Engine oil analysis

Submitted: Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 13:43
ThreadID: 69981 Views:2882 Replies:5 FollowUps:15
This Thread has been Archived
I am contemplating getting my engine oil tested.
20 litres of engine oil cost me $130 the other day.
20 year old engine technology and the oils of the day, 5000 kms is recommended.

But, todays' oils are presumably much better technology, and I figure get the oil tested at 5000Km to see what was happening.

I want to look after the engine, it's got to last me a long time.
But oil prices going the way they are, I won't have any money left to go anywhere in my car.

If the results of an analysis come back good at 5000Kms, can I stretch it another 1 or 2K between changes?

What do you think?

Dave
'Wouldn't be dead for quids'

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 13:53

Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 13:53
Dave, Why not install a by-pass filter on the engine oil and change the bypass filter every 5000ks and change the engine oil and standard spin on filter every 10,000ks or 20,000ks Most bypass filters clean oil to about 1 micron, thats much cleaner than engine oil is from new. The bypass filter picks up very small particles and keeps you spin on filter cleaner so it can be left on the vehicle longer. You can save money and the bypass filter will pay for its self fairly quickly. Worth a thought.. Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

There's time to rest when you're dead,
Get out and do something instead!

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 370896

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 13:58

Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 13:58
Dave, forgot to mention that a bypass setup is about $150 and elements are a bout $6 to $10 each. In a petrol engine, the colour of the oil stays like honey, diesels still goes black but is free of carbon, there is a simple test to prove this. Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

There's time to rest when you're dead,
Get out and do something instead!

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 638159

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 14:26

Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 14:26
Totally agree with Michael,

I have fitted a Amsoil dual remote bypass filtration system and in theory (at least), I should be able to change my oil at around 50,000klm intervals.

I too am getting the oil lab tested periodically, just to be sure I'm doing the right thing.\\

Roachie
0
FollowupID: 638162

Follow Up By: Dave B ( BHQ NSW) - Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 14:32

Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 14:32
I hadn't thought along those lines Michael.

I was just thinking that I didn't want a big budget deficit like some others around the place, so where can I save a quid. I can't raise taxes to make up the shortfall hahaha.

I don't want to shoot myself in the foot,and save a $ or two here, and shorten the life of the engine by not doing the change at 5000k.
I can get an oil analysis for about $35.00.

I rarely use my vehicle for short runs, so the driving conditions are reasonably predictable apart from the dust on the outback roads.
That way I figure that contamination from soot and condensation would be much the same through the life of the oil change.

I might be quite wrong in my assumptions though.
'Wouldn't be dead for quids'

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 638163

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 14:57

Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 14:57
Roachie!
A test of clean oil (physically clean, small micron particle) Get a small mirror from a ladies powder compact or a piece of mirror and a clear piece of glass. Place a drop of oil from your dipstick with the bypass filter and a drop of oil from a mate dipstick with a diesel engine without a bypass filter on the miirror and place the clear glass on top and squeeze gently.. The bypass oil will go clear or dark honey colour and the non bypass oil will stay black.. Basically the carbon is removed from the bypass oil and the other not. The bypass oil will always look black to the eye when you change it or on the dipstick because it will still pulverise some of the carbon and stain the oil even when it is perfectly clean.. try it, you may already have.. Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

There's time to rest when you're dead,
Get out and do something instead!

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 638174

Follow Up By: ob - Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 16:29

Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 16:29
The thing with oil analysis is as Roachie has said, getting it done once doesn't tell you much. Testing at regular intervals, and this depends on the milages you travel, will build up a picture over time that will tell you how well the oil is standing up and may warn you of an impending disaster if the levels of any metal that makes up a wearing surface inside your engine start to rise dramatically.

Cheer ob
0
FollowupID: 638196

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Monday, Jun 22, 2009 at 08:23

Monday, Jun 22, 2009 at 08:23
roachie
who are you using to test your oil
do you get a chart (or print out) of data showing what is happening ie wear metals, moisture and tan. etc etc
0
FollowupID: 638562

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:14

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:14
I haven't had an analysis done for about a year as I had some issues with the bypass set-up (do you recall all the stories about me flooding the Stuart Hwy with oil a year or 2 ago...???? hahaha). So, I went back to using standard oil filtration and 5000klm changes for a while.

A few months ago I decided to chuck the Warn winch and re-fit the Amsoil set-up where the winch used to be. So, I've done about 7500klm since refitting and filling the sump with 5w30 Amsoil. I'm just about due to take a sample and send it off to Castrol Lab in Sydney.

In the past, they have emailed me a comprehensive printout of the oil's status.

Now that I'm not working, I will see if I can work out how to scan one of the previous reports I received back from them and post it up on here.

Roachie
0
FollowupID: 641677

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:39

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:39
Well, I've reached the limits of my computer technological limits I'm afraid!!

I managed to scan the analysis report (it saved automatically as a Powerpoint document). Then I saved it in My Pictures thinking that it (ie: the puter) would let me upload the picture onto the net or into photobucket...........

But, sadly, I can't seem to download/upload/convert etc it into anything that the EO site will accept.

I'm sure it's just me; not the computer.

Roachie
0
FollowupID: 641680

Follow Up By: Member No 1- Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:57

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:57
start Power point and open it up in Power Point and save the pic as a bmp or something

or re-scan and set the scanner to save the image as something else

0
FollowupID: 641687

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 16:20

Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 16:20
Your motor is a 12H-T. Not really old technology - many will say it was ahead of its time.....others will simply say its the best motor ever put into a LandCruiser. Its very hard to wear one out.

It is direct injection which means your oil doesn't get contaminated with soot as soon as the indirect injection diesels. For normal running, I'd go to 10,000k oil and filter changes with this motor. If you want to test the oil for peace of mind, do it at 10,000k.

I think it is a waste of time and money to fit a bypass filter on this motor.
I would also be using cheaper oil - any 15W40 diesel engine oil, CF or greater is good for this motor - I buy mine for about $80 for 20 litres.

Cheers
Phil
AnswerID: 370925

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Monday, Jul 13, 2009 at 01:33

Monday, Jul 13, 2009 at 01:33
1HD-FTE is recommended CD or up, so CF as minimum even could be overkill?

Out of curiousity what type/brand oil do you get for $80-20 litres?
0
FollowupID: 641511

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jul 13, 2009 at 19:02

Monday, Jul 13, 2009 at 19:02
Gday Fisho,
Fuchs Titan UNIVERSAL HD SAE 15W-40 CG-4/SJ is about $80 for 20 litres and
Fuchs Titan ULTRALUBE SAE 15W-40 CI-4/SL is a few dollars more.
I get mine from Adelaide Truck and 4wd spares on Regency Rd.

Cheers
Phil
0
FollowupID: 641599

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Monday, Jul 13, 2009 at 22:59

Monday, Jul 13, 2009 at 22:59
FUCHs is good stuff, we used it in our fishing boat in everything, main engines, gearboxes, hydraulics, steering. All same grade.
I had forgotten all about it, might try and track it down here again

Cheers!
0
FollowupID: 641648

Reply By: Martyn (WA) - Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 19:27

Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 19:27
Dave,
Not only is the oil technology more advanced so is the fuel you're burning,in a lot of cases you're burning diesel with 10 or less ppm sulphur in it depends which brnd you buy over East. The sulphur used to be 500 ppm + + in some cases, this is one of the elements that does the damage especially when you mix this with water doing short trips. Metals technology for piston rings and liners if you have them has also moved on. It's all good stuff that prolongs the life of your oil. I change the filter at 5000 klms and the oil at 10,000 klms, filters are cheap and the most critical component in the lubrication system,as others have pointed out.
My opinion others may vary.
Keep the shiny side up

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 370950

Reply By: Dave B ( BHQ NSW) - Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 20:59

Friday, Jun 19, 2009 at 20:59
Thanks for the replies guys.

I usually only drive the vehicle on longer runs. Most times it would be at least an hours drive or more.
100,000 K in 15 years.
It isn't a town runabout, you don't need a 4WD for that IMHO.

5000K is up since I last changed the oil, and I was a bit surprised about the price of the oil. (Dello 400)
It had been quite a while since I bought the last drum.

I just thought that I might get an analysis on the oil for peace of mind, just to see how good/bad it is after my typical 5000K.

Dave
'Wouldn't be dead for quids'

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 370964

Follow Up By: Krakka - Monday, Jun 22, 2009 at 06:09

Monday, Jun 22, 2009 at 06:09
To be honest Dave, if you have only done 100,000K in 15 yrs thats only 20 oil and filter changes in 15yrs, I wouldn't be worried at all about the price of oil or filters for that matter.

Regards

Krakka
0
FollowupID: 638552

Reply By: Flywest - Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 22:37

Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 22:37
Dave,

I did a bit of used oil testing on 3 diesel vehicles in our family a couple years back when i converted 2 of them to diesel gas injection.

I did put a sub micron filter on one of the converted deisels.

What found out is that theres MORE than one way to skin a cat and not all used oil analysis are the same.

The cheap oil anaysis ($35) often DON'T measure the amount of soot so - you can't tell if your sub micron filter is mking any difference or not.

Here in WA - Westrac the CATERPILLAR place do 2 types of used oil analysis - one WITHOUT soot reporting and a more expensive one WITH the soot levels reporting.

ALSO - something else I found out!

Not ALL testing places do the same type of testing - some have one way of doing it and others have another way.

I decided to "test them out" bye send 2 samples of the SAME used oil to 2 different labs (one here n Oz and one in the USA).

I got results back that were no where near the same - on exactly the same used oil go figure!

Next - as others have said you need to keep testing the oil to watch for changing trends.

Lastly?

You need to get hold of a VIRGIN oil analysis t0o know what was IN the new oil you put in the sump in the forst place!

How can you tell from ONE used oil analysis what the results mean, IF you don't know what the clean virgin oil had in it when you first put it in!

I had one sample used oil analysis come back with a certain level of something in it and the analysis "expert" claimed - that was a bit high and could mean this or that or the other, yet wheni checked the virgin analysis it had EXACTLY that level of the particular element in it when it was new oil, i.e NONE had entered the sample from my engine - it was ALL in there from the new oil - so obviusly the "expert" hadn't bothered to look at what levels of that elem,ent the NEW oil had in it in making his "expert recommendation".

The different companys use different testing techniques for certain things and report on the results in different units as a result of the tests they use.

Soot levels for example require "interferometer spectography" for reliable measurements - whle the glass and mirror method might give a good visual estimation clue, and a bush mechanic might wipe the dipstick on white tissue and guess at the soot content.

There IS a place to learn all about used oil analysis - it is the web forums at BITOG (Bob IS The Oil Guy). Anything you want to know about oil and ol testing is at that forum, I learned a LOT there.

Cheers
AnswerID: 371096

Follow Up By: Dave B ( BHQ NSW) - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 21:13

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 21:13
Thanks for that info Flywest, I didn't realise there were so many levels of testing.

Dave
'Wouldn't be dead for quids'

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 638524

Follow Up By: Flywest - Monday, Jun 22, 2009 at 01:24

Monday, Jun 22, 2009 at 01:24
I didn't either when i started Dave - i learned the hard way (by making the mistake), of not getting the more expensive testing kit - Westrac only told me about the dearer testing with soot reporting when I ASKED, & after I'd already bought about 6 of the cheaper kits! :o(

I guess I am the crash test dummy for this sort of thing! ;o)
I aint real bright but I can lift heavy things! LOL

I did at least work out that this isn;t a very exact science.

I even caught one of the labs out who had "mixed up" our 3 samples when they opened the box and confused which oil & subsequent report, went with each vehicle.

The test kits include a sealed plastic bottle within another plastic bottle - you put the paper with details in the dry outer container, they obviously mixed up the 3 papers with the bottles inside (because i marked the inner containers with the oil in them with my own code and matched the papaers with details to each bottle meticulously so this wouldn't be an issue when i sent them off.

Somethng to consider for the cynics among us......

IF I were a testing laboratory, associated with a business that both services and sells new equipment, AND sales were a bt slow that month - any such "mistake" that might give YOU someone elses "bad oil result' bye mistake COULD lead to you pannicking your engines about to die and rushing into an agreement to have it fully rebilt in THEIR workshop at great cost,

Or,

You might even be convinced your machine is near screwed and to trade it for a lot less than its really worth on a NEW replacement machine, specially if your a contractor and your income depends on it. (a Win Win for the Sales guy - he gets a GOOD machine at knackered machine price, because of a errant used oil analysis, AND sells a NEW machine that wasn't really required.

Winks as good as a nod to a blind man on a galloping horse.

Cheers
0
FollowupID: 638550

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (14)