Landcruiser 100 Series Owners I need help

Submitted: Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 19:33
ThreadID: 70010 Views:6935 Replies:8 FollowUps:10
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I have a 2000 HZJ105R wagon. 170k on the clock. It has developed a 'shudder' for the want of a better word. Comes in when in Fifth or Forth around the 1500 rpm and between 50 to 70km/h depending on what gear. Once it begins to shudder you can either drop back a gear, or apply more juice and accelerate through it. I have replaced all control arm bushes, injectors and had deisel pump checked. Any ideas.
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Reply By: Member - DOZER- Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 19:42

Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 19:42
It is related to the pump setup...1500 is a little low for 4th and it a surgeing motor like on and off the throttle?? if so, pump....
AnswerID: 371072

Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 22:57

Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 22:57
There is NOTHING wrong with being around 1500 rpm in ANY gear unless it's at full throttle for extented periods, it's not a piddly little motor thats NEEDS a turbo to function.

Peak torque for natural 1HZ is 2000-2200PRM and it isn't much more than what its got at 1500.
FollowupID: 638398

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:41

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 10:41
Well in answer to that.

How come that my 1HD-FTE in top gear towing runs at up to 400deg post turbo but in 4th gear runs at least 75 deg cooler Even on a flat road.

Conclusion Engine is lugging and is running harder as its not at optimum revs for speed.

My father had a Valiant and used to stick it in top too early and it used to pink and hop and baulk.
His reasoning was "Its a big six its meant to"

FollowupID: 638426

Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 16:30

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 16:30
How many electronically controlled auto's allow the engine to run around at as little as 1000rpm when little throttle input reqiured???? ALL OF THEM!! cars and 4by's, we are talking 60-70 Kph aren't we

READ my first response again.
I'm NOT talking about towing, nor was there any mention of a turbo.

Also it's a bit of a stretch comparing the performance virtures of a petrol valiant to a 1HZ, have a think of that .

FollowupID: 638481

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 17:04

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 17:04
Very sorry i spoke

I forgot you cant argue with someone who knows everything

I'll just go and polish my non stainless exhaust.
FollowupID: 638486

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 17:35

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 17:35
The point I was making which you obviously either couldnt or wouldnt see was that any motor running in too high a gear below its optimum torque band will do strange things like the original poster said was happening.
Whether it be a Valiant a Mini or a Road train.
Back to exhaust.

FollowupID: 638492

Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 18:04

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 18:04
Hang on. . . this is going pearshaped.

I'm saying that just because you are at 1500rpm in 4th or 5th, why is weird stuff is going to happen.
If it is flat and the vehicle (1HZ) has no load there is no reason why it can't amble along in whatever gear at 1500 and cause symptoms outlined by the poster of the thread, saying that he is in a gear too high is NOT the problem, even at full throttle in 4th at 1500, will NOT cause issues as described.

I own a 1HZ and have MANY times allowed it to pull down to 1000rpm at full throttle (cresting a sand dune for instance) and i have no issue with doing that again because it's only for a short period.

I've already acknowledge that its below it's peak torque, however the torque band of a 1HD-FTE starts at 1400, so why is there issue with driving in this range?
I'm not picking a fight here, I'm asking why do you (and others) feel that you are doing something wrong by CRUISING around the 1500 range?
FollowupID: 638499

Follow Up By: Member - DOZER- Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 22:31

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 22:31
The higher the gear, the more fuel thats required to keep things moving....hense more exhaust temp in the response was taken out of context...whilst the hdt used to blow up bigends, the 1hz didnt....and 1500 is not too low for the motor to lug...i agree...its just that at that speed, in 5th gear, the motor is reaching its limits with regard to "effortless pulling power" and the pump is oscilating timing or fuel characteristics. I have read somewhere that the governor spring tension is the cause of this..but the bottom line is i dont know...i just hear of it alot, and the shift back to 4th at that speed is the best option.
FollowupID: 638544

Reply By: Member - Robert (WA) - Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 20:31

Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 20:31
Hi You could also check the unijoints as they can cause a shutter some times


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AnswerID: 371078

Reply By: viz - Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 20:32

Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 20:32
Driveline - low frequency rumble? If you knock it into neutral and let the engine revs drop, is it still there?

This is something hard to diagnose in the comfort of the computer chair, but it is the only thing that I can think of having been through something like this myself recently

AnswerID: 371079

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 22:31

Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 22:31
Tyres even Had a Commodore that shuddered thru the steering wheel when starting moving in the morning.
Replaced Rack, high pressure hose, still did it .

Put a new set of front tyres on and it was gone

1500 is pretty low to be in top gear as well

FollowupID: 638392

Reply By: philldeb - Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 22:30

Saturday, Jun 20, 2009 at 22:30
Could be a number of things,tail shaft balance,eng mounts,mud on inner wheels etc
AnswerID: 371093

Reply By: Horacehighroller - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 15:04

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 15:04
Gday Al,

If when it starts "juddering" and you lift the foot then re-apply does it go away for the time being?

Likewise, I think you indicate that if you floor the accelerator the "juddering" will stop.

Does it happen after the engine has been running for a while?

If you answer "Yes" to the above 3 points the simplest suggestion is replace the fuel filter.

I am told that the cause is loose "flyweights" in the pump combined with low revs and low "internal pump fuel pressure."
When the engine is cold the "thick" fuel increases pressure preventing the problem.
A partially blocked fuel filter will decrease pressure helping to cause the problem.

If you want the story of my 2000 HZJ-105 lemon just ask.

AnswerID: 371177

Follow Up By: Als gone fishin - Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 17:59

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 17:59
Thanks Pete, your reply is on the mark. Yes, if I accelerate the juddering goes away, similarily if I drop back a gear, usually 5th to 4th, it also goes away. I will be replacing fuel filter next weekend during pre trip service, however I always change it at 10,000km intervals anyway. It may have soemthing in it I guess.
Last week I had the vehicle at Sydney Deisel Injection Service at Smithfield, who tested the pump pressures and assured me they were okay. At that time I had a new set of injectors fitted as the vehicle was on its original set which had done 170,000ks.
I'm pretty sure that there is a small inline filter, mesh type on the intake of the pump. I haven't checked this one myself so I will also do that.
All other sugestions I have received prior to yours I had already carried out. All I seem to have done is started some "Too low a rev or not" war between two fellas.

Anyway cheers and thx for your time. I would be interested in your 100 series experiences, I do a lot of remote travelling, for warned is for armed.

Cheer Al
FollowupID: 638498

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 22:18

Sunday, Jun 21, 2009 at 22:18
The surge is caused from the fuel pump governor trying to compensate either timing or fuel. For those others reading this, i am not saying it is bad for the motor...although 1500 is getting down towards low oil pressure for the load exerted on the bigends...I am no eggspurt, but this is not uncommon for 1hz' 4th or 5th at that rpm...with feathered throttle, they just seem unsettled. For instance....if you try and stall a 1hz with the clutch, it is quite hard...because the governor has the ability to increase fuel when idle drops below idle setpoint....the governor doesnt just limit full speed, but also cuts and adds fuel when needed....but i do think at 1500 there would be more chance of a timing change happening.....internal pressures may still be good...did they rebuild the pump/pull it off the motor...or just give it the xray vision test?
AnswerID: 371258

Reply By: Member - Terry D (QLD) - Monday, Jun 22, 2009 at 19:25

Monday, Jun 22, 2009 at 19:25
Hi Al
I had exactly the same model and ks, same shudder, mainly in 5th, occasionally in 4th - went through the hoops, finally a specialist mechanical shop, sent me to a gear box place (I went to another to confirm), and bingo, gear box (all bar one of the gears, not sure which one now) stuffed. Complete rebuild. Sorry if that is your end result, but from what you describe, I'd bet that's it.
AnswerID: 371373

Follow Up By: Member - Scott B (QLD) - Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 at 22:25

Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 at 22:25
Hi Al and Terry
I have same model and same shudder. A diesel injection company I went to suggested it was a transmission problem. Terry, was your transfer box ok? I see your are from Queensland. Could I ask which gearbox place did you use?
FollowupID: 639405

Reply By: Member - Terry D (QLD) - Monday, Jun 29, 2009 at 19:17

Monday, Jun 29, 2009 at 19:17
Hello Scott
No transfer problem - 5th gear was badly worn followed by 4th and two others. I think it cost me about 3,500$. But fixed the problem. That was about 2 years ago, have since upgraded to a 200 series.
The gearbox specialist was Johnson Transmissions at Brendale. I can't remember his first name, but he told me that model's gearbox is good for about 180 - 200,000 ks when the gears start to show the wear. He showed me the gears (once out) and those of a Nissan, sadly the Nissan's gears were significantly larger. Said the 100 series manual gears were down sized from the 80 series - to cut costs (his view). Nissan lovers will be happy to hear this I'm sure.
Thats was my experience. Good luck
AnswerID: 372356

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