Rust proofing a new 4x4 ?

Submitted: Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 at 23:55
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what are the opinions on rust proofing a new 4x4.

I was offered rust proofing as an optional extra but always believed this was smoke and mirrors to gouge more money by dealers.

If I needed rustproofing in the past it was fishoil by the bucket load.

Has anyone any experience of the new electronic systems ?

I have been using lanolin spray on other equipment and find it both good and better smelling than the good old fish oil :-)

I am open to suggestions. Do modern cars need anything extra or are they ok to start with ?
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Reply By: ozwasp - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 00:50

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 00:50
You can buy fish oil in spray cans at super cheap and other auto shops.

Just put on a nozzle extension and do it all yourself - the rust proofing done professionally does the same thing

Personally I don't think there's any substitute for rinsing your 4wd's undercarriage and any where else after being on the beach and to keep the drain holes in your doors free from garbage.
AnswerID: 356492

Reply By: oldfart1953 - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 01:28

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 01:28
I cant claim credit for this .....it was written by the guru Collyn Rivers & I sort of borrowed it from another website.......

quote

I ran a six year trial of this in conjunction with Endrust, reporting the results in the CMCA's magazine and elsewhere - from about 1998 - 2004.

I did it by using four otherwise identical strips of unprotected steel, two attached in electrical contact with my then OKA's chassis - and two isolated from it by a 25 mm thick bar of nylon. The OKA spent most of that time exposed to the elements at our home about 300 metres from the Indian ocean (and directly exposed to it) at our home north of Broome.

I reported on the results from time to time.

I found evidence that the device works to a point. There was a marked difference in rusting between the protected and the unprotected strips. The protected strips were interesting in that they quickly built up a light brown coating that could readily be wiped off by a Kleenex and stayed like that throughout the trial period. The unprotected strips were severely pitted. There was a difference in weight before and after of an averaged 3.7% (+/- 0.5%).

Endrust's claims were modest: only that the device retarded rusting (but made it clear it did not not prevent it) by a factor of about 3:1 and that it is best used where convenventional rust proofing techniques cannnot practicably be used (as for example old Toyota Coasters etc).

Other vendors have made much stronger claims - to the point that the US authorities took action about 15 years ago - and at that level the technique cannot be taken seriously. But I would not see it as a scam - unless claims way in excess of what I found are made for it.

What is interesting - and is noted by most people who use the devices - is that the vehicle paintwork 'blooms' when the dvice is switched. This is very noticeable - but I'm quite unclear what if anything this implies.

Summarising - it's probably worth thinking about for a very old vehicle as it may extend its life for a few more years, but rust proofing techniques are now so much better on today's vehicles that I doubt if it's worth it for new vehicles.

The technique is quite old and its in the public domain. The device is easy enough to build by anyone sufficiently into electronics (like my old ETI readers?). It essentially applies a pulsed capacitive charge at a fairly high voltage.

For people wishing to delve further there are several academically rigorous published tests of these units by seriously heavy testing authorities. They report results very similar to mine qualitatively, but also quantify what they found.

I recollect that Endrust in Geraldton also did a lot of work in this area (and as they are into all aspects of corrosion protection they have no reason for bias). I recollect to that they came to similar conclusions:

'It works to a point but if there is a conventional way that's to be preferred'.
Collyn Rivers
end quote
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Reply By: Krakka - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 06:16

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 06:16
I believe 100s L/Cruiser body panels are galvanised or have some similar coating, mine is coming up for 7 years old and no sign of rust. Have some stone chips, and deep ones with no sign of rust. Also had an ERPS system fitted from new, so don't know if that has any effect.

Regards

Krakka
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Reply By: Big Woody - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 07:14

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 07:14
I have the commercial version of the ERPS fitted to my 18 year old 80 Series. This has been fitted for the life of the vehicle.
I have never seen an 80 series with as much rust as mine.
It has some huge breakouts in weird places like A pillars, C pillars, tailgate, wheelarches, roof etc.
The post above mentions blooming of the paint. Ha! Mine barely has a shiny spot left on the paint. Normally the flat panels go off on the early 80's but mine has milky powdery paint all over including the side panes and doors etc.

Would I ever fit an electronic system for prevention of rust again?
What do you reckon?

I believe professionally applied chemical protection of some form when the vehicle is brand new is the only way to go. The problem is the vehicles are much more resistant to rust than 20-30 years ago and people turn over their vehicles more frequently and are unlikely to ever keep the vehicle long enough to benefit from paying for rust protection when new.

my 2 cents.


BW
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Follow Up By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 09:47

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 09:47
I concur,
My 105 has an early erps fitted and it has terminal rust through the roof rack channels, inside if the rear doors on the main body, both sills, and inner sills, the front drivers side guard is missing the bottom completely, holes in the floor near the main fuel tank, fuel tank bash plates have holes in them, holes in chassis, towbar rusted badly, rust in some doors around where the windows slide up and down and of course around the windscreen.
Aparently the "paddles" that are placed around the body are linked in series and this makes a positive charge through them. This actually promotes rust. The system needs to make a negative charge to slow rust formation. I got this info from the bloke (name witheld) that developed them. He said to disconnect it before the car falls to bits. So I did. (do speed holes make it faster and use less fuel because of less drag?..LOL)

It isn't the brown cruiser in the rig pic but my white one.
Cant beat a really good clean after use.
If you are going to fish oil or similar, please ensure that all plases that you intend to spray are spotless and dry before spraying or it will trap dirt and water promoting rust.

Cheers
Dave
Cheers,
Dave
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Follow Up By: Krakka - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 14:13

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 14:13
Dave, are you the original owner from new? Sounds like an excessive amount of rust. Mine is also a 105 late 2002 and don't have any rust.
Regards
Krakka
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Follow Up By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 14:16

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 14:16
No I'm not and it had an endrust or similar browny colour stuff sprayed in it when new. Thats why the doors themselves haven't rusted out in the bottoms.
Cheers,
Dave
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Follow Up By: Krakka - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 20:31

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 20:31
I was only asking cos you have no idea what has happened to the car before you bought it. Could have been submerged in saltwater and had the doors replaced, or something equally silly.

Krakka
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Follow Up By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:53

Monday, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:53
I doubt it has been submerged as none of the bolts or other steel inside the vehicle even under the dash has rust to any unusual degree on them.
Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 09:28

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 09:28
"smoke and mirrors to gouge more money by dealers"

You've got it in one. That's why the prettiest girl in the dealer gets that job.
AnswerID: 356531

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 13:37

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 13:37
:-) Marketing !!!! you have to love it !!!

It's my thread so I am taking it off topic.

2 marketing stories

Sitting on St Kilda beach some years ago there was a hire boat rental next to us the guy was just sitting there not doing any business at all.

All of a sudden he hands over to a pretty young thing in a bikini and she takes over renting out the hire boats. As soon as he leaves she takes off her bikini top and sits down. within minutes there is a line of blokes queuing up to "Rent Boats" from her.

Next 2 young hairdressing graduates in Sydney many years ago just finished their apprenticeships and looking at a lifetime working as hairdressers for a good but basic wage.

The manage to borrow a few thousand bucks and rent a shop in Sydney they paint the doors and windows so no one can see in and start a topless male hairdressing salon. When a normal haircut by a barber was $5 they were charging $25 for the same cut and had a queue of customers all day long. They worked for 5 years and retired to live a comfortable life on their investments.


Exploitation at it's best !
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 20:46

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 20:46
In Adelaide, the pretty girls selling the extras keep their tops on to exercise the buyers imagination :-)

Fishoil has always been great stuff for the serious rust. Saved my my older Landcruisers, 180B's, etc from the wreckers.

The 1970's Landcruisers (FJ55) got rust in about 3 years;
The 1980's Landcruisers (60series) took 10-15 years
The 1990's Landcruisers (80series) don't have much rust
And if the 2000's Landcruisers are rusty, they either came out of a mine, or lived on the beach.
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 20:54

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 20:54
Back in the 70s I had an old HZ Kingswood wagon that I towed a diving boat with. if you remember the doors and back gate of the kingswood wagons were infamous for rusting out.

I pulled it apart as best I could and drenched it in fish oil the good old stinky stuff, in summer. It was rank for about 2 weeks but never ever rusted. and it had a lot of salt water sloshing about in it for quite a few years.
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Reply By: takenbyaliens (QLD member) - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 13:26

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 13:26
I have it on my Paj. They quickly back away from what they say about it stopping rust after I asked a few questions a couple of years after fitted. Pity I didn't ask them when I bought the car and had it fitted...yep, you got it pretty girl!!! Waste of money!!
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Reply By: Member - Howard T (QLD) - Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 14:22

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 14:22
I have had a counteract rust proofing device on my Series 80 Cruiser since 1999.
About 3 year ago I discovered rust under the back window (apparently common with these vehicles).
I also found pretty terminal rust on the firewall which runs right across the passenger side.
I rang counteract who at first carried on a bit and then sent me a new device. Never bothered putting it on.
I must admit thoug until a few years ago the paint work was very good but its now starting to powder.
I would never use one again. Am about to purchase a new Prado and I will be looking at the old and trusted methods.

Cheers

Howard
AnswerID: 356583

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 14:51

Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 14:51
What do you use for the "Old and trusted methods" ?

Oil sprays ?
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