Permits for Northern Territory Feedback

Has anyone else found these permits confusing? When I initially inquired I was told to apply for an entry permit because camping is not allowed under Transit permits. I later applied for an Entry permit and got issued a Transit permit.

Condition 6 says "It is expected that the road will be travelled in one day and that camping will not be required"
Condition 7 says "In an emergency camping is permitted within thirty metres of the roadside"
Condition 11 says "Camping is only permitted 50m from the centre point line either side of the road."

The permit was issued for 4 days.

How can a permit be for transit only but allow the transit over 4 days but not allow camping? The only thing I can think of is that some conditions apply to one of the roads I will be travelling and other conditions apply to the other road. But there is no break or any other indication in the list of conditions.

Alex
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Reply By: Member - Footloose - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 18:54

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 18:54
Surely these are questions you should take up with the issuing authority?
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Reply By: tim_c - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 19:09

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 19:09
Alex, hope you can get it sorted with whoever issues the permits, or should I say "Visas" - you'd think you were going to be travelling to another country (which visa do I apply for? Transit, Single Entry, Multiple Entry, Tourist, etc.?)
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Follow Up By: The Top End Explorer - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 22:05

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 22:05
Education is your friend.
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Reply By: equinox - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 19:24

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 19:24
CLC or NLC?

Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.

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Follow Up By: Alex70 - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 19:38

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 19:38
CLC
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Follow Up By: equinox - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 19:54

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 19:54
Alex,

Somethings up with those conditions.

I can't find them on the CLC website.

CLC transit permit conditions

CLC entry permit conditions

If you were issued with a transit permit instead of an entry permit I would suggest, as Footy has, to contact the CLC and inform them of their error.

If you let us know where exactly you wish to go, then someone who has been on the same / similar trip could probably offer some advice, even comment on their written conditions.

Cheers
Alan
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Follow Up By: Alex70 - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 21:59

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 21:59
Hi Alan

The conditions I quoted were from the 23 Special Conditions added to the standard conditions that your link shows.

I am going from Alice Springs to Kintore, down the Sandy Blight Junction Road to the Great Central Highway and then east to Uluru.

I will get back to them as you suggest - I was just not wanting to become annoying by going back repeatedly

Alex
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 20:19

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 20:19
Hi Alex,
We have applied for permits many times, our last time only a couple of weeks ago.
From what we have found out in the past, is that they are what they state, Transit - to travel from point A to point B in the most direct route and not to detour from the prescribed road. Depending on where you are travelling, most transit permits allow to enter certain Aboriginal Communities for the purpose of obtaining fuel only. The reason I believe for the 4 days to travel is flexibility in the case of the unexpected happening
I asked one permit officer once what happens if caught without a valid permit. I was promptly told that heavy fines apply in caught, yet over all the years that we have travelled through Aboriginal Permit Lands in South Australia, Western Australia and the Northern Territory, we have never once been ask to show our permits. I personally do not like applying for permits, as if we are a free country, we all should be free to travel where we like, without permits, bur do the right thing so as not to give the authorities any excuse to shut down areas because people do the wrong thing.

Cheers

Stephen
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Follow Up By: Alex70 - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 21:54

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 21:54
Hi Stephen

I don't think they were giving me flexibility. I originally said I would take about 5 days but wanted the permission for 2 weeks so that I could be flexible when I started. They originally gave me 2 days. I got back to them and pointed out that its over 900km and that it could not be done safely in 2 days and that I thought it should be 4 days minimum and they gave me four days.

I take the suggestion by others that I should contact them, but have already got back to them once. I did not want to keep annoying them, but guess I should get back again.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 23:00

Friday, Jun 05, 2009 at 23:00
Hi Alex,
We did the similar route that you intend to do, but in reverse last year. From memory, you will require 5, yes 5 permits for the route. Two separate permits for the WA side and 3 permits for the NT side. All that we did was give then the proposed dates and hoped all worked out well, as we had to travel over 2000 kilometres from home to start the trip, we had lots of rain, so out timetable of proposed dates was thrown out of the window. What were supposed to do, pack up and come home - not if your life, The main thing is that you have the correct permits, at least you are showing them that you are trying to do the right thing.
When we had to camp in some remote places, we get well clear of the road and out of sight. I am not saying that this is the correct thing to do, but it is impossible to keep to their strict time table on where and when you should be where.

Have a great trip and make sure that you do the side trip to the top of the Sir Frederick Range - low range first and straight up. You will find our calling EO card in the tin in the rock cairn.


Cheers

Stephen
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Follow Up By: Alex70 - Sunday, Jun 07, 2009 at 20:11

Sunday, Jun 07, 2009 at 20:11
Hi Stephen

I assume you say 3 permits because the trip is over 3 roads. I only got one permit but it covers all three roads.

I had heard about Sir Fred range. Was interested, but don't have low range.

Alex
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Jun 07, 2009 at 22:48

Sunday, Jun 07, 2009 at 22:48
Hi Alex,
That seems very strange, as even though the travel in the NT is covered under the CLC, we had to have separate permits for each section, and from what I have noticed on the CLC web site under permits, they have not changed. Below are a list of all the permits that we required and were all separate:

1. Permit to travel from the National Park Boundary at the Olgas to the NT/WA Border. You will require this permit. from the CLC

2. Permit from the Ngaanyatjarra Council for travel from the WA Border to the Sandy Blight Junction Turn Off. You will require this permit from the Ngaanyatjarra Council in Alice Springs.

3. Permit to travel the Sandy Blight Junction Track inside WA to the NT Border from the Ngaanyatjarra Council - You will need this Permit.

4. Permit from the CLC to travel from the WA/NT Border to Past Kintore in the NT. - You will need this permit

5 Permit from the CLC for the Haasts Bluff Aboriginal Land that included passing through Papunya.


Unless things have changed only very recently, I think that you have not applied for enough permits, as there was not just one permit or is nor that covered all areas.


I would be very interested to know of any difference, as this years trip again requires 2 separate permits to get into and out of the NT into WA.


Cheers

Stephen
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Follow Up By: Alex70 - Sunday, Jun 07, 2009 at 23:58

Sunday, Jun 07, 2009 at 23:58
Interresting, Stephen

Never the less, the one permit I got from the CLC says
Name of Aboriginal Land Trust(s): Petermann and Haasts Bluff Aboriginal Land Trusts
Specific area(s) of entry: Tjukaruru Road, Kintore Road, Sandy Blight Road

I have told the Ngaanyatjarra Council that I wish to travel 2 and 3 above, so it remains to be seen whether they issue one or two permits.

Alex
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:54

Monday, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:54
Hi Alex
Lets hope that they are lifting their game. At least you have shown the correct concerns and applied for permits.

You will have a great trip, take your time and allow about 3 days on the Sandy Blight Junction Track.


Cheers

Stephen
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Follow Up By: Alex70 - Monday, Jun 08, 2009 at 11:58

Monday, Jun 08, 2009 at 11:58
Thats what I would like to do Stephen. Thats what the trek notes on ExplorOz say.

What about the Kintore road from the Tanami track into Kintore? Is it worth a good look or is it better to do it quickly to spend more time on Sandy Blight Junction road?

Alex
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Monday, Jun 08, 2009 at 13:22

Monday, Jun 08, 2009 at 13:22
Hi Alex
There is some interesting scenery from Papunya out to Kintore. We spent one night out in the scrub half way between Papunya and Kintore. Do not rush any section, take your time and take it all in. When you drive into Kintore, the fuel bowsers are about 200 metres from the store. Check on the opening times, as they usually have very long lunch breaks. There are many fine locations along the SBJ Track to pull of the road for the most perfect camps. One day we could not resist one such location and pulled in at 2.30pm for a very early camp and just soaked up the atmosphere. That's what it is all about, taking your time and enjoying the scenery. You said that you do not have low range, but do not worry, you would only have need it if going to the top of the Sir Frederick Range. Under no circumstances try to do that track without low range, you will do lots of damage to you vehicle and could be very dangerous.

The most important advise is take your time and take it all in.


Have a great trip

Cheers

Stephen

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 23:27

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 23:27
Member - Stephen L (Clare SA):


Do not for one minute think we live in a free country

we have freedoms. More than many country and not as much as someothers

but this is not a free country
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Reply By: Motherhen - Saturday, Jun 06, 2009 at 00:46

Saturday, Jun 06, 2009 at 00:46
Hi Alex

Just got mine for CLC for Gary Junction Road - Border (near Kintore) to Papunya, and same conditions as on yours. That is one road only. I applied for a three week period (maximum they allow), and hope to cover the day or two we travel through within that window, as our time frames are still uncertain - not even left home yet. The 30 metres from the edge is 'road reserve' so OK to stop on. Same when travelling through station country. 50 metres from the centre of the road doesn't equate. Condition 8 is repeated as condition 9, so their proof reading isn't good.

When we were at Alice Springs, we applied for Uluru/Kata Tjuta to WA border using the maximum three weeks, and when it looked like we might be later, i applied for another for a further three weeks. I didn't say i already had one, so had a six week period to cross. We were well into the second one, so was glad i applied for the second permit.

The WA side of the Gary Junction has to be approved which can take a few weeks, so i have applied, again guessing at the dates, in the hope it comes through in time.

Safe travels

Motherhen

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Follow Up By: Alex70 - Sunday, Jun 07, 2009 at 20:22

Sunday, Jun 07, 2009 at 20:22
Hi Motherhen

I am surprised you got 3 weeks. I had initially asked for 2 weeks, wanting to give myself some flexibility but, as I said, got 2 days. Good to hear that a second application may work.

Yes, 2 of my special conditions were duplicates. Not sure what could be the reason behind that.

I applied for the WA permits at the same time (3 weeks ago) but have not got anything yet.
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Jun 07, 2009 at 21:57

Sunday, Jun 07, 2009 at 21:57
Hi Alex

Application form says maximum 21 days, so i gave the date taking the full time span. At the rate we are going, i may need to apply again, but as it was pretty well instant on line, it should be no trouble.

The WA side may be more of a problem if i have to change, as i haven't heard yet, and it says it can take weeks, and it was only last week i applied. Also i do not travel with a printer, so cannot print out the permit once we get going, so hope it comes within the three weeks - unlikely from your experience.

Poor proof reading.

Mh
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 21:50

Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 21:50
Alex, have you heard from the DIA re WA side permit yet? I haven't, and we are due to leave internet connection in a few days time.

Mh
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Follow Up By: Alex70 - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 16:28

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 16:28
Not a peep, Mh

They said it takes up to 3 weeks. I posted my application 32 days ago.

Alex
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Follow Up By: Alex70 - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 16:31

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 16:31
I also have not heard from the CLC since I asked then about offering me a Transit permit for 4 days with ambiguous permission to camp. I guess I just run with the one I have
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 22:24

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 22:24
Finally got back to the thread Alex, thanks to help from other members when the search didn't pick up this thread. I am having problems with Exploroz.

Yes, just go with the one from CLC so long as it covers the roads you need. At least they send you the permit straight away, unlike the DIA.

Mh
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 22:38

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 22:38
Hi Alex

DIA website says -

"Reserves Marked with an Asterisk, are closed communities and require approval. If one of these is selected there will be a waiting time until your Permit is approved. This could take a number of weeks and is not guaranteed"

When i read that, i put in an application guessing at dates and can't even remember which dates i put, but think i put a two week span.

I am away from home and cannot access the email acknowledgement i got from them to see what they said about time frame. I don't think i included the dates i put on the application either. Did you get an email acknowledgement?

Mh


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Follow Up By: Alex70 - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 23:26

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 23:26
Hi Stephen

Sorry, but I did not read your last couple of posts that well: you asked about my application to the DIA. I applied to the Ngaanyatjarra Council, as they are the relevant body (according to the Permits part of ExplorOz). As far as I know they do not have a web site. I applied by post. I gave them my email address but have heard nothing by email or snail mail.

I just looked at the DIA and saw that I needed permission from them for the Great Central Hwy bit of my trip. I got it immediately on line (I gather there was no wait because I was not going into one of the places with an *)

Alex
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Reply By: Bob of KAOS - Saturday, Jun 06, 2009 at 22:30

Saturday, Jun 06, 2009 at 22:30
Alex

The whole permit system is a horses RRRs.

Just got back from a trip with legit permits but it would have been impossible to 'transit' the approved route in anything but an F111.

The actual Traditional Owners couldn't give a rodents (rectum) about people like us camping as we respectfully travel aboriginal lands.

I believe the problem lies with a few (or maybe even one) bolshy anthropologists employed by the CLC who want to keep us out, and the residents living in the squalid past.

It may be that permits are not legally required at present. I'm not a lawyer but that's my impression. We still get them though.

We camp in the areas we have transit permits for. We camp well off the road ie way over 50 meters.

Bob
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Reply By: OzTroopy - Monday, Jun 22, 2009 at 09:46

Monday, Jun 22, 2009 at 09:46
Its about time this "permit system" was sorted.

Public thoroughfares built and/or maintained with public money are exactly that - public access

If those roads lead to commercial/medical/govt administration etc built with public money - they should also be public access as should the facilities.

It should be enough that veh registration/dvrs lic details be provided to the state transport authority along with an expected itinerary ... at no cost. Suspicious persons found "loitering" in "private" areas of native reserves could have their rego checked against the tpt dept list by the POLICE.

"Traditional" areas of importance should be gazetted as private property belonging to the family group / land council claiming it. These "traditional areas" should also be devoid of western influence e.g. buildings/roads/funding etc ... ensuring the "traditional" value of the location.


Then again I suppose the permit system as it is - could be expanded nationwide so that I had to provide permission for individuals to loiter in my street and yard at night .... hmmmm - that has merit ........



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Reply By: Motherhen - Friday, Jul 03, 2009 at 16:26

Friday, Jul 03, 2009 at 16:26
Hi Alex

Did you ever get that permit? We had friend go through the Sand Blight Junction then Gary Junction roads to Alice, and their permit was waiting for them in Alice, for their transit dates, but dated AFTER the date specified their trip. We never heard back from them at all.

Mh

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