Which DIESEL Auto 4WD ? Pajero or Prado or ? Non towing !

Submitted: Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 14:29
ThreadID: 68277 Views:8959 Replies:7 FollowUps:17
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Just sold my diesel got frustrated with diesel prices ! As soon as I sold it prices dropped @#%#. The V6 is thirsty, give me a diesel again.
Have been looking at the $40 000 mark & I am looking at Pajero & Prado around the 2006 year mark, Prado with new D4D motor.
I like the driving position of the Pajero but I'm concerned about fuel range if I'm to do the Simpson desert crossing & offroad ability.
Prado, I drive at work & I reckon they go well, I have some concern over their strength especially the rear tailgate, we have had 2 that have cracked the door aroung the spot welds (we travel rough ground at work).

Or should I be looking at a Cruiser (I'm not a Nissan fan) ?

So basically is fuel range an issue for the Pajero doing a Simpson trip (I use to have a 1200Km range on one vehicle & it was great to bypass $$$ fuel spots during the Kimberley trip). Have other people had issues with Prados cracking rear doors ?

Has anyone got performance stats of the Prado & Pajero ?
Cheers Beddo
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Reply By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 15:24

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 15:24
Fit LPG to the Pajero.
AnswerID: 361869

Follow Up By: Beddo - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 17:40

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 17:40
I had a Hilux diesel & sold it for a 98 Prado Petrol, don't want LPG, lowers ground clearance, plus I like the torque of the diesels. I want a longer fuel range. The petrol may have quick get up & go until you get to a hill, diesels will continue up the hill at the same speed you started at.
Cheers beddo
PS. I intend to inject the diesel with LPG.
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FollowupID: 629655

Follow Up By: Blaze (Berri) - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 01:36

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 01:36
Totally agree MrBitchi,

Beddo you mention not wanting LPG because of tank, yet say your going to fit to the Diesel Rig? You also mention that you like the pull of a diesel up hills, I tow a 1400kg Camper with an LPG Mitsi, and mate has an 80 series diesel with approx same weight Camper in tow, you should hear how many times he yells out over the radio can he throw a tow rope on me as we go through the Flinders on Black Top, so he can keep up.

IMHO I believe you zare used to driving a Diesel and dont drive the V6 how it should be.

And by the way, after Hi-Country, Simpson, Pyrenees, Flinders, GRR, Anne Beadell and never bottomed out my gas tank.

If you are set on the diesel, go the Paj, for the same money you will get a newer vehicle with less K's that the Prado and just add a long range tank.
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FollowupID: 629751

Follow Up By: Beddo - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 09:33

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 09:33
Blaze, I looked into fitting LPG to a Prado diesel - small 20 L tank hidden well up out of harms way, will have to enquire where they are fitted to pajeros.
The old 80 series cruisers are gutless especially if they are not turboed or if they are pre 1996. I have been driving 4.2L diesels at work (non turboed) for years & you have to flog them to get them to move; the new V8 diesels are great compared; the V8's we are also getting better fuel economy from. My 2005 hilux D4D auto would go up Mooney Mooney hill on the F3 doing atleast 110, my 98 Prado petrol won't unless you flog it to bits & then the fuel kills ya.
Anyway I won't be towing - don't believe in it, lived at Tibooburra for a while & the only problems most people had was with trailers & incidents concerning them.
Don't know how to drive a V6, yep direct debt your entire salary to BP :) I have a V8 Falcon at home - it goes alright.
Cheers Beddo
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FollowupID: 629776

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 at 07:31

Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 at 07:31
I think the point Blaze is raising is with a petrol engine you simply go back a cog or two and bring the revs up to develop horsepower. Torque becomes irrelevant once there is an abundance of horsepower.

Yes, they will chew juice when being revved, hence the suggestion of LPG. Assuming you live where LPG is about 45c/L as opposed to diesel at $1.20, the LPG powered vehicle will always be more economical to run.

Disclaimer: LPG may be expensive and/or have limited availability in remote areas.

Cheers,

Jim.

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Follow Up By: Blaze (Berri) - Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:48

Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:48
Thanks Jim,

You put it a lot better than I could.. LOL Also of course with so many modern 4X4's now having Auto boxes with humpteen gears they sort themslves out what gear they need and shoot over the hills.

One other point, I think we all agree that Diesels produce more torque, but the newer small capacity diesels that have turbos don't produce much of anything if off the boost.

Just done a trip through the High Country and where I could creep my way up over rough steep area's with the LPG Auto the 3ltr Turbos, (Toyota and Nissan) both had to keep their revs up and suffered if bulked on a hill.

Totally agree with your comment also on ""LPG may be expensive and/or have limited availability in remote areas"".
Just that over 90% of of people that visit this site use their vehicle for huge times of its life in area's that LPG is available, usually a maximum of about 10% of K's in out-outback.


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FollowupID: 629978

Follow Up By: Beddo - Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 at 19:32

Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 at 19:32
Blaze & Jim, yeh you will get the turbo lag with the manual, but the auto is fine with the turbo - no lag.
Why diesel - well I guess the motor will last longer, more reliable & is more environmentally friendly - especially if you inject with LPG aswell. Diesel is better for water crossings - I was led to believe ? Or is there just the same amount of electronics now ?
If I was to do a Simpson trek would I have enough fuel & LPG togethor to cover the distance ?
I had a 2005 hilux Auto with the D4D motor & it was great, I now have 1998 Prado 3400 petrol auto & I hate the power & torque of it compared to the new D4D motor - it would fly up hills compared to petrol; must admit the D4D motor is a lot newer.
Cheers Beddo
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FollowupID: 630195

Reply By: wicket - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 16:51

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 16:51
Don't buy another diesel, we want the prices kept down :)
AnswerID: 361888

Reply By: psproule - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 17:28

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 17:28
Stick an LRA Aux tank on a Pajero DID if you want similar range to the Prado. We had our 50 litre version (you can get an 80) fitted to a V6 NM which gave it about 1000km range if you behaved or didn't tow. It did the Simpson with only 1 x 20l extra jerry.

The same tank is now fitted to our DID NP Pajero and it returns 1500km range without treading lightly, or about 1250 towing our ski boat. It travelled the simpson without needing to go to Mt Dare, and only used 80 odd L of it's capacity to Mt Dare.

Even when diesel was $0.30 a litre dearer than petrol, and factoring in the difference in purchasing and servicing costs, we calculated that over 25,000km per year we were some $2,000 better off with the diesel still.

Re off-road ability - how much more does traction control cost on the Prado? Our NP with 2" lift and decent tyres has no trouble at all keeping up with similarly equipped (sans traction control) 120 series Prados in our touring group.

Pat

AnswerID: 361897

Follow Up By: Beddo - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 17:46

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 17:46
Pat, that sounds pretty good. I have been looking at the figures & it seems for my money I can get an Exceed or a GXL in the Prado. The Pajero has a few more options.
Cheers Beddo
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Follow Up By: BenDiD - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 19:21

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 19:21
And the Prado GXL DOESN'T have traction control.

I don't care what Toyota pundits say about the Prado's rear LSD, its no match for the Paj's traction control.

I have an NS DiD and love it. fitting a LRA tank later this year.

just my 2cw

cheers

Ben
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FollowupID: 629677

Follow Up By: Beddo - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 20:29

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 20:29
Toyotas do not have the best LSD, but the centre diff lock helps. Driving both Hiluxs & Prados the centre diff lock of the Prado helps heaps. I did watch a Pajero go through some tight switch backs & it lifted a front wheel that stopped it. Don't know if they had traction control on, but I was in a Prado & I knew the the lines to take.
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Follow Up By: psproule - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 21:11

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 21:11
Pajero also has centre diff lock, like most real 4x4's.
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Follow Up By: Blaze (Berri) - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 01:52

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 01:52
Pat you mention:

"Even when diesel was $0.30 a litre dearer than petrol, and factoring in the difference in purchasing and servicing costs, we calculated that over 25,000km per year we were some $2,000 better off with the diesel still"

I'm assuming this is compared to ULP, how do you're figures stack up against dual fuel vehicles.

We did the figures and even with lack of available LPG fuel in the out-outback, running costs just for fuel were $1,000 less per 25,000km per year and even more savings taking into account higher servicing costs on Diesels.
These figures were based on a Pajero diesel versus a Paj 3.5ltr V6, Diesel averaged 10.1ltrs per 100klm and the ULP used 15.2ltrs on LPG and 14.2 on ULP. Just some more food for thought.
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FollowupID: 629752

Follow Up By: psproule - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:19

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:19
Yes, I'm talking 3.5L NM V6 running on ULP vs 3.2L NP DID (diesel). Of course LPG would beat it on running costs. But then I wouldn't have the touring range or the grunt.

The diesel might cost a bit more each service, but then it doesn't have the cam belt or platinum spark plug services that are a big blip on the servicing costs of the petrol. Remember the DID has a 15k service interval (although like many cautious owners I do oil changes at 7,500km). Our calculations to 150,000km were that they were fairly even in service costs.

Our petrol paj used a bit more fuel than yours. Factor in that we do a lot of towing and the DID wins for us.

Having said all of that, the Prado is a bloody nice vehicle and the D4D is a gem. Quieter, smoother, more comfortable. Why did I choose a Paj then? - handling and inclusions vs cost.
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FollowupID: 629805

Reply By: Bob of KAOS - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 19:40

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 19:40
I am always curious about which two diesel outlets people intend travelling between when they claim a 180L tank is necessary.

In 1996 my Petrol Paj used 89 L to travel from Mt Dare to Birdsville. I am guessing the diesel could do it very easily.

If I were going to increase the range of the diesel Paj I would consider LPG injection, as suggested above. A 20 L gas tank would increase the range (and torque) quite dramatically.

Bob
AnswerID: 361930

Follow Up By: MickeyJ - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 20:24

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 20:24
Garry JunctionCanning Stock Route Nhullunbuy

Ceers Mickey
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Follow Up By: Beddo - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 20:33

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 20:33
I had a Toyota Surf 97 model with the bonnet scoop, new shape that I imported, fitted a long range tank to supplement the 70L standard tank. It was handy in the Kimberly to bypass the expensive fuel stops. That's why I like the extra fuel capacity.
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FollowupID: 629703

Follow Up By: Crackles - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 20:44

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 20:44
"which two diesel outlets people intend travelling between when they claim a 180L tank is necessary"
Mt Dare to Jervois, Wiluna to Kunawarrijtji are a couple that spring to mind :-)
Then of course with long range comes choice where one can dodge the $2.50+ per litre servos like Rabbit Flat.
When you said your Paj used 89L from the 92L tank I asume you weren't suggesting that you didn't carry a couple of jerries?...... Prado owners rarely have to find space for their back up fuel.
Cheers Craig........
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FollowupID: 629708

Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 02:24

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 02:24
balladonia to the south coast then a weeks beach fishing before hitting esperance
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Reply By: Wherehegon - Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 22:18

Monday, Apr 27, 2009 at 22:18
The 03 prados were bad for the rear door hinge cracking but was rectified in the 04 models. The d4d is the pick of the diesel engines, 8 to 9L per 100 (under 10's even round town) the touring range is brilliant due to the 180L tanks. The pajeros are a good thing as well especially the 3.2DID motor. All V6 petrol motros in the 4by's are thirsty. Hence why I sold my V6 prado and bought a T/D just last week. ..........WHG
AnswerID: 361964

Follow Up By: Beddo - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 09:41

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 09:41
The Prados we had were the first of the new shape, now we have the new D4D's and no issues yet - except ground clearance front needs to be a tad higher than standard, corner well, handle well & are quick, except 6 speed box needs some time to get use to - wheres reverse ! I like the auto box, but the manual is fun to push around.
Cheers Beddo
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FollowupID: 629778

Reply By: puttputt - Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:26

Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:26
I had an 07 d4d prado 6 speed manual which I sold recently, I could not fault it, tremendous in every way.

I have just bought a 2001 coaster bus with the 1hz 4.2 L diesel non turbo, plan to convert into a mobile home, I am amazed at the power, it flies, I even went looking to see if it had a turbo hooked up, because it went so well, I took it on holiday, 3 adults, 2 children, loaded up and towing a 1700 kg van, it went very well, and easily kept up with traffic.

I thought when I bought it I would have to upgrade performance, but not required, it has done 230 000 kms.

I am happy not to have a common rail high pressure motor any more, because parts are so expensive, each injector costs $1500, compared to $250 for the 1hz.
AnswerID: 362022

Reply By: marq - Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 at 06:58

Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 at 06:58
Get a LRA 81L aux tank - cost about $1500 fitted to the pajero.

That gives you 170L

You will only use about 100 to 120L of diesel crossing the simpson.
AnswerID: 362172

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