GPS help

Submitted: Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 12:37
ThreadID: 6750 Views:2685 Replies:9 FollowUps:25
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Reply By: Janset - Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 14:01

Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 14:01
Thanks Niko.
Not as this time, but please keep offering on a regular basis as we get new readers all the time who may need your help.

AnswerID: 28734

Follow Up By: michael - Friday, Aug 29, 2003 at 19:35

Friday, Aug 29, 2003 at 19:35
can you tell me where i can get gps lat and long readings for nsw aust?

ie; lat and long positions for different towns
FollowupID: 20701

Follow Up By: Janset - Friday, Aug 29, 2003 at 20:40

Friday, Aug 29, 2003 at 20:40
Hi Michael.

Go to Dick Smiths. I purchased a book with GPS readings for localities from there for about $12.

Works well for me.

FollowupID: 20710

Reply By: Member - Neil (N.S.W.) - Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 17:32

Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 17:32
hi Niko,
Just posted a note then saw urs. Im looking at a emap garmin priced$540 thru op/lock not looking at a laptop later but maybe software for com for waypoint down load to gps and printing of maps is this the way to go or not. Also any other price variations most welcome. GONE WOOP-WOOP
AnswerID: 28766

Follow Up By: Niko - Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 18:03

Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 18:03
The Emap is one of the cheapest mapping units around. It is the biggest seller of mapping units. The upload download software can be just the mapsource worldmap which does just that and allow you to plot waypoints either clicking the mouse on an area of the map or by typing in the exact co-ords. The only problem is the basic map within any Garmin or Magellan is not accurate and could be out by a kilometre. The mapsource CD that has accurate maps is the metroguide. It works well with the Emap but you will also need a memory stick and a download cable. Additional items like a car mount and cigarette lighter cable ought to be considered. If you are keen to acquire an Emap and the whole lot cheaply then click on the link.


The printing of maps is questionable, I am not aware of what type of maps you want to print, that is to say, to what level of detail. Let me know.
FollowupID: 20005

Follow Up By: BurnieM - Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 20:34

Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 20:34
I was going to say this was a reasonable price for this bundle.

However, I note that all your Garmins have a US basemap.
I understand that this is not an issue if an Australian mapping product is also purchased.
It may be an issue if purchasers only get the basic unit and do not realise how poor the US basemap is in Australia.

Also, when I compare your units pricing to Johnny Appleseeds pricing I note that you are $5-10 more expensive per unit.
I would have expected direct sourced US units to be cheaper than GME sourced units.

JA sells his units with Australian basemaps.

Burnie M
US market GPS V with Metroguide Australia
FollowupID: 20032

Reply By: Eric - Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 22:08

Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 22:08
I have tryed to set up a radio modem to transmit gps coordinates over a uhf cb, the intention is to place my position as a way piont in the other vehicles gps and vice versa, this is to stop us crashing into each other when driving at night without lights. No we are not terorists just tracking wild animals. Any ideas? Eric.
AnswerID: 28794

Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 23:47

Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 23:47
Eric, the gps cannot do this standalone. You'll need a laptop running a prg like ui-view which is amateur radio software. A com port for the gps and one for the modem, a correct cable connection between the modem and radio, configure the software and bobs your uncle.

I don't think it's strictly legal on CB but thats not my concern.
FollowupID: 20046

Follow Up By: Niko - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 00:30

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 00:30
Thanks Mad Dog, never seen that web site before. HAM operators in Australia may or may not have a frequency dedicated to this concept. Portable HF radios? Got $2,000 handy? I advise you look for an Aussie HAM forum to get answers regarding this UK system.

In using UHF I would advise contacting GME in Sydney (02 9844 6666)and speak to the Telemetry product manager regarding the TX3600D as a data transceiver and communicate as a two way. It is used in their Telemetry systems (switching pumps on and off etc) and is the closest you will get to sending data over UHF.

When you transmit your position over the airwaves your radio cannot receive, thus producing a timelag and the more people you have the longer/slower the update is, and information for each vehicle has to be received one at a time. Your concept has no set protocol like networked computers do and transmissions will be clashing all the time. As long as you are a few kilometres apart and travelling at a slow speed like 40km/hr you should be able to observe movements by others with enough time to avoid them. I dare say you will have an uphill battle to resolve this problem. My suggestion is infrared goggles ;)
FollowupID: 20048

Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 10:19

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 10:19
Niko, this is not a concept, it is reality. It does not matter, HF, VHF or UHF the principle is the same. Hams worldwide have been using packet radio for a longtime now on all bands and GPRS is just an extension of this. The ax25 protocol has been in existence for some time now. With slow baud rates any radio can be used but dedicated data radios are required for high speeds.

I do agree that in a confined paddock timing would be of some concern.

FollowupID: 20061

Reply By: Niko - Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 23:51

Friday, Aug 22, 2003 at 23:51
Because of the USA Basemap the eMap bundle is offered, along with Vista and Legend GPS. There are people out there who want a decent map that is going to give people more than the Aussie basemap's 5 streets in Melbourne or Sydney and more than 3 streets in Perth, they also want better accuracy than the 200 to 1,000 metres the Australian basemap is inaccurate by. These are the people I help.

With regard to your friend JA, I am not in a position to discuss their discounts from GME. My bundle prices cannot be equaled by authorised GME dealers, however, my dealers can.

If you compare any price against JA on the net you will get some variance at some stage due to GME changing it's pricing. I am not privy to when these changes occur. Also, with the recent surge in the Aussie dollar prices on Garmin and Magellan products in Australia have dropped as well, therefore, prices have been volatile of late.

If you note JA is selling the Geko301 for $485, whilst downunderpilotshop and I sell it for $459. What it comes down to is keeping up with the joneses and in this case JA and downunder are the ones I try to follow. If you read what Neil said you will see that $451 for an eMap is a lot cheaper than the $540 price offered by Opp/Lock.

You are correct, USA basemaps with Australia in it only show the outline of Australia. That is why my bundle price is so cheap to compensate for that and make it more affordable for everyone. And if anyone saw the Aussie basemap versus the metroguide that the eMap uses, people would think nothing of buying the eMap bundle when they effectively get almost every single street in Australia for a little more and metroguide includes the upload download waypoint manager.

Also, if anyone wanted to buy an eMap from JA and upload download their favourite 500 waypoints they would need to purchase at least the Mapsource Worldmap CD from him that costs almost the same as an "eMap and metroguide only" from me. You will also need a datacard and data-cable to complete the task.

If you ever decide to import a GPS from USA you will find that you will get a few dollars out of it in savings, however, if it failed you will have to send it back to USA or Taiwan. This will cost you more than buying one from a GME dealer.

All importers have to pay for freight, support, employees wages, rent, insurance, liabilty. I have no intention of offering prices that are excessive or push the minimum as this is unsound business. Next time you go to a GME dealer and tell him what JA is selling Garmin for, see what kind of reaction you will get, it won't be pretty!

In the end what it comes down to is this, if you want the full benefits of what a GPS can do like the eMap, an eMap on it's own is wasted; go for the bundle! If anyone wants to make up their own custom bundle, let me know and I will ensure best price possible. So, in effect I supply GPS at good pricing and provide good advice free in this site!
AnswerID: 28805

Follow Up By: albert - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 00:07

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 00:07
I have a Magellan Meridian but it only has the basic Australian map that you speak of. Can you tell me which is the best way to improve this and if it includes the purchase of "Discover AUS", what is the process for uploading this onto the Meridian? I do not currently own any GPS related software.
FollowupID: 20047

Follow Up By: Niko - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 00:57

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 00:57

Discover Aus CD is the way to go, something you can purchase from this site. You will need a PC cable, if one wasn't supplied, and an SD datacard. The map is stored on the datacard and not the GPS, the same goes for the Garmin. Waypoints are stored on the GPS and not on the datacards for Magellan and Garmin. As a guide the 16MB datacard will allow you to store one state, whilst 32MB should get almost the whole of Australia.

Uploading is easily followed by reading up on the help file supplied with Discover Aus CD. If you have any difficulty let me know.
FollowupID: 20050

Follow Up By: BurnieM - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 10:20

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 10:20
It is 234MB to load all of Australia from the DiscoverAus CD.

GPSoz link
FollowupID: 20062

Follow Up By: Niko - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 10:55

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 10:55
Garmin requires 36MB to install all of Australia
FollowupID: 20063

Follow Up By: BurnieM - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:02

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:02
Garmins Mapsource Metroguide Australia is 48MB for all of Australia.
NSW is 16MB.

I believe that Mapsource City Navigator Australia is 44MB.

I have both Mapsource Metroguide Australia and Magellans DiscoverAus on my PC here.
FollowupID: 20065

Follow Up By: Niko - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:10

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:10
If you are correct then my source from GME was incorrect, thanks.
FollowupID: 20068

Reply By: BurnieM - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 10:13

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 10:13
Niko, you have some very good points.
However I would still expect your pricing to be sharper.

What are your turn around times for warranty on the US basemap units ?

I agree that the Mapsource Metroguide Australia mapping product is excellent and well worth the $235.

I must correct your comment that you need Mapsource to load waypoints, routes and tracklogs. There are many free software products available and all you need is a $25 data cable. I use G7ToWin
AnswerID: 28812

Follow Up By: BurnieM - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 10:18

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 10:18
I have no relationship with Johnny Appleseed.

The JA pricing is not alone with C H Smithin Melbourne and Whitworthsin Sydney also offering good pricing that is close to JA.

Note that this pricing is still far from the US pricing (allowing for Australian taxes).
FollowupID: 20060

Follow Up By: Niko - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:05

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:05
Yes, you are correct, there are a number of programs available, including waypoint+ and GarfieldPro etc. Garfield Pro you pay for but waypoint+ is free. However, the programmer of waypoint+ and other freebies do not gaurantee their product to work with all GPS.

The pricing by JA is the lowest you will find on the internet or as a street price by a GME dealer, and considering they are GME's largest dealer, it understandable they have the best discounts available to them. Their pricing is still far from US pricing but as I said before, GME have to support Garmin and being a 200 plus employee company, they have very large overheads.
FollowupID: 20066

Follow Up By: Niko - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:11

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:11
Warranty is dependant on stock availability and worst case is 10 days
FollowupID: 20069

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:33

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:33

why are aussie prices more than double what it costs overseas? How dumb do the companies think people are, adn why are they pist when someone imports one from USA to save themselves $100's??
AnswerID: 28817

Follow Up By: Niko - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:58

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 11:58
Here is an example. The Geko101 is priced in USA at a discount store for $95US. You then have to pay $40US for freight (Fedex). Based on the Aussie dollar you divide the figure by 65 cents. This equates to $207.69AU. Then you pay 10% for GST. Toatl for the import $228.50

The cheapest price for a Geko101 in Australia from a GME dealer is $229.

Ok, another example, the eMap. $170US. $40US freight. This equates to $323.07AU. However, because you paid for an item more than $300 you have to pay duty of 5%. Plus 10% GST. You also have to pay approximately $50 to Fedex in addition to the 5% to the duty. Why? I do not know. Total cost? $423.15AU. I do not see where the $100s of dollars in savings are!!

Even if you reduced the freight by half from USA, the fact of the matter is GME has to maintain a decent margin to provide the best support they traditionally offer. Most of these discount shops in USA deal with Garmin direct and in the end you will have to pay for it to go back if it breaks.

FollowupID: 20076

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 12:07

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 12:07
Im talkin Magellans specifically.

I imported a platinum for a mate, and saved him 1/2 retail price too.

Another mate just imported 5 colors, with 256 card, mounts the lot, and saved himself $500 including post and freight and insurance EACH..

Mate last week imported a magellan Meridian, and got it for couple of hundred $. Saved $100s.

Dont say it cant be done. It has to be profit. I feel sorry for those without the internet that cant shop from USA> YOu see Aussies trying to sell their ones second hand here to update for more than you can get new ones from USA with all the accessories.

Yes I do think they are cheaper from O/S.. Ive done it, and 80% of people buying them do it too.

You get it marked as a gift and dont pay any duty.

FollowupID: 20078

Reply By: UB.1 - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 12:14

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 12:14
Hello all

I recently priced a Garmin Street Pilot III at several "dealers" in Australia. For what I wanted: SPIII, 128MB memory card, City Navigator Australia and MetroGuide Australia full versions of both, Quotes ranged from $2700 - $3200!!!

I contacted GME Australia, the distributors about the price discrepancy between Australia and the USA and basically they couldn't have cared less. They didn't even attempt to explain the difference (about $A100) in the map software pricing EVEN THOUGH IT'S MADE IN AUSTRALIA, then shipped to the USA and back again. Why this software is nearly $A100 cheaper from the USA is totally beyond me.

A reputable dealer in the states supplied the lot delivered to my door for $A1855.24. That's a minimum saving of $844. For that I can almost import another unit.

Is it any wonder that we buy overseas?

It's about time Garmin got their act together and gave us a reasonable price. I for one wouldn't mind paying a 15% premium (for argument sake) on the US street prices not RRP which no one in the US pays unless they're mugs.

The unit I have was actually made in Taiwan. So figure the shipping costs.

The only drawback is that Garmin claim that they won't warrant the overseas purchase if anything goes wrong in Australia. I'd like to see them try that in court as my lawyer says they don't have a leg to stand on. Seiko lost that battle years ago over watches bought overseas while Australians were on holiday.
AnswerID: 28821

Follow Up By: BurnieM - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 16:18

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 16:18
I agree the US pricing v Australian pricing just does not make sense.

I am a little surprised at your Australiian quotes tho. You can get an Australian basemap SPIII from Johnny Appleseed with 128MB card, City Navigator Aus and Metroguide Aus for AU$2145.

The mapping CDs are actually made in the US altho most of the cost is licensing fees that go to Sensis (a Telstra owned company).

I agree that the 1 year warranty stands in Aus and even GME will if you push them.

A couple of months ago GPScity were about to setup in Adelaide to sell US sourced Garmin and Magellan units at near US prices. After significant 'communication' from the Australian distributors their US suppliers had words and their Australian operation disappeared.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to send corespondence direct to the US offices of Garmin and Magellan.
FollowupID: 20086

Follow Up By: Niko - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 17:54

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 17:54
What a can of worms I have opened up!!! But it is good to see people are expressing their views and I am enjoying the open chatter on an important issue. I am an authorised Magellan dealer in Australia but I have no intention of becoming a GME dealer.

JA are now selling the STP3 at $1,790 which includes a 64MB data card and city navigator. My prices for the STP3 with 128MB data Card and both City Navigator is $2,079. It is good to see people are informed but many people prefer to deal with someone in Australia, some prefer only to deal with someone with a shop front. That is where Australian business hope to keep selling these products and providing a local service. Don't get me wrong, if you feel you are ripped off, then by doing what you do and that is buy direct from USA is showing GME and Magellan Australia that is what you feel. If JA decided to buy direct from USA as of tomorrow it would put a big bump in GME's sales. GME are aware of this and it is somewhat of a tight rope for them.

Garmin are aware of the problem and basically can do very little about it except setup shop in Australia. Same goes for Thales (they own Magellan) they could decide to take the distributorship off of Magellan Australia (Private company) and distribute directly.

The question of law regarding individual importing as opposed to parallel importing for resale is an area I have no idea on. I would like to think that GME are required by law to accept warranty issues under either of these circumstances. The point about Samsung may be true for an individual but for a parallel importer, I think may be a different issue as they become an unofficial distributor/reseller.

If it wasn't for GME I would say the mapping units would still have the USA base map and that tidal info on some of their new GPS would still be irrelevant for Australia.

If buying with your feet makes changes to the questinable prices from GME dealers then walk the walk and talk the talk cos that's the only way Garmin is going to realise that they are part of the globalisation trend.
I thought that Garmin GPS was sent to USA before being sent to Australia. However, when GME acquired some FF80s from the Taiwan shipment intended for WALMART it was clear this was not the case.

I still contend that GME has high overheads and in part believe this is the reason for the higher price dealt to dealers.

GME and Magellan go to every Major Marine Expo, many minor marine shows, have one employee for software support and a product manager for GPS products alone. They also have to produce their own brochures and pay someone to add GPS products to their web site. Shipment to and from each state is expensive, something an importer does not have to pay. They send people overseas for product seminars and interstate. You may feel ripped off but I think GME/Magellan feel it is necessary to provide the support you expect from them.

Everything is manufactured in Taiwan including the CDs. The same goes for Speedos. They use to be made here is Australia, but now are made in Asia all because people want cheaper at the cost of Aussie jobs. The same goes for most electronic products, it all goes to Taiwan etc to be manufactured.
FollowupID: 20089

Follow Up By: BurnieM - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 18:12

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 18:12
I do wonder about the GME margins.

At the Sydney Boat Show I was offered a monochrome GPSmap176 with a Sydney area Bluechart on a 8MB card for $1000.

The best I saw on this combination anywhere else was $1090 + $169 = $1259

Obvoiusly there is the Taiwan base price and then old/end of model runouts etc but there also seems to be a large margin where GME can change the pricing at it's discrestion. I believe that even at this lower price a reasonable profit was still made by both GME and the dealer (Hunts Marine).
FollowupID: 20090

Follow Up By: BurnieM - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 18:15

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 18:15
Perhaps GME did have some effect on the basemaps but it appears Garmin did not put in a lot of effort; the Australian basemaps appear to be identical to Mapsource Worldmap.

Errors in the Worldmap product have been documented in a number of other forums.
FollowupID: 20091

Follow Up By: Niko - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 18:48

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 18:48
That is where the Australian basemap comes from, the Mapsource worldmap CD. Within GME there is no definitive answer as to why the Australian basemap being so crappy. If the error was consistant in respect of eastern and northings being 200 metres out of whack in the metro areas you would accept it being a transformation error from a pre WGS84 Datum to WGS84. However, it isn't a consistant error where in some areas you are looking at being up to a kilometre out. Many customers of mine have complained of this inaccuracy to the extent where they believe they have been ripped off. This is the reason I heavily promote the metroguide because it is simply fantastic!

At boat shows they reduce the price because everyone else does. It is expected of the dealer to reduce their margin as well.

I would like to know what forums give deeper info on the reasons for the inaccuracy.
FollowupID: 20092

Follow Up By: BurnieM - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 19:04

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 19:04
I do not know the source of the basemap/Worldmap data or the reasons for tne inaccuracys just that many people have complained about it in many fourms.

In the northern suburbs of Sydney the Pacific Highway crosses over the railway line and is 700 metres out.
Some people have suggested that perhaps they used old data but in this case the main road north out of the biggest city in Australia has never been in this position.

I agree that Mapsource Metroguide Australia is an excellent street mapping product.
FollowupID: 20093

Reply By: UB.1 - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 17:13

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 17:13
Hello Burnie M

From memory JA came in at $2300. This was some months ago before Garmin's price reduction.
AnswerID: 28834

Reply By: Niko - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 18:39

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 18:39
Just a note, GME can't import on the "gift" basis to save themselves 15% and the $50 additional duty costs.

AnswerID: 28840

Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 20:16

Saturday, Aug 23, 2003 at 20:16
Yes but I doubt if they pay USA retail prices to start with???Hooroo
FollowupID: 20100

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