Can you make something of this RTA reply? Doh!!!!!!!

Submitted: Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 19:46
ThreadID: 69278 Views:8672 Replies:10 FollowUps:7
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I want to bring back some 2.4 m wide garage tilt doors from Sydney on a boat trailer that I'm also picking up there so to avoid getting booked I asked the following questions and this is a copy of the e mail sheet

Can you please advise the maximum load dimensions because this site only gives the overwidth figures for heavy vehicles. I want to shift two garage doors (2400 and 2500 wide)on 2m wide trailer.
> If too wide then I will build cradle to stow on an angle so will need maximum height figure as well Thanks

From: MR xxxxxxxxx) on behalf of Technical Enquiries (Technical_Enquiries@rta.nsw.gov.au)

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Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 8:45:30 AM
To: xxxxxxxx


You can overhang up to 150mm over the width of the body,but cannot exceed 2.5m overall.

Regards

RTA Tech Enq

Thanks for your quick response but I need more info. '150mm over the width of the body" Does this mean 150 each side?
I am using a boat trailer to shift these and if weld or bolt 2100 bearers to the frame crossways, does this mean that I can then have a 150 mm overhangeach side and therefore carry a 2400 mm wide door. If I'm not allowed to increase the makers width,then what constitutes the "width" of the vehicle. The widest part ? including the wheels?.
If I cant get sufficient width allowance, then I will have to cant them over so I need to know thw height max figure.
I am carrying these 700kms so getting the local carrier is not an option.
Thanks

150 mm each side of the widest point of the trailer,but not exceeding 2.5m overall

From: xxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 12:37 PM
To: Technical Enquiries
Subject: RE: INTERNET FEEDBACK
Why is it not possible for you to answer the questions (plural).
I am using a boat trailer to shift these and if weld or bolt 2100 bearers to the frame crossways, does this mean that I can then have a 150 mm overhangeach side and therefore carry a 2400 mm wide door?

If I'm not allowed to increase the makers width, then what constitutes the "width" of the vehicle. Does the widest part include the wheels?.

If I cant get sufficient width allowance, then I will have to cant them over so I need to know the height max figure

If I get this wrong, I will get booked so I need the correct information and all of it. The RTA is suppossed to be an organisation supplying information to the public to enable compliance with the law and so............
Thankyou

From: Technical Enquiries (Technical_Enquiries@rta.nsw.gov.au)

Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 1:41:07 PM
To: xxxxxxxxxx)

1 attachment

VSI05.pdf (132.1 KB)


What part do you not understand ?,I thought I did answer your question, the widest point is the maximum distance between either side of the trailer.,for example wheel guard to wheel guard,you will have to work this out for yourself by measuring it.

A trailer can be constructed up to 2.5m wide.

A load can overhang 150mm each side of the widest part of the trailer,not exceeding 2.5m wide in total,and no higher than 4.3m.

How you load the trailer is up to you,so long as it is secure and within the dimension limits.

Regards

RTA Tech Enq


So what do you reckon?
Is bolting 2100 mm bearers to the trailer chassis making these part of the load carrying vehicle and allowing another 300mm
to be added as overhang or do you think that the width will be determined as the outer point of the wheel guards. Note that he says that the vehicle width could be determined "FOR EXAMPLE BY THE WIDTH OF THE GUARDS" So that infers that
something else could determine the width and that could be a flat deck (or could it be the width of bearers

Any ideas Thanks. Am i expecting too much thinking that a techical person at the RTA could get the drift of my query
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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 20:02

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 20:02
Gday,
If your trailer is 2000mm wide, the maximum width you can carry is 2300mm.
He said maximum of 150mm overhang.

Yeah, sure you could add bearers, but unless your going to move your lights out and re register it as a 2600mm wide trailer your still not going to be legal? And being he said not exceeding 2500mm I reckon you got buckleys unless you want to try for a wide load permit.......

Good luck
Hairy
AnswerID: 367226

Reply By: wigger - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 20:13

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 20:13
Thanks Hairy,
Are you saying that the lights width is the critical issue"
I.e. the rear lights spacing can't be more 150mm inside the width of the load?
Are there regs for lights placement because i see some pretty arbitary spacing of lights on those removable boards that people use on their boat trailers.
AnswerID: 367228

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:07

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:07
That 150mm means on the vehicle. as far as I know has nothing to do with the load, ..


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Follow Up By: wigger - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:28

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:28
"That 150mm means on the vehicle. as far as I know has nothing to do with the load, "

sorry Doug, I'm not with you. Please explain in monosyllables
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:46

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:46
Wigger
The 150mm regulation applies to the vehicle, not the load, I have transported many oversized loads and you are not required to move the tail lights so as to be 150mm from the extremity of the load,

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Reply By: Horacehighroller - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 20:24

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 20:24
You have already stated that your trailer is 2.0 Metres wide.
(If any part of it is wider than that then the widest part is the width.)
If it is 2m you can overhang 150mm either side to make a total of 2.3M

You can not make the trailer wider by bolting on bearers - (they would be considered to be part of the load unless you move lights etc to comply with the legislation and then have the trailer inspected.)

You cannot get an overwidth permit if your vehicle(trailer) is less than the maximum width.

If the largest door is only 2.4m then stand them up vertically in the middle and cross tie using webbing straps/ropes. (or preferably dog & chain)
If using straps or ropes ensure that they are not over any sharp edges as they will fray quickly with vibration/movement.

Peter
AnswerID: 367231

Follow Up By: wigger - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 20:59

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 20:59
Tks Peter,
Yes I'm getting the drift of what people are saying. Why couldn't the RTA guy say that you're not allowed to increase the makers width? i.e if you run the tape over it now at the widest point, then you can't make it legally wider by bolting stuff like bearers on.
Why didn't he say that lights were an issue and would determine the max permissible trailer width?

I put this post up because I've been dealing with someone who's being paid out of our rego fees and all the other grabs, and seems to find it too hard to get off his proverbial a@#$, and do properly what he's being paid for.

As you suggest I'll stand them upright with protective collars on the straps.

Let's hope that there's not a strong crosswind blowing on the day
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 21:26

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 21:26
It seems fairly logical to me.

If your trailer as registered is 2m wide you can only have a 2.3m load
If its 2.2m wide you can have a 2.5m wide load If its 2.4 m wide you can still only have a 2.5m wide load


How high is each door

Most garage doors are only 2m high so perhaps. You havent considered the obvious.



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Follow Up By: wigger - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:12

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:12
Yes Graham, have considered the obvious. they're 2.5 high
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Reply By: Member - Scoof (SA) - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 20:40

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 20:40
I would of thought if the load is not over 2.5 Metres wide and you don't travel at night or if you do you have clearance lights so all can see the overall width.
You wouldn't get a second look.As long as the load safe and not flapping all over as you are travelling.
What's the problem .
I think we all see strange looking loads every day. Your load doesn't sound too bad, and because you have gone to the trouble of asking about things, your not about to do anything stupid.
Just my opinion.

Cheers Scoof . :-)
AnswerID: 367232

Follow Up By: wigger - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:22

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:22
Lovely words Scoof and just what a part of me wanted to hear but I think I'd better find out what the penalties are before I run with this one. The penalties for illegally owerwidth Heavy Vehicles are scary so I'd best look at the light stuff
Will you bring me a fruitcake with a file in it if I do end up in the slammer?
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Reply By: Member - Barnray (NSW) - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 21:33

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 21:33
Why not sit the doors on the rollers and tie them vertical and watch low level bridges and cross wind. Barnray
AnswerID: 367249

Reply By: Neil & Pauline - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 21:56

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 21:56
For what it is worth we found with a truck with a stock crate added that was 400mm longer than the tray. This was not legal simply bolted in place (was considered load) . When we had a spot weld between the crate and tray it was then considered part of the truck not part of the load, therefore legal.
If you meet a cranky cop then you still may need to go to court to defend yourself even if technically you are right.
Bottom line is it is unlikely you will get a definative answer from an official
AnswerID: 367258

Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:35

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:35
The max' permissable width of a trailer/load is 2500mm , anything over that is then oversize,
Is it any different than towing a 2.500 m Caravan ,
I have piloted older low loaders that when the trailer is widened the wheels don't....looks unstable, whereas the Drake 100 tonne Swing Wing floats when widened out the wheels widen too, so as with the old trailer the extremities of the trailer and load is way out from the wheels.
at only 2400mm you should not have any problems, go into a paint shop or Supercheap and get a can of Pink Fluro and spray it on the front and rear edges about 300mm in, use pink , not yellow ..... pink is more visible. of course you really don't need to do that but because the panels will be narrow in Height it would ensure other motorists will see it.

.


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AnswerID: 367269

Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:54

Thursday, May 28, 2009 at 22:54
I'll just add a little more , the mongrels are too busy chasing truckies trying to earn a living where the revenue is much higher, therefor a piddlee little car trailer they won't bother , the dollars are not high enough..

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AnswerID: 367273

Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Friday, May 29, 2009 at 08:43

Friday, May 29, 2009 at 08:43
Just strap 'em down with a pretty red rag at each corner.

All this hassle over a few inches !!!

Truth be known.....one probably spends more time, energy and money researching this sort of stuff than the fine would be worth if you were pulled up.

Dont forget to get a PERMIT to breathe.....lol.


Cheers.....Lionel.
AnswerID: 367334

Reply By: tim_c - Friday, May 29, 2009 at 16:43

Friday, May 29, 2009 at 16:43
Wigger, it seems that you could have your load overhanging each side (ie. LHS, RHS, rear) by 150mm, upto a maximum of 2500mm total width.

If you are talking about welding/bolting/attaching bearers (ie. widening the trailer), it would be a 'modification' to the trailer from its original specification. The lights might have to be relocated (probably not) but that is a secondary issue. If you modify the trailer, you will need to get it inspected and the modifications approved so it can be re-registered (not worth the hassle).

As was said, just stand them up on the trailer and tie them on securely - I doubt height will be a problem since the max. allowable height is more than 4m!
AnswerID: 367424

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