Why I hate split rims!

Submitted: Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 22:56
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My daughter bought an 80series standard last week. It has the original split rims. Two days later and we drove it to a friends place in Adelaide and came out to find a rear tyre totally flat. Changed the tyre and I took it apart this afternoon.

To take it apart, I had to work a bead breaker the full 360 degrees of the rim. And because the tyre was a LT235/85 it wouldn't sit down, so I had to chock the bead to have enough clearance to prise the split part off. Then after that had to turn it over and again work the beadbreaker because I couldn't get the second bead off with shear Blundstones!

So after 40 minutes, it was all apart. I couldn't see an obvious leak, so inflated the tube, sprayed with soapy water and the puncture was a seam split of the Korean tube. That was why I gave up on splits 15 years ago.

I've found a mate who's keen to hand over a set of 6" Prado rims, so the 235's will be going tubeless next week.

Cheers
Phil
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Reply By: Member - Mick O (VIC) - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:01

Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:01
Amen Phil,

we lost quite a bit of time last trip with changing the splits and tubes on Scott's troopy. Nothing like a ten minute turnaround with a tubeless and a plug. If badly staked, the tubless can still be patched and a tube used if need be. Makes sense to me.

Cheers Mick
''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:08

Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:08
Gday Mick,

Its a myth that splits are easy to fix. Always seems to take an hour at beer o'clock and thats after someone's spent 30 minutes doing the tyre change.

I like plugs too, but even if you want to patch a tubeless tyre, its easier and quicker than a split. Break two beads, lever the outer one off, and do the patch. Lever it back on and inflate straight off the pump.

Cheers
Phil
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 13:41

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 13:41
depends how much practice youve had.

at the end of feild season the geos took some industry people on a feild trip. this involved stopping off at certain places for a bit of a look see and a talk on it.

i walked past one of the clients utes and saw it was going down.

i wipped the wheel off and while it was on the jack fixed the punture , blew it up and back on. he returned to the vehicle and didnt even know he had a flat.

The longest part about fixing a flat with rags was pulling the stakes out as they had to be dug out with an awl or small screwdriver. with a radial it is quite easy.

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Reply By: Richard Kovac - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:03

Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:03
Come on Phil.. :-)

You need to get fit.. Even with my bung hip I can change one in 15 mins.

then again maybe I'm just getting better at it..

Cheers

Richard

I will be putting on some Goodyear Silent Armours (on the splits) after easter, as they don't make road grippers type "s" anymore, I hope they are as good.
AnswerID: 358263

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:21

Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:21
Richard,
You think I'm just stirring...hehe.......but this split hadn't been touched for a couple of years and was a bit stuck. And it takes 15minutes for the glue to go tacky while you have a breather......

But I ride a bike to work these days, and I reckon changing one split took more out of me than riding to work and back.

I traded my 4 Silent Armours for the 5 Prado wheels. The Silent Armours did 44,000k of outback trips with one sidewall stake and no chipping and had 8mm tread left. Hope you get a good run too. Poor old Davoe hasn't forgiven me for suggesting MTRs a few years back.
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:29

Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:29
So Phil, what are you running now?

Richard
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:38

Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:38
I felt like a change and found a set of 16x8 mags, so have a set of 285/75R16 Bridgestone LT D694's.

I'll probably get a set of 235/85's on my old rims sometime in the future for desert trips.
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic) - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 08:09

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 08:09
Phil, it was good to go off splits here but they bought a Hilux here with splits last year, a 3 L naturally aspirated roughie and it has splits. It has more than it's share of flats, but will get some wide rims on for winter I am sure which will be better.
Cheers,
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Follow Up By: Member - Steve M (SA) - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 14:05

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 14:05
Hi Phil

I'm still running MTR's as per your recommendation with no problems (to date), albeit my trips are not cross country as some of yours are.

I think that you must have forgotten that you were in Adelaide with the flat - what's wrong with the RAA to repair a tyre? :-)

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Reply By: get outmore - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:05

Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:05
well i could say i hate yubeless because i just said bye bye to my 5th or 6 th (Ive lost count) goodyear MTR on friday and now they are $360 a pop

seriosly looking at reshoding my splits ( not with tubes r us ) with rags again

the tubeless venture for me has proven VERY expensive close to 2 grand so far in replacement tyres.

as far as breaking the beads POP with tyrepliers 235s or not
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:11

Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:11
Hehehe
Davoe, a tyre thread is not complete without you, me and Willem!
Do you hate your MTRs as much as you hated your Toyos?
Cheers mate!
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Follow Up By: Member - Mick O (VIC) - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:18

Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:18
Dave,

Unfortunately with the routes I travel, I expect to write off a set of tyres on just about every trip. That's the price you pay. Besides at $16-20 a pop for something colourful with a umbrella sticking out the top, 2 grand wouldn't even cover the grog bill on a two week cruise or similar lol!

Now tyre Guru's, how do those Toyo's go? I've just heard about the mightely expensive mud terrain Toyos which apparently have a rather thick sidewall. Are they any good? I looked at them (brouchure only) but at nearly $500 a pop, I passed....this year!

Mick.
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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:46

Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:46
no idea on the TOYO MT I had the opats

I dont even remeber biffing my last MTR - i havnt even been seriosly offroad. i noticed it had a decent gouge but thought it was a superficial rubber wound . suddenly it lost air and closer inspection revealed a substantial cut

problem with MTR is they have a very strong tread - i am yet to get a tread puncture - all the damage is to the soft sidewalls - unrepairable
I have yet to wear one down below 1/3 used tread

- thats alot of KM im missing out on.

ive trashed too many on well defined 2wd tracks for it to be bad luck
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:49

Sunday, Apr 05, 2009 at 23:49
ah and as for waiting for glue to dry try carrying 2 spare tubes and fix them at your leisure

it shouldnt take 15 min anyway but as ive said those cheopo tubes - the patches dont seem to "vulcanise" to them which is their biggest problem. they are a throwaway item tyre shops dont fix punctures they replace tubes as they are cheaper than labour
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Follow Up By: Blaze (Berri) - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 02:21

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 02:21
Dam Davoe, Guess your just plain unlucky, have a few guys in our club that run MTR's. 3 of us have done the Anne Beadell, Oodnadatta Track, Walkers Crossing, Cordillo Track, High Country etc etc. Not 1 puncture so far (touch wood) Think at times it just happens doesn't matter if you had solids on LOL
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 10:01

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 10:01
Hey Blaze Berri

Those are bloody big wide Highways you and yer mates have been driving on. You wouldn't expect to get a puncture there :-)


Cheers
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Follow Up By: Dasher Des - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 15:31

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 15:31
Willem, he only drives a soft 4wheeler so you cant expect him to get onto many rough roads. His MT's are highway pattern anyway LOL
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Follow Up By: Blaze (Berri) - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 16:30

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 16:30
Funny thing is Willie, is three times I have had Dasher Des aka: Des Lexic with me and his 50 series and he has suffered flat tyres, even the spare on one occassion had ropes in it LOL Dam Toorak Tractor
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Reply By: Rockape - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 07:50

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 07:50
I believe safety rims and splits both have a place, it all depends on what type of country you are travelling.

I was as happy as a pig in s when trucks went to light weight safety rims and steel radials, good bye splits and rag tyres forever.

We had splits band at work after an incident, even though the wheel was in a cage, they got rid of them. Looking at many of the rims you could see about 20 percent had incorrect gaps on the lock rings. From that moment the incidence of flat tyres also dropped of markedly.

I have also had and come across splits that are out of round, although I am sure the same happens to steels.

Safety rims are much lighter to handle and you get a lower unsprung weight.
All our exploration vehicles also use safety rims and tubeless tyres. These vehicles run around in all kinds of country from spinifex, gidgee and gibber plains.
AnswerID: 358274

Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 09:01

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 09:01
I like to go outback with splits and a few carcusses/tubes.....just because they can be repaired and even driven on the rim if things get that bad....however, the other side of the coin is this...you get no notice when they go flat, they just do it so quick, one poor guy i will never forget...he was at the bottom of the steep climb out of Tamworth with a drivers front flat in a 75 troupy.... he was putting his hand down the back of his pants and throwing what he pulled out at the splitty....still to this day dont know how he didnt roll it...so looking at it that way....its not worth the consequences....carry a bead breaker and some levers, and if your real lucky, u can leave them in the back and use a plug.
Andrew
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Reply By: Willem - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 08:53

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 08:53
Phil

Am I supposed to join in at this juncture?...LOL

Yer must be catching up with me in age. LOL again

I fitted a split with a tyre just a couple of days ago and I haven't had the stitches taken out of me hand yet! So basically I did it one handed.

Good tyres, good tubes and an annual split and cleaning of the rims is the go.

I went from 4 sets of 'baloon tyres' in 5 years, all rendered useless by stakes, cuts and tears and 100+ plugs, to 1 puncture (in extreme offroad conditions) in 2 years and no stuffed tyres.

This year I am running 4 x 16ply and 4 x 12ply Crossplies on the truck and trailer for our trek out west. This is done so that if the 16plies are too rigid in the sidewalls on the sandy sections I can swap over to the 12plies.



Cheers
AnswerID: 358288

Reply By: The Rambler( W.A.) - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 12:49

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 12:49
I am with you Willem,have used split rims with 235/85 tyres for years all over this country with very few problems.As you say good tyres and tubesis the go.Have not had much trouble changing the splits and just use a jack to break the bead.Have seen more tubeless tyres destroyed than I would like so will stick to the splits.
AnswerID: 358332

Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 22:56

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 22:56
Rambler,

I know I've ask this before but the Hankook L.T.235/85/16 A.T. you where / are running, do they have a trade name or number?

I'm up for 6 newies and I've been told they don't make my type of tyre anymore, so time to move on.

Cheers

Richard
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 13:15

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 13:15
A mention above about patching tubes.. The best system was the proper vulcanising patch that you clamped on to the tube and lit the insert of gun powder,, and melt them on. They really worked,, I reckon glue is going backwards.. I still have a vulcanising clamp somewhere!! I guess they are not available any longer!!! Michael
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AnswerID: 358336

Follow Up By: Bushwhacker - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 17:47

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 17:47
I believe the problem is the synthetic 'rubber' of the tubes these days. You can't vulanise the patch, it just doesn't work. Cant remember exactly why... I'm going back to my dirt bike days here, long time ago. India Rubber comes to mind, if this means anything to anyone? Dave
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Follow Up By: Member - Paul W- Esq (VIC) - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 20:06

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 20:06
Haha, my clamp fell out of the tool cupboard on the weekend,i thought to myself why the hell do i keep this crap still!!
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 20:29

Monday, Apr 06, 2009 at 20:29
Bushwacker that has been my experience i fixed penty of flats on quality tubes - bridgestone i think and never had rework i am vey carfull and thorough when working the patch on my favourite saying is the only thing worse than fixing a flat is fixing it twicethen i changed jobs and the tubes came in a box with tyresR US or something simulatre and every flat i was having problems doing them over and over. then i changed jobs again and even the old bushy i worked with was nearly driven to tears trying to get a patch onto those tyres R us tubes.

the penny only dropped for me when Phil G started posting about crap tubes - then looking back i realized what had been going on
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