ or the longer heavier full time 4wd 80 series?
3. On roads full of corners, is being shorter an advantage for handling or a disadvantage?
4. If these roads were wet, would I lose control easier with the lighter shorter part time 4wd SWB GQ or the heavier longer full time 4wd 80 series.
5. Correct me if I’m wrong, the shorter your car the easier it is to lose control on slippery roads and unsealed roads.
Thanks for your help.
Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 14:54
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 14:54
Bucky, neither, what you need is a WRX or an EVO.
Cheers.....Lionel.
AnswerID:
350403
Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 14:58
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 14:58
...... or patience!
FollowupID:
618720
Follow Up By: Member - Tony B (Malanda FNQ) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:42
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:42
Lionel - I think you hit the nail on the head.
Bucky - You choose your 4 x 4 mainly for its offroad ability, there not meant to be a speed & power machine. You need what Lionel said for that. But in saying that my Holden 4Cyl Turbo 120 Killer WASPS has enough power to get me past a car and up and down the hills safely. Maybee you do not have to look into the bigger cars to get what you are after.
Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
618727
Follow Up By: bucky00 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:51
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:51
I know they're not meant as a speed and power machine, I don't expect that, I'm just curious of those questions before I decide because every little bit helps where I'm from.
I've only got a four wheel drive because I'm a four wheel driver and I'm not going to own two cars because I'm not fussed enough to not use a 4wd in my area, I'm no leadfoot, I'm just a little curious of what would be better on the road, especially seen as I'll be keeping it for a long time. I don't just use it personally everyone, I use it commercially, so I do a lot of km.
FollowupID:
618730
Reply By: get outmore - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:18
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:18
leme get this straight
- you want to buy 15 year old diesal 4by and your main considerations are hillclimbing ability and handling?
wanting to push the vehicle so hard you yourself consider its likely youll lose control
you obviosly watched
bathurst 1 too many times as a kid
AnswerID:
350406
Follow Up By: bucky00 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:32
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:32
I'm not deciding it over these factors, I'm no leadfoot, but I'm in an area where you need to think about it a little, such as every morning when I've got to go and get the papers for my work, I've got to pull onto the highway at the bottom of a huge
hill and have to go up and I get trucks and cars flying around blind corners behind me at 100 km/h and I'm working it as hard as I can to get up and doing 50 km/h at the top with a traffic jam behind me. In winter, the roads here are wet 80% of the time, so I need to think a little about on road control and handling in the wet, especially when I'll have mud tyres on and half the time I'm behind the wheel is on roads full of corners, so I'm a little curious what would handle better.
FollowupID:
618725
Reply By: Willem - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:28
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:28
Bucky
A Nissan 4.2 diesel swb won't pull the skin off a rice pudding
The Sahara might get bogged in it....(the pudding)
Maybe you should slow down a tad as you seem to be losing control already
If you need something nippy with grunt then buy a Nissan Xtrail or Toyota RAV
AnswerID:
350407
Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:31
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:31
If you don't know what a slide feels like and how to correct your going to lose control whatever your driving. If you don't know how to drive to the conditions you'll lose control , simple as that
AnswerID:
350410
Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:36
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:36
I have a toy in the shed that is faster. It is a CBR1100xx Blackbird.
Will kill a WRX.
Cheers
Stephen
AnswerID:
350412
Follow Up By: Ozboc - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:28
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:28
will have to give you a run on my Busa :) will keep within all stated speed limits off coarse :)
Busaboc
FollowupID:
618800
Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 22:10
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 22:10
Hi Ozboc
You will win hands down. But you have to admit, you have a bigger bike and the Blackbird turned around the big bike scene. As you know, we can both loose our licences without getting out of first gear.
You have a nice bike.
Cheers
Stephen
FollowupID:
618810
Follow Up By: Member - Chris & Debbie (QLD) - Monday, Feb 23, 2009 at 17:59
Monday, Feb 23, 2009 at 17:59
I think you will find the Blackbird has a higher topend though
Chris
FollowupID:
618917
Follow Up By: Ozboc - Monday, Feb 23, 2009 at 18:57
Monday, Feb 23, 2009 at 18:57
Stephen , thanks - you know it still blows me away the speed of these bikes ( previous bike was a fireblade) and your right , whether it be fireblade, Blackbird ( which i almost bought one ) R1 or Busa - most of the 1ltr+ will do 100 In first gear EASY and in about 2 - 3 seconds
stats for the busa are something like 2.5 sec to 100 cant remember to 200 then just short of 17 sec to 300 KPH
I am happy my Nisan is not capable of this :)
Boc
FollowupID:
618928
Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Feb 23, 2009 at 19:39
Monday, Feb 23, 2009 at 19:39
Hi Boc
I have had my bike since new in 1997. Because it does not have all the fancy paintwork like most other sports bikes, it was called the lion in a lambs coat. They look fairy meet and mild. Up until about 5000 rpm you think what is all the fuss about these bikes. Hit 7000 rpm and it is like a canon exploding. The Blackbird is good for 120 in first, 160 in second and so on. I know that the Police in England and Germany were using them as a pursuit bike, as they were the only stock standard vehicle that could outrun and catch the Porsche and high end European sports cars.
The quickest times I have read was the Honda Riders Club of Australia did a round Australia ride a number of years back. When the Blackbirds hit the NT border, they went between 2 town (206kms) in just over 50 minutes.
My bike is now for looks, as I get more fun four wheel driving
Cheers
Stephen
FollowupID:
618938
Reply By: bucky00 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:41
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:41
Don't go thinking I'm a leadfoot or a paranoid person everyone, like I stated in the post, I'm from an area full of hills and roads full of corners and one thing I should have put in, nearly every day in winter, it's either raining, the rain hasn't evaporated or the road's wet from frost.
So many people die on the roads in my area that the news doesn't show anything, the public would get sick of it, so power up hills, handling and control is one thing I need to think a little about.
AnswerID:
350414
Follow Up By: Member - Tony B (Malanda FNQ) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:47
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:47
Bucky. In the bigger cars a Holden v6 Jackeroo will give you the power and handling you are after, a bit smaller car a v6 Forerunner also good on power.
Both of those will give you what you are after, but not the fuel consumption. Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
618728
Follow Up By: Madfisher - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:44
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:44
Agree with Tony the 3.5 manual Jacks are very quick especially with the restrictors removed.158kw still not as quick as a
sedan but no slouch, the runners are 105kw. The manual Jack v6s will give similar economy to the large 6 cylinder Diesel 4bys with less servicing
Bucky you really need to test drive any vehicle to make a decision, as even with the same vehicle they vary a lot.
Cheers Pete
FollowupID:
618738
Follow Up By: bucky00 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:58
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:58
I have taken these cars for testdrives, one problem though, I was driving them at 40 km'h around backstreets, it's hard for me to tell the power they have going up huge hills so I'm not driving stupidly slow (40 or 50 in 100 zones) and I couldn't tell the handling the best either doing 40 km'h in backstreets so I know what I can drive the safest in my rather dangerous / hard to drive area. One of these is owned by a friend, so I might ask him if we can take it for a one hour drive in my area, he's said 50 times not to buy it unless I'm 100% sure I want it.
FollowupID:
618743
Follow Up By: Madfisher - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 18:00
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 18:00
I would be more worried about the gereral condition of either vehicle, but all things being equal I would go for the 80. Constant 4wd makes a huge handling diff in the wet. We recently delievered some 4wd Isuzu trucks and could not believe how much better they handled compared to the 2wd versions, could keep up with cars on steep windy hills.
Cheers Pete
FollowupID:
618764
Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Thoughtfully- Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:53
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 15:53
They would, in my opinion be around the same in performance and handling. Go with your heart, your going to hold up the traffic getting the paper in either of them.
AnswerID:
350419
Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:30
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:30
They will both make a big mess if they skid into innocent other road users.
The GQ will probably come off best out of the two after skidding off the road and hitting a tree.
.
AnswerID:
350425
Reply By: D200Dug- Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:37
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:37
I would suggest you take a course in meditation and learn to slow down and drive within the limits of your vehicle and the road.
You and others around you will live longer and happier lives if you do.
If you don't believe me go here and read some of the stories.
http://sharemystory.qld.gov.au/portal/index.php?option=com_storywizard&controller=story&task=listall&Itemid=119
Please read at least a few of the stories.
AnswerID:
350431
Follow Up By: bucky00 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:51
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:51
If you read the whole thread, you'll know that I'm not a leadfoot.
I've got a perfectly clean driving history, and I'm curious of the handling of the two because I want to drive 100% safely and never lose control and with all the hills I've got and all the people overtaking me dangerously because I can only go so fast in a big 4wd going up huge hills, I could drive safer with one that can keep up to speed a little more going up a huge
hill, such as do 70 going up a huge
hill with a 100 km/h speed limit instead of 50 because I wouldn't have people overtaking me dangerously all the time, even on double lines sometimes, the cops could probably book me for doing dangerously below the speed limit if I'm not careful.
FollowupID:
618739
Follow Up By: Madfisher - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 18:05
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 18:05
Got to agree with you Bucky, a more powerfull vehicle is often safer and will hold traffic up less. But I think you will find the 80 will keep up with traffic no problem.
I think some people got the wrong idea from your intial post which may have been worded better.
Cheers Pete
FollowupID:
618765
Reply By: Kroozer - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:53
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 16:53
Not sure if its just me or if people are just being real idiots with there replies. The man wants to know what is more powerful and has better handling out of 2 4wds. He isnt asking what car will be easier to roll or do better burnouts. The 80 will be mate, top motor which will still need to be driven hard up the
hill, but with constant 4wd the handling will be ten times that of a 2wd.
AnswerID:
350436
Follow Up By: Rockape - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 17:11
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 17:11
Krooser,
Bucky should buy the red one.
Do it easy and have a good day
FollowupID:
618750
Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 17:39
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 17:39
Agree Kroozer, getting back to answering the real question the 80 series will overtake quicker, safer & handle better in the corners despite the additional weight.
Cheers Craig............
FollowupID:
618759
Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 17:40
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 17:40
Im with you Kroozer .....
I read that bucky00 lives in an area where he needs to be able to achieve legal road speed as quickly as reasonably possible ... heading uphill ... because of traffic conditions.
This is so that some speeding clown doesnt come round a corner too fast and run up the back of bucky00 whos just legally entered from a side road / driveway and trying to match traffic conditions.
bucky00 ......
Im driving a 12yo 4.0l petrol auto with a full time 4wd ability ... good acceleration, traction and handling and comfort ...
Would meet all your requirements but I doubt it would be a brand you're interested in ..... LOLOL
FollowupID:
618760
Reply By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 18:40
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 18:40
The 80 series is the better of those two Bucky and it is also faster.
It will also handle more neutrally , the SWB gq has a significant handling issue at speed in that it switches from understeer to oversteer quite fast and it doesn't have the power to pull itself out - a dangerous combination.
Remember as someone said recently , understeer is when the tree is between your headlights and oversteer is when the tree is between your tail lights.
Personally I wouldn't choose either of those cars as anything that takes more than around 13 or 14 seconds to 100kph has a primary saftey issue.
I'll leave out the advice on what to buy as I see you have had plenty already.
AnswerID:
350455
Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 23:26
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 23:26
Must be a lot of unsafe trucks, buses, 4WD's, pushbikes etc on the roads these days....... ;-)
Mark
FollowupID:
618819
Reply By: Falco80 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 19:35
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 19:35
Go the 80 bucky, no contest :)
Cheers,
Dan
AnswerID:
350468
Reply By: Saharaman (aka Geepeem) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 19:53
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 19:53
I do not want to hijack Buckys thread but I want to seek clarification of this for myself in regards the 80 series.
Bucky did not say what the year was of the 80 series he was considering. My understanding is that there were 2 engines in the 80 series:
1HDT built from Jan 90 to Jan 95
1HDTF built from Jan 95 to end of 80 series in 1998.
Is the 1HDTF a lot better engine than the 1HDT as I understand the latter one was a multivalve one.
Thanks to anyone who can clarify this - I posted it here as it may be relevant to Buckys decision as well.
Cheers,
GPM
AnswerID:
350474
Follow Up By: bucky00 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 20:18
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 20:18
It's a 93 model. Thanks for telling me, I thought that they didn't change it until the 100 series.
FollowupID:
618784
Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:25
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:25
Thats right GPM , I think the F in 1HDTF stands for four valves , I'm no expert on 80 series , by my automotive engineer brother is carefully going through his which is the 3rd 80 series variant engine , a non factory turbo , and optimizing it to outperform either of the other versions.
FollowupID:
618798
Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 20:47
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 20:47
Im confused???
Wouldnt 90% of the difference be the tyres and
suspension?
And a car of that age with genuine
suspension and original tyres would probadly handle like a HK holden any way?
AnswerID:
350491
Follow Up By: bucky00 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:01
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:01
With
suspension and tyres, they're both exactly the same, 285/75r16 BFG muds on Sunraysia steel rims with Koni shocks and King springs.
FollowupID:
618795
Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:17
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:17
Surely your not just buying the car for its bitumen handling and power ability alone?
Do you want a Sahara or a Nissan? What else do you want it for?
FollowupID:
618797
Follow Up By: bucky00 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:26
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:26
I would use them for four wheel driving, bush, sand and outback, on the road, for work, for touring and for transport, a little towing. Interior and space, I much prefer the 80, in the bush, both have got their advantages and disadvantes for me.
I probably like the 80 better for those factors overall, but I'm a little unsure about them on the road, my dream would be to have both of them for one hour in my area, that would answer all my questions.
FollowupID:
618799
Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:31
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 21:31
I reckon youve just answered most of your own questions then.
On the road there wouldnt be bugger all difference ( other than tyres and
suspension).
At the risk of starting a huge Nissan/Toyota debate....Most peoples ( in my opinion) reason for buying a Nissan over a Toyota is the price? If this isnt an issue....Id go the 80 series???
FollowupID:
618801
Reply By: Member - Smiley Bill - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 22:20
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 22:20
Hi Bucky,
Buy a car and leave the 4WD at home.
You're trying to talk yourself into doing the impossible mate.
A two tonne plus cruiser and a short wheel base patrol with crap handling, both diesels, are not vehicles designed to keep up with traffic on a flat, straight road let alone roads that are wet most of the time, hilly, curvy and you want to wear mud tyres as well.
Use common sense Bucky, it's horses for courses.
SB
AnswerID:
350502
Follow Up By: bucky00 - Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 22:38
Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 22:38
Don't worry I'm not expecting it to be as good as a 2wd and I can easily live without that.
FollowupID:
618814
Follow Up By: Madfisher - Monday, Feb 23, 2009 at 15:50
Monday, Feb 23, 2009 at 15:50
Bucky mud tyres are often the pits on wet sealed roads, ats are a much better compromise.
Let us know your decision.
Cheers Pete
FollowupID:
618877