Bio Diesel and ZD30

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 25, 2009 at 22:45
ThreadID: 67205 Views:3125 Replies:9 FollowUps:10
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Does anybody have any firsthand experience with useing Bio diesel in a ZD30 Patrol, Either straight or a blend, as I may have a supply available at the right price.

Thanks Ross
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Reply By: Dave(NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 25, 2009 at 23:36

Wednesday, Mar 25, 2009 at 23:36
It would give Nissan a perfect excuse not to warrant your motor if anything happened to it. with a 3lt I wouldn't use it.
Cheers Dave...
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Reply By: Maîneÿ [wa] - Wednesday, Mar 25, 2009 at 23:48

Wednesday, Mar 25, 2009 at 23:48
I use GULL Bio-Diesel in my old Toyota, I believe it thrives on it.
I understand it's about 20% Bio/Diesel

Mainey . . .
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Reply By: psproule - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 06:02

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 06:02
Sounds like Russian Roulette with two chambers loaded. A ZD30 AND Bio Diesel.

No - no experience sorry, but plenty of warning re running it in my DID Paj from a friend that spends all day every day rebuilding injector pumps for a very well known diesel specialist. Don't use it in the rotary pumps or common rails is his strong recommendation. Bio fans will strongly refute and discredit this though. Me - at several $k for a new pump I'll not take the chance thanks. The ZD30 also uses a rotary pump or is common rail in the later ones.

Pat
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Follow Up By: Member - Graeme (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 07:22

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 07:22
DONT! It cost me $4000+ Please speak to repairers of these pumps, as I have done, and be told Bio is a big NO-NO.
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Reply By: jdwynn (Adelaide) - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 07:32

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 07:32
I used 100% BioD for some time with our ZD30. In SA we have SAFF who make BioD to the Aust Standard so (other than a couple of well publicised but one-off problems) you can be fairly sure its good stuff.

There is a lot written about BioD being a solvent and a lubricant. BioD users will mostly vouch for both. My Trol never ran quieter and like oils that should be a good sign (lubricant aspect). It's well known that when you start using BioD you need to replace fuel filter after first tank or two - solvent aspect due to BioD cleaning your fuel system.

Clean fuel system, and a well lubricated motor – sounds good to me. As for any risks – well personally I think greenhouse is a bit of a risk………..

These days my problem is that our Trol is only used for trips and you can rarely get BioD in the bush, so you'd have to replace fuel filter often (and yes we’ve had a clogged filter twice – you must always carry a spare), going from one fuel to the other. So I'm not using BioD much now.

From first hand experience, Nissan attitude to BioD is not good - my personal view is that they have been so vilified due to ZD30 problems that BioD is something they can blame it on. My local Nissan dealer obviously knew nothing about the stuff - came out with all sorts of rubbish. On the other hand though, you can't always be sure BioD not made in someone's back yard - surely a car manufacturers nightmare.
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Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 08:02

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 08:02
Hi All

Read Thread 177241 things might have changed since then.

Cheers
Daza

AnswerID: 356247

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 14:15

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 14:15
Hi Daza,

That thread number doesn't appear to be correct, too many numbers!

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 15:27

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 15:27
Geoff

Try thread 34696, I put the Answer ID Number,on the reply, thats
what I get from Diesel Sniffing lol lol.
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 16:31

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 16:31
Hi Daza,
Easy enough done mate!

That post on Bio Diesel was an interesting read!

The bloke I work with has a Toureg 5cyl diesel, one of the first base models made.

It's got about 120,000 kms on it with about 80% of them done on B100 from Australian Bio-Diesel Industries here in Newcastle.

He's only had one fuel filter block and that was because the drum he had at the time had once had moisture in it and had a propensity to develop small rust flakes!

Apparently the Toureg manual specifically mentions the use of Bio-Diesel and its only warning is fuel gelling at extremely low temperatures.

There is apparently an option in Europe to order the Toureg with electrically heated fuel lines to get around the gelling!

Geoff

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Reply By: Member - Bentaxle - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 16:45

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 16:45
Rosss
I can remember reading an article on this subject Bio-diesel in a ZD30 Patrol and it was stated while the donk will run happly the injector pump does not like it and using it, even B20, can lead to expensive repairs. Personally I wouldn't risk it.
Mike
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Reply By: Member - 1/2A - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 17:33

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 17:33
If it's the first time you are going to use bio-diesel make sure you have a spare fuel filter. A friend of mine had to wait 2 days for a new filter after he filed up with bio-diesel.
Arthur
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Reply By: jdwynn (Adelaide) - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 19:36

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 19:36
Regarding comments above, a spare fuel filter needs to be carried always with BioD IMO – not just for first tank.

Fuel companies vary the base product of BioD depending on conditions. They were using a Canola based BioD blend in winter because of low cloud point (minus 5 °C I think). But due to drought Canola got expensive and so for summer BioD they were using Tallow based Bio – think cloud point could be plus 5° C. So if you were to drive to an alpine area or experience a chill over summer you could easily get caught.

We had a blocked filter in early February last year. Just one cold morning did it (fuel company paid for a new filter because it occurred due to circumstances and not due to gunk in the system). Bottom line is if you want to use BioD, these issues can easily occur. So carry a spare filter and if you’re going somewhere cold, dilute with normal diesel or use up Bio first and then fill with normal diesel.
AnswerID: 356406

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 20:25

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 20:25
Hi jd,

You make some excellent points here regarding feedstock for Bio-Diesel plants and the variations forced upon them.

I do a fair bit of work for a local margarine plant and edible oil bottler, (yep Bio-Diesels opposition) at the moment they are paying about $5,000 a tonne for new Canola!

What that means is the Bio-Diesel plants cannot at the moment afford new Canola as feedstock for their diesel production.

The above price would put Bio-Diesel at about $5 a litre without the processing cost to turn it into diesel!

Now days they are grabbing most any second hand oil they can to keep their plants running!

My thoughts are to buy from a Bio-Diesel plant that openly proclaims their product is made to the Australian Standard for Bio-Diesel.

Geoff

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Follow Up By: jdwynn (Adelaide) - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 20:35

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 20:35
Crikey Geoff, $5,000 a tonne - that puts things in perspective.
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 20:38

Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 20:38
Sure does, that was straight out of the Production Managers mouth.

It might be worse, he didn't specify a currency. Sometimes there stuff is traded in US dollars.

I know their Palm and Olive Oil's are.

Geoff

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Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 00:11

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 00:11
Interesting stuff this Bio-Diesel, the following is a C & P from Toyota's Australian website,


Can I use Biodiesel Fuel Blends in my Toyota?

Toyota and its Fuel Injection Equipment suppliers encourage the future development of fuels based on renewable energy sources.

However, with regards to biodiesel fuels, there are no mandated Standards as currently apply to mainstream fuels.

Toyota will endorse biodiesel fuel blends using FAME (Fatty Acid Methyl Esters that comply with either EN14214 or ASTM D6751 standards) of up to 5% volume concentration when mixed with conventional diesel fuel. The final product B5 (5% Biodiesel blend) at the pump must conform to the national Diesel Fuel Standard which is based on EN590.

In the absence of biodiesel fuel standards and due to the many variations of biodiesel fuel blends under production in our market, such as B20 & B30 (biodiesel blend 20% & 30%) Toyota is not in a position to evaluate the long term effect that these varied biodiesel fuel blends will have on engine overall performance, fuel injection equipment durability, fuel economy and exhaust emission compliance.

Accordingly, Toyota cannot recommend concentration of biodiesel fuel blends greater than 5% volume as mentioned above.

This statement is provided to inform Toyota owners of Toyota's position with regard to the use of biodiesel fuels in its products and also serves to confirm that Toyota New Vehicle Warranty will not apply to any failures that are attributable to the use of such fuels.


Geoff,
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Follow Up By: Horacehighroller - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 00:25

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 00:25
The statement from toyota is misleading/false.

"However, with regards to biodiesel fuels, there are no mandated Standards as currently apply to mainstream fuels."

There is in fact an Australian standard for Biodiesel. It is more stringent than either the European or US standards.

Is it possible that the Toyota statement predates the Australian Standard (ie. Feb 2006? I think!)

Peter
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 00:39

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 00:39
Hi Peter,

I do agree with you on the subject of the information being at best misleading.

The Australian standard for Bio-Diesel is in fact more stringent than it is for hydrocarbon diesel! (Funny about that! I often wonder what part the oil companies played in the decision!)

You are very probably correct in your statement regarding the dates of Toyota's post.

The big problem is that information is their official corporate policy.

Geoff
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Follow Up By: jdwynn (Adelaide) - Saturday, Mar 28, 2009 at 21:53

Saturday, Mar 28, 2009 at 21:53
Guys, thought you'd be interested, it was announced in paper this morning that SAFF has gone into administration.

Site Link

Has been a good supplier. Disappointing to say the least. Wonder what the future holds in terms of the product?

Cheers
JD
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