Do 285 tyres reduce or increase fuel constumtion?

Submitted: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 10:20
ThreadID: 69003 Views:15892 Replies:15 FollowUps:22
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I have an 80 series currently fitted with 265/75/16 tyres and am considering going to 285/75/16 tyres (prob BFG AT's) - one reason was I thought the larger diameter would reduce revs at cruising speed and therefore give better fuel economy - I have since heard that it may actually increase fuel consumption.... Does anyone have any experience with this?

Also - would a wider offset rim give better handling on the highway?? I currently have 16x7 alloy mags with the narrow offset to keep the tyres under the guards of the standard cruiser - would going to the wider rims and adding fibreglass flares help with a bit of vagueness that the car currently suffers??

Thanks heaps
Drew
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Reply By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 10:57

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 10:57
Drew,

I assume from the talk of fitting flares that yours is a DX. The normally aspirated donk might struggle a bit with the increased tyre diameter. Can't say for sure. I have 285/75/16s on mine, but it is a 4.5 petrol so handles it pretty well power wise.

Fuel consumption a bit difficult to determine. It will certainly appear that your consumption is worse because the larger diameter tyres will give you about a 4% lower speedo reading. I haven't tried to calculate the exact impact on fuel consumption because it is often difficult to isolate one factor over another. My gut feel is that it has made no (or negligible) difference, but the diesel might be a different kettle of fish. Spare still fits under the body OK if you have retained that set up.

Cheers,

Matt.
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Follow Up By: Drew - Karratha - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:54

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:54
It isnt even the DX...Yep - it has the 1HZ and will be getting Diesel Gas fitted in 2 weeks. I dont want to offset the extra power and econony gained with the diesel gas by fitting bigger tyres if that is what will happen...
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Reply By: joff1 - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:01

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:01
I had worn 275 AT's on my 105 Cruiser and went to 285 MTZ's. I lost 2lts/100km. (10/100 to 12/100 first tank with the new rubber)

Not only did the fuel ecconomy suffer but I also lost a significant amount of off the line grunt. It was noticable the minute I drove out of the shop.

On the highway I could hold 5th up hill and down dale on all but the real steep stuff. These days I'm back in 4th much quicker.

Interestingly, my speedo and odometer are now more acurate when compared to my GPS.

I don't think it will help you at all in your quest for better ecconomy but it does give a little more diff clearance plus it looks tougher LOL.

Seriously, If I had my time again I would probably looked at 275's or even 265's

AnswerID: 365802

Reply By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:07

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:07
Larger (wider) tyres will increase your fuel consumption because the rolling resistance is greater for tyres of the same type (e.g. Bfg AT).
If you go to mud type pattern fuel consumption will increase again, because of the energy required to bend the blocks.

If on the bigger tyres (of the same type) you increase air pressure such that the contact patch now matches that of the 265's then fuel consumption will drop and approximately be the same or slightly better because of the secondary effect of less revs.

For my car I also have the 265 and use sets of 255/85/16 to get more ground clearance, less revs and less contact patch, and
they stay compatiable with lighter 7 inch rims.

This allows a win win situation in that with tyre pressures up (40) I get lower consumption and with tyre pressures down (18) I get extra traction to match what a 285 has normally due to longer contact patch.
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Follow Up By: joff1 - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:55

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:55
I run mine at 45 in the front and 50 in the back when loaded. Still doesn't get as good ecconomy as the old tyres.

In terms of rolling diametre, there is not a direct correlation between revs and fuel consumption when you consider you may need more fuel at the lower revs to hold them.
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Reply By: tim_c - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 12:07

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 12:07
One of the biggest differences would be the tread pattern - the smoother it is, the quieter, and the less rolling friction. But also less friction/traction on dirt/mud/etc. When I put road tyres on my mountain bike (for the commute to work), I realised the significance of this like never before!

Putting a larger dia. tyre on will make your gearing slightly 'taller' and reduce your engine revs for the same vehicle speed, but not the same wheel speed. The wheels still go around the same number of times per minute for your speedo to record 80km/h, but because the rolling dia. of the tyres is bigger, you cover more distance each time the wheel goes around. I calculate the difference to be around 7.5% - you'll need to be careful around speed cameras because (assuming your speed is accurate now) with the bigger tyres, your speedo will UNDER-READ by 7.5%, so if it says 80km/h, you are actually going closer to 86km/h.

You'll also need to factor this in for your fuel economy calcs. If you are using the odometer/trip meter to record distance, these will also be affected. Instead of recording L/100km, you'll now be recording L/107.5km! It might seem like the figure goes up, but you could still be better off as your are actually covering more distance per km recorded on the odo/tripmeter.

Putting bigger tyres on will increase the vagueness of the steering/handling as the sidewalls of the tyres are bigger which generally means more flex as your corner - this is why racing/sports cars have low-profile tyres. Using a M/T tyre in place of an A/T tyre will further increase tyre flex because the tread flexes more (which helps significantly with grip on rough/slippery surfaces) therefore resulting in even further vagueness.

I would expect the biggest change in fuel consumption to come from the more aggressive tread pattern rather than the bigger tyre size.
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 20:30

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 20:30
Ah yes, thanks to vk1dx (below), I realise I oversimplified my calculations - there would only be about 3.7% difference so 80km/h on your speedo will be 83km/h on the ground - not so bad afterall. And fuel consumption calculated on your tripmeter would be L/103.7km. Sorry about that.
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Reply By: vk1dx - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 13:05

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 13:05
Drew

I think people may be getting things around the wrong way a bit.

This is from the San Jose Classic Chevys Club

The first number is the width of the tire in millimeters, measured from sidewall to sidewall. . . .
The second number is the aspect ratio. This is a ratio of sidewall height to width. . . .
The last number is the diameter of the wheel in inches.

To figure the outside diameter of a tire, take the sidewall height and multiply by 2,(remember that the diameter is made up of 2 sidewalls, the one above the wheel, and the one below the wheel) and add the diameter of the wheel to get your answer.

Example...185/60R14 85H or 185/60HR14

185mm x .60=111mm x 2=222mm + 355.6mm(14")= 577.6mm or 22.74"
"

Overall you will get more rubber on the road which produces more friction etc etc as others have said.

Can't help with the offset question.

But I wonder if you change the alignment of the center of the wheel with respect to the center of the wheel bearing/s would that cause damage. I was told it would years ago. I know technology has changed but is this issue still relevant. I am interested also.

Anyone???

Phil
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Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 14:56

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 14:56
Drew


Check what the ADRs are. I am not aware for your vehicle but for some you are only supposed to fit what is on the tyre placard in the vehicle.



Tjilpi
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Reply By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 15:04

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 15:04
More ofter than not, vagueness is caused by,
square shoulders on the tyre,
incorectly adjusted wheel bearings,
slap in king pin bearings,
different tyre pressures on the same axle,
worn steering damper,
play in tie rods, worn bushes (especially control arms)
incorrect caster / camber due to alignment or susp. lift,

I usually run 285's and the larger width/ height can make it feel worse if everything else isn't spot on.

If you are concerned try to borrow a set and go for a drive on an uneven road.

If you are worried about fuel consumption and $ per km buy a petrol on gas or a corolla. We don't drive large 'trucks' for the economy.
Personally I drive petrols now as I find that overall the performance is far superior and sevicing is cheaper. Even without being on gas I find the fact that when I need power to overtake or tow it is there right away, no waiting for the turbo to spool up (if fitted) or for a 4km overtaking lane (1HZ) and the economy of 14 litres per 100km out of the 105 auto is fine. The last 80 I had with a 1HZ used to get the same economy with about 1/4 of the driveability.

Just my 2c worth.

Cheers
Dave
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 15:30

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 15:30
We have 265is on with an 8 inch (200mm) rim. Came with the car. I have toyed with putting slightly wider rubber on next year. But I dont want to put 285's on these rims and destroy the tyre's edge holding property. I dont want slip into some deep ruts if we come across them. Also the current outer track measurement is on the maximum allowed for the Ghan. And we have already paid for the tickets.

Does any one know if a 285 is okay on my rims?

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 15:37

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 15:37
Phil I only use 16 x 8's as there are no insurance hassles as it was a factory size for the cruisers.
I go the 285's because they are nearly the same dia as the 750x 16's and close enough to the width of the 265's. The cruisers have dual tyre placards and this is the best way to go IMHO.

Dave
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 15:58

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 15:58
Thanks Dave

All 16 x 8's as well. With 265's on them. Its interesting to note that 17" dia rims are also allowed. You reminded me with your mention of "factory size" to get of my behind and go down to the car and check out the books etc.

I just checked the books and the table on the car door jam. Both mention 275 x 16. It has 265 x 16 fitted on the standard rim. WE got it 2nd hand at Christmas. That tell me we should replace the current 265's with 275' at the next purchase. Such a minor thing I know but when it comes to insurance the blighter's will look for any way out they can get.

So I thank all and will stick to the standard 275 at the next rotation. I bet with my luck they will be a hard to get tyre.

Looks like I answered my own question. Should have looked first. Whoops.
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 16:23

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 16:23
"I bet with my luck they will be a hard to get tyre."

You might find out the reason the car had 265's when you got it! ;)
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Follow Up By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 16:43

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 16:43
Also in my rig pic the hilux has 265's and the cruiser has 285's if you want to see the difference.
Cheers,
Dave
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 16:59

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 16:59
Nice place for a cuppa. Where is it? And don't say just next to the Hilux! Ha

Its a bit hard to tell the difference between them. At first glance the 285's appear bulkier but that could be an opticall illusion.

From what I can see I do not think I would change immediately. I still have to find out the legality of it as both the door and the book say no.

Ta

Phil
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Follow Up By: Horacehighroller - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 18:44

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 18:44
Phil, another consideration is speed & load ratings.
In relation to factory fitted tyres I know that (some) 80 series had the 265s with a speed/load of 112S?( memory) while the 105s had 275s with 114T

You shouldn't fit a lower speed/load rated tyre than that placarded.

Peter
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 18:56

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 18:56
All covered. The rating is 114 regardless of whether I use 265 or 275 tyres.

Thanks for considering me. Unlike ordinary vehicles our 4WD's can sometimes get quite heavy. Whilst I haven't weighed it yet, it appears to be about 3200Kg. Thats 2800Kg appros manufactured weight (I think) plus 400Kg of drawers and fridge.

Bit heavier than the old Kingswood hey???

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Follow Up By: Inkbandit79 - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 19:21

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 19:21
285/75/R16 will be fine they will give you a rolling diamiter similar to 32.5in, if they can fit under your gaurds that would be the way to go, I have cooper STT's fitted to my 100 series and have nothing but praise for them, they are quiter than BFG's and their side wall is alot thicker as well so you dont get that vaugeness when cornering,also they are a harder compound, mine handles great and if the tyre's would fit i would fit them to the missus sports car!
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 20:20

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 20:20
They are exactly the tyres we were looking at for a trip up Cape York next year. Right now the A/T's will be fine for the Kimberley 6 week trip.

I saw a set of STT's (85% tread) on ebay with the 5 hole rims but as we had just set up the car with drawers, fridge, bed extension, pump, suspension etc etc etc we moved them to next years budget.

We have a 2005 GXL 100 series diesel and it goes well on the A/T's. 12 lt per 100K is okay by us for that weight. And we rarely do over 100.

Sports car? How do you think they would go on our son's Mazda RX8. He tried it out one time up to 256K and stopped there. Still had another gear to go. He is coming to the cape with us in his Navara. He also has a Datsun Group A rally car but has elected to leave it home.

3 days to go YEY
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Follow Up By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 07:46

Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 07:46
The pic was taken at a waterhole on the Nogoa River off the Dawson Developmental Rd west of Springsure. I think it was on the Riverview property if memory serves me well.
The cruiser was in the hands of it's new owners and their 1st off road trip. That was the 1st and last trip off road for the lux. Sold it and bought another 105, it might have been a lovely SR5 but definately NO comparisin.
BTW I always get no less than 100,000km out of a set of BFG muds, keep an eye on the pressures and rotate front to back every 10,000km without fail.

Cheers
Dave
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 09:03

Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 09:03
Well done. However with out offending anyone.

Personally we do not care how many miles we get. Its the last link with the road and the road holding ability is paramount.

Regarding tyre rotation; Back in the old days (!!!!) we couldn't rotate the tyres on a 2wd car we updated with bigger motor, transmission and paint job among other things, because the tyres were different widths. After about 50K it became evident that we had the wrong pressures in the front ones and the alignment was out a smidgin, despite the pressures were as recommended and it getting much loving attention. If the tyres had been the same size this may never been found as the unevenly worn tyres would have been rotated and the error "overwritten". No more rotating.

We also put different tyres on front and rear. Front profile selected mainly for steering and rear for pushing. Of course braking is an issue with both. We lost steering one time but the back stopped us when we had the same tyres on. Damp road! One reason we changed tack.

Interesting: The local Cooper agency recommended pressure for the rear of our car at 3000Kg at 35 psi. They are almost too hot to touch after a few hundred kms. Raise it to 45 to start with and after the same mileage they are heaps cooler. So much for the local Cooper agents recommendation. The front are fine at 35.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 09:18

Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 09:18
Nice chatting with you Dave. I hope we meet. But I do not think we should fill up the with too much chatter.

Like I said - I hope we catch up one day.

And the same to all of you on Exploreoz. If we have any money left after this trip we should join up.

Phil and Sue (100 series cruiser YGH88E)
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Reply By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 15:07

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 15:07
More ofter than not, vagueness is caused by,
square shoulders on the tyre,
incorectly adjusted wheel bearings,
slap in king pin bearings,
different tyre pressures on the same axle,
worn steering damper,
play in tie rods, worn bushes (especially control arms)
incorrect caster / camber due to alignment or susp. lift,

I usually run 285's and the larger width/ height can make it feel worse if everything else isn't spot on.

If you are concerned try to borrow a set and go for a drive on an uneven road.

If you are worried about fuel consumption and $ per km buy a petrol on gas or a corolla. We don't drive large 'trucks' for the economy.
Personally I drive petrols now as I find that overall the performance is far superior and sevicing is cheaper. Even without being on gas I find the fact that when I need power to overtake or tow it is there right away, no waiting for the turbo to spool up (if fitted) or for a 4km overtaking lane (1HZ) and the economy of 14 litres per 100km out of the 105 auto is fine. The last 80 I had with a 1HZ used to get the same economy with about 1/4 of the driveability.

Just my 2c worth.

Cheers
Dave
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Dave
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Follow Up By: Drew - Karratha - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 16:14

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 16:14
Thanks Dave
I will start going through your list to see if I can work out the cause of the vagueness....
As far at the economy goes - I nearly sold the cruiser a few months back to buy something more economical, but I tried to slow down to 100km/hr and started getting 11 - 12L/100, and the $ I could get if I sold the car wouldnt buy me anything that compares to the usefullness of it.... Every bit of better economy I can find helps!!
I am used to the power (lack of) and with the Diesel Gas fitted in a couple of weeks the small increase that it provides will be very welcome!! After 412000kms of problem free driving (1 x water pump) with only changing oil and filter every 10000km I dont think there would be too many vehicles that could be cheaper to service in the long run!!
Drew
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Reply By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 17:31

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 17:31
If you are trying to reduce fuel consumption and also revs at cruising speed just slow down to 100 kph and that will do it all. The 80 series are not aerodynamic (which 4wd is?) so trying to push a house brick faster can only cost fuel.
AnswerID: 365848

Reply By: Member - Rick P (NT) - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 20:26

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 20:26
Just a quick one, we had a lot of trouble getting 285/75/16 BFG's in Broken Hill, Mt Isa and a couple of other places. We were told that they are not as popular as 275's & 265's so they didn't stock them. So I will be going back to 275's when my BFG's finally wear out, could be waiting a while though.
AnswerID: 365888

Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 20:48

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 20:48
Might pay you to weigh it as well cos if you reckon it weighs 3200kg It will be of doubtful max legal weight even before you get in it.
A 100 series 1 Hz is legally to be only 3180 ATM.

Something to think about also lighter means a better fuel figure.
AnswerID: 365891

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 08:42

Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 08:42
I intend to weigh it tomorrow just before we head off.

As I said that was an estimate taking into account the drawer set and fridge etc.

Cheers
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Reply By: Big Woody - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 20:54

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 20:54
Hi Drew,

I also have an 80 series with 1HZ engine. A couple of years ago I made the move from 275/75/R16's fitted to 16x7 rims.
I replaced them with 18x8 rims and 285/75/R16 mud tyres and my consumption increased on average about 2Litres/100km.

Yes I have lost power and really notice the difference even with an empty trailer on the back.

Would I do it again. Absolutely. I have a rather large property with some pretty tough tracks and the difference off-road is amazing.

At the end of the day, generally everything you do to a 4x4 to change it from standard will increase fuel consumption. It is all about compromise and what type of driving you will be using your 80 series for most of the time.

When I purchased my 80 it was completely standard and could get 10L/100km. fit bullbars, spotties, roof rack and it hits 12, fit 33"mud tyres and it goes up to 14L/100km, fit winch, and 2nd spare wheel and rear drawers full of recovery gear and rarely get under 15L/100km now. Stick a big trailer on the back that weighs a couple of tonne and I have had up to 18L/100km.

Good luck with your decision and I hope this info is helpful to you.

BW
AnswerID: 365894

Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 11:22

Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 11:22
I replaced them with 18x8 rims and 285/75/R16 mud tyres

Those 16 inch tyres must have been a tight fit on 18X8 rims :-)
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Follow Up By: Big Woody - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 14:13

Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 14:13
They sure were - blew a phoofer valve working those tyre levers for about 3 hours.

hehe!

Typo Sorry - meant to be 16x8

I was typing in a hurry because I could hear SWMBO's footsteps up the hallway and was scared she would catch me on ExplorOz website again.

Just clicked "submit" in time but no chance to proofread the post.
hehe - got away with it again.

If you are concerned for my wellbeing I am safe at the moment - having lunch at work.

BW
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Reply By: Snowy 3.0iTD - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 08:27

Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 08:27
Drew

I done this on my old 3.0L Patrol and am looking at doing it with my 100 series TD Cruiser. I found on the Patrol that the bigger tyres did not increase fuel consumption. What did increase fuel consumption was going from a A/T tread to a M/T tread both in 285's, about 0.5-1 L/100km. Acceleration did suffer slightly. My Patrol was automatic, where as my Landcruiser is manual and has a sweet-zone on the torque curve that starts to drop off at 2600 rpm, which will be at around 110km/h with 285 tyres. May help if you could find a torque/power curve for your vehicle, look at where the revs will be sitting with the bigger tyres at highway cruising speed, if it sits in the sweet spot with 265's then don't change, if it is with 285's then upgrade.


Cheers

Snowy
AnswerID: 365937

Reply By: Drew - Karratha - Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 10:42

Thursday, May 21, 2009 at 10:42
Thanks for the replies everyone - I think I will stick with the 265's at the moment as they still have a fair bit of tread left and I dont really want to risk less power and economy... When these wear out I will look at it again!!

Drew
AnswerID: 365945

Reply By: hotfishez - Friday, May 22, 2009 at 08:52

Friday, May 22, 2009 at 08:52
All I read was bla bla bla.
It will not make any noticable difference in fuel economy, your speedo at 116kph will be actual road speed of 120kph, your 80- will feel more torquey (if that is a word) and the gas will improve your performance that much it would not matter how much bigger you go. I know this as I have the 1hz and did the tyre change the only difference is mine is the gxl and is standard wide wheels and flares. In my opinion the factory flares (avail on ebay) look great and can be easily fitted but the black strip flare is adequate.
AnswerID: 366102

Follow Up By: Drew - Karratha - Friday, May 22, 2009 at 20:44

Friday, May 22, 2009 at 20:44
I am so influenced by peer pressure / opinion!!! Now I am again thinking about splashing out on the $2900 and getting 6x 6 x 18 black rims and 285/65/15 BFG AT's - just after I decided not to do it.... Is the gas really that good?? and how mch for the fibreglass flares (the rbber ones look gay!!) I'm excited!
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Follow Up By: hotfishez - Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 08:06

Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 08:06
the flares are around $350 + postage i think. $2900 is not too bad for a full set of six, there are specials around, bfg have a deal at the moment, free compressor with any set of tyres, and also look into packages, there was or still is 4 x CSA Magnum alloys with Goodyear tyres for under $2000. Not sure who it is through I would see your local dunlop dealer. I have researched gas and have not heard any complaints, instant improvement in power and torque up to 25% in cases, engine runs cooler and cleaner, there is an improvement with economy some say big improvement others not so much. If I do go with gas I will have it switch activated so I can turn it on and off as I like. I dont need it around town, only when I am towing the boat out of tom price and that alone is a six to seven hour drive to over your way. Gas would have to be with the $3000 total you get back in rebates, the cheapest and best diesel power upgrade you can get.
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