200 Series Diesel Test drive

Submitted: Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 at 20:45
ThreadID: 70813 Views:5391 Replies:12 FollowUps:32
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Last week we took a 200 series petrol for a spin and this week we finally got our hands on 200 series diesel.

It was only a test drive but we got to drive in up Victorias Mt Dandenong tourist road and even through a potholed slushy dirt road. While a long way from a 4wd situation the two drives, intermixed with 2 4wd trips in our
petrol GU Patrol have really helped form our opinions of the 200 series.

In short , they are a great car , a bit to big perhaps , but the only real reason for not having one is simply the cost of $96,000 for the basic GXL which would come down a bit no doubt, but with none to sell and buyers out there she's likely to remain an expensive beast.

The 4500 TD cruiser had massive amounts of power with little turbo lag, apart from a Porsche Cayenne this is the fastest car we have ever taken up this steep twisty climb.

It behaved beautifully , didn't put a foot wrong and its suspension soaked up the potholes well.

The annoying ticky ticky sound that has put us off so many diesels was almost unheard from inside the car and not objectionable outside of it.

One funny thing though, we drove the top of line sahara , and as i pulled up to the kerb I left steering with the wheels facing outwards and the car tried to tell me not to do this, after that it tried to park itself, however I had deliberately left it on a sharp muddy off angle kerb and its parking assist seemed to have issues with this and gave up - maybe humans still have a place.

After a couple of drives now I am beginning to appreciate the cars size - its doesn't look that big on paper but it is definately harder to see out of than our patrol. Mind you this model had first class rear view cameras.

Also this weekend we tried to access a beach and drove for kilometers down a narrow heavily overgrown track such that both out Patrols rear view mirrors were knocked in by branches and the cruiser would not have liked this
at all.


When we brought our Patrol it clearly stood out as a winner but this time around our research has found that none of the available options is without its own drawbacks.

Of the cars we consider serious contenders the following basic issues need to be considered.

New model Prado TD - simply underpowered

Patrol 4800 - good value @ $53k but Fuel efficentcy 15% below 200 series.

200 Series Petrol - big & expensive

200 series TD big & seriously to expensive

76 series cruiser - rough & haven't owned a car with leaf springs for 30 years.











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Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 at 21:26

Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 at 21:26
And that's why 2nd hand turbo diesel 100 series are one of the most sought after touring vehicles around. Nothing currently out there any better.
Cheers Craig.............
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 at 22:06

Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 at 22:06
You're right there Crackles.

Toyota did all the 100 series owners a favour with the 200.

That's not a bad thing either. I don't think the current Patrol had the same effect on its predecessor.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:33

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:33
It was interesting GB when we were touring with some friends in a 200 GXL and an identical Karavan, they were consistently putting in 8-9% more fuel each fill up. I was using lower tyre pressures too, which I thought would have been a greater penalty.

Crackles, it was interesting when we were seeking ours nearly two years ago, that we were being told by an advisor who is in the trade, the price was too high. He found out later, he was having to match it all the way if he wanted to buy them. Different market place for the 100s ;-)
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 19:33

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 19:33
Doesn't surprise me at all John. It's great to have that extra power and torque but those ponies have to be fed when you want them to work.

cheers, see you late September at St George.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Reply By: Isuzumu - Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 at 21:46

Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 at 21:46
Just a thought...maybe a VW Touareg V6 3.0 Lt TD 176KWs and 550NMs start price $74K
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 07:37

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 07:37
Definately a thought Isuzumu , probably more dealers out there for them than for Land rovers as well ?
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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 16:19

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 16:19
Toureg maintenance costs vs Toyota.?? The Toureg is way higher to maintain and there is no comparison in size and room which is why a lot of people buy the 200 Series.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 at 22:43

Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 at 22:43
The rough thing with the leaf springs sounds like the pick of the bunch :-))
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 07:42

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 07:42
Hi Phil

As I gave the 200 back they had a new 76 in the drive way and I asked sales people if I could take it , he went to check , and it had just been sold , the new owner was there , I could not try it. Was`really disapointed as it was also the last one they had.

I will check this further as it might be possible to free up the rear end with a coil spring over and the spacers .

I would like to see just how rough it is because they clearly have good points,
and there is no chance of it trying to park itself into a ditch.



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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:27

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:27
Robin, Crazie is driving one of those now with a few warm up bits and also extended range tanks. Not sure if you want to talk with him about it. Probably has heaps of Ironman stuff on it.

How are you going on a 79 replacement Phil? Not that you need to do that in the next decade.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 14:43

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 14:43
Gday Robin,
Must say I don't have an issue with the 79series rear leaf springs. The longer wheelbase improves the ride, and the leaf springs are very long - for extra travel and ride. They are way better than the 40/55 and 61 series Landcruisers I owned in the past. I put some heavy coil springs into my daughters 80series, and it rides a little better than the 79series, but not much in it.

Gday John,
Nothing happening. I'm going to stick with the 79series for another few years. The new V8 doesn't interest me - my 1HD-FTE would get the same numbers with a chip and exhaust, so I wouldn't consider the V8 until they sort the teething problems.

My enthusiasm for the EarthCruiser (Canter with custom back) was dampened by the almost $200k pricetag. Can't bring myself to spend that much on a vehicle that can't go faster than 100kph, and you have to pack it up everytime you go for a drive. Kathryn doesn't want to tow, so maybe I'll wear her down in a couple of years and we'd get a KK!!

Cheers
Phil
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Reply By: Blaze (Berri) - Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 at 23:57

Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 at 23:57
Robin it sounds like a Patrol 4800 on LPG would be the go then.

You can buy a lot of fuel for the $40K difference in price, between the Nissan and the Yota.

Maybe a VW Touareg V6 T/D may be a good choice also.
AnswerID: 375310

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 07:33

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 07:33
The Patrol on gas is a winner for Victoria Blaze , but the range issue is an important negative I guess - espically for one wanting to do Caning next year.

I have heard you can organize them to quickly remove the gas tank , and temporaliy put a long range one in - food for thought.
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Follow Up By: Blaze (Berri) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:05

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:05
Robin,

You will see that my Mitsi is LPG/ULP with a long range ULP tank and you are spot on in with the removal of the LPG and add on tank for things like the Canning.

I have done the Anne Beadell 1400k's on my 127ltr ULP and 55ltr LPG and I external Jerry Can, this was whilst towing also. So I certainly wouldn't buy a diesel for say 2 trips in Aus where you need the long range, the savings for the 10mths of the year that you can run LPG far outways the 2 extreme trips.

This is IMHO of course.


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Reply By: Member - Bucky, the "Mexican"- Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 02:40

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 02:40
Robin
For that kinda money , they would want to be good.

I must admit, when I had a drive of mates work ute, (let me get it right this time) ... 79 series ute....
My initial feeling was wow, and mind you still is.

maybe, maybe not, I wil lget one,...

All I know is that Mr Nissan better get it right, if he wants to compete, otherwise he is buggered.

Cheers
Bucky
AnswerID: 375320

Follow Up By: Member - Bucky, the "Mexican"- Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 02:47

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 02:47
Opps Correction

70 series V8 Ute !

There finally I got it

Cheers
Bucky
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 07:44

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 07:44
It really is amazing Bucky that for years now Nissan have done nothing new but to slighty downgrade there petrol cars to meet emissions requirements.
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Reply By: Blaze (Berri) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 03:26

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 03:26
4WDACTION did a survey a while back about what people would buy, now not that I'm a fan of either of these brands but if forced to buy one or the other.

As I said in that survey, I would buy the Neeeessan,

1st/ I would send it of and have 6.5Chev Diesel fitted (If I seriously wanted Diesel, again not my choice) Price to this point, $75000 and I would have a brand new 3ltr to sell, you never know there may be a market? LOL

2nd/ I would have the suspension done along with lockers Price now $79500

3rd/ Nxt have LPG fitted. Price rising to $83700

Lastly I would have Bar, Drawers, Fridge fitted. Total Price $87200

Now I would have a vehicle that would out pull the 200 series, go places it wouldn't even look at, get better economy with the gas injection and have drawers, fridge etc. Total price is still about $5000 below the Toyota and of course I would get an easy $10000 for the new the 3ltr for a couple of extended trips around Oz.



Let you all do the Maths..
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 04:20

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 04:20
6.5 Chev Diesel

Capacity

6.5 ltr 397 Cubic Inches

Kilowatt

130 @ 3400 rpm

Torque

420 Nm at 1700 RPM

Dont think this comes anywhere near the 200 series diesel-195kw/650nm??

plus you have a second hand motor and worse resale.
While it might be your preferance, it doesnt stack up on paper-i.e wont out pull 200series and half resale.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 07:36

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 07:36
Meet a guy on weekend whose mate has brought a brand new 3lt Nissan - took it straight to workshop and replaced with 307 holden engine.

Goes well - apparantly doesn't like water very much though.
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Follow Up By: Shaver - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 08:08

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 08:08
Like the old saying Robin, if you can't afford it, don't buy it. No offence ! I do detect that you may be a little pro Nissan though, but know deep down that the 200 is a far superior vehicle. Spend the money, the 200 is the only vehicle I get enjoyment out of driving. Try haggling with Dealers, you will be surprised with what you can come up with ! While you are just driving & looking they will probably think you are a wood duck. And no I am not a car salesman, just a happy 200 owner.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:20

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:20
G'day Blaze,

Mate, as the owner of a 6.5 V8 Patrol, let me tell you that there really are better options for re-powering one of these vehicles.

As quoted above, the big Chev donk is great for what it is; but it wouldn't even come close to the 4.5TD V8 Cruiser. I would even say that the project TONI would be a more powerful option.

Having said that, the Chev will pull all day and has no fancy computer to run amok at some stage in the future. I do admit that Toyotas don't seem to have had any reported issues with computers and MAFs etc, so that probably isn't an issue anyway......it's just that I like my "simple" motors.

I liken the Chev 6.5 to the Nissan TD42; a solid old-fashioned motor that will just keep going and going....... but not all that fuel efficient and not all that powerful for amount of cubic displacement they have.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Blaze (Berri) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:25

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:25
Fisho

Have you ever seen the 6.5 figures with LPG injection, also if pure power is what you want, you could put a Turbo also on the 6.5 with the change from selling the 3ltr and still end up paying less than the 200. Also the 6.5 doesn't have the high oil usage of the Yota V8.

Now for you're statement about resale, that is yet to be proved, we will see what the resale is in 6 yrs for Toyota 200. The 100 series which many believe is far better than the 200 is a point to look at, the 100 series Sahara, which for 2003 model cost over $80,000 new and sells now for about $35,000 I dont see that as good resale, which is the same as any high priced vehicle, I think resale would be the last thing I would think off in a purchase these days.

As I said in the piece above I wouldn't buy either..

Myself for power I would take the V10 Touareg with its 258KW and 850NM, sort of makes the Yota 200 laughable in comparison.

The Touareg is $115,000 Toyota Sahara is $105,000 and no comparison in appointments.


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Follow Up By: Blaze (Berri) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:28

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:28
Forgot to add, you can buy a S/h 200 4.5td with 15,000 - 25,000 k's for around $20,000 under new price, is that good resale?
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Follow Up By: Blaze (Berri) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:38

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:38
Roachie,

You know me mate, I'm a duel fuel guy so a nice Blown 6ltr GM donk running on LPG would be my choice LOL, Seeing my shop landlord is CAPA Performance, I seem to see motors all the time that would suit. $$$$$$$$$

Image Could Not Be Found
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:31

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:31
"Forgot to add, you can buy a S/h 200 4.5td with 15,000 - 25,000 k's for around $20,000 under new price, is that good resale?"

not so sure thats correct-there was a post on one of these forums complaining of Toyota's being sold for near new price cost when 6 months old? Having said that an immediate drop in value is standard after the vehicle is backed out of the yard.

However I think it would be apparent that the beloved Nissan Patrol suffers far in excess of Toyota from this syndrome.

I have a 100 series, but I think it might be the 80 that is universally respected. Mine is the HDJ100 (IFS) but the engine in this model is brilliant. Unfortunately the suspension is somewhat deficient
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Reply By: Member - Willie , Sydney. - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 09:11

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 09:11
Robin,

When you were doing the test drive, did you ask the salesman if the problems with the 200 had now been sorted out ? ie mystery excessive oil use and really bad dust problems.

Thanks,

Willie.
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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 16:16

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 16:16
All new vehicles come under scrutiny for one thing or another, excessive oil use? In which model? News to me..
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Follow Up By: Member - Willie , Sydney. - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 18:13

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 18:13
Excessive use of oil in the 200TD. If it's news to you, you must be the only one who doesn't know about it.
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Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 18:52

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 18:52
Or maybe Willy you are the only one that doesn't know that the oil issue was fixed 6 months ago and Toyota replace the oil pumps for free. Also the dust issue is usually poor installation of the tow wiring.
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Follow Up By: Member - Willie , Sydney. - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 19:43

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 19:43
Maybe not Boobook,

I have a friend with a 200TD. It is currently on what Toyota classify as an "oil watch". They cannot tell him what is causing the problem. Maybe they should just ask you Boobook.

The dust problem is not only caused by problems with the grommet when installing the wiring loom for the towing set-up. Many vehicles are suffering bad dust problems with no wiring loom installed. One in particular I was told about, was found to be missing the dust sealing within the front doors ( I do not know what form that takes ).

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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 19:51

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 19:51
Well thats it isn't it.? Toyotas are just plain crap.! I dunno why so many people buy them? Humm, makes you wonder.? From oil to dust and from dusk till dawn these Toyota stories just make me yawn.!


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Follow Up By: Member - Willie , Sydney. - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 20:06

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 20:06
That was terrable
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Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 21:08

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 21:08
Willie, while I don't know about your mate's vehicle, I do know that they put every vehicle on oil watch if the owner reports ecessive use. That is how they determine if it needs the pump. Has your mate had it done and it is still using excessive oil? I double that they will admit anything till they see it for themselves.

Re the other mate of a mate with the door seal, maybe it is faulty.
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Reply By: robertbruce - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:01

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:01
.
.
yep, better buy the 200

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25799944-23272,00.html
AnswerID: 375358

Reply By: TerraFirma - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 16:13

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 16:13
You mention $96,000 for the basic diesel GXl..I thought they were a little less than that, does that include options etc? Anyhow yes they are almost a $100k car which is big bucks. It is also worth bearing in mind that you don't get your money back on the diesel vs the petrol until 300,000Kms or therabouts.

On the $56k Patrol I see your point but it's not really a comparison of Apples and Apples. If the new Patrol comes eventually I'm tipping a $70k car, I could be wrong? The current Patrol is very dated now but for it's size and market price it addresses the big 4WD market well for around $50k.



AnswerID: 375397

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 17:36

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 17:36
Yep Terrafirma $96k basic - but it would have dropped to $89.9 IMHO which is a Patrol + $25-35k left over.
But my mission is still to decide if there is a car better than I have.

Its looking like that in terms of 4wd performance the answer is no , however the petrol and diesel 200 series have both more range, power and size (a negative for me).

Whereas new prado at $70 looks like it will match Patrol in size , lose out of power and 4wd ability a little , but is a range winner.

I.E. No car appears to be an all round winner.






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Follow Up By: robertbruce - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 17:42

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 17:42
yes... but if the patrol is bought there would be too much change left over...at the campsites everyone wont know what the tourag is and at least the crusier will keep the gossips quiet..
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Reply By: lees fishin - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 19:10

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 19:10
i have owned both patrols & landcruisers.
and i am a verry happy owner of a 200 series cruiser,dose every thing i want and more.
unfortunatly you get what you pay for !!!!
also diffrent cars and sizes of cars ,suit diffrent peoples needs.
buy the the car that suits your needs, at the price that suits your budget.
above all ,as you doing do your reaserch.!! and injoy your 4wding.

cheers
AnswerID: 375420

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2009 at 18:11

Tuesday, Jul 21, 2009 at 18:11
Hi Lees

If only they made the car I want , it would be a GU patrol with 200 series engine !
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Reply By: Member - Terry D (QLD) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 20:46

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 20:46
The GXL TTD are $80,000 give or take a few dollars - you are getting ripped off if quoted $96K
AnswerID: 375438

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2009 at 18:09

Tuesday, Jul 21, 2009 at 18:09
Hi Terry
Was that way not long ago , but can't get even close anymore, but $96 is normal retail with KDSS (no negoitations).
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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 22:36

Monday, Jul 20, 2009 at 22:36
Hi Robin,

Thats a pretty fair assessment of the 200. The 200 is noticeably wider on overgrown tracks compared to the GU, but is actually only 30mm wider than the 100 series (and 60mm longer). I already have more scratches on my 200 in 12 months than what I did after 5 years in my GU. But what I find much better in the 200 is the turning circle, it makes parking the 200 easier than the GU and also far more maneuverable on tight tracks IMHO. But not sure why you found the visibility worse, I have found it better, particularly the side mirrors and over the bonnet.

When comparing off-road performance, I have found the 200 to notably outperform the GU in stock form (I have KDSS option). While the 200 approach angle is very poor, the rest of the package has as good or better ground clearance. The standard traction control is about 80% as good as front & rear diff locks - it is that good IMHO and is the key reason to the better off-road performance. Wheel articulation is actually better on the 200, never thought I would see the day when an IFS could out-perform a live axle vehicle (in stock form).

While the GU can ultimately have more and higher aftermarket suspension options, the 200 is improved with a roo bar (clearance) and suspension lift (I have a 3" front & 1" rear for a 2" average lift) and 2" is what is arguably the best for a 4WD set up for touring.

You have already experienced the vastly better NVH and ride quality, its in a different class but then again for those $$$ so it should be. Also, having that quantity of power/torque with decent handling makes driving a joy and towing a sheer pleasure.

As for price, there are some much better deals out there. You should be able to achieve a TTD GXL with KDSS for <$80K drive away. I don't know if you lease a vehicle, but when I changed over, the final cost difference in my pocket was ~$30 a week. Something I thought was very much value for money when going from a 3.0TD GU to a TTD 200.

But it doesn't really matter what vehicle you ultimately buy, they all have their advantages and disadvantages and everyones needs are subtly different. It would be a boring place if we all drove the same vehicles.

Cheers

Captain
AnswerID: 375467

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Jul 21, 2009 at 18:07

Tuesday, Jul 21, 2009 at 18:07
Hi Captain

I appreciate your input and guess your still quite pleased with your car.

The visibility was interesting , my Gu seats have been raised 30mm which helps , but I found that the bonnet had two lumps on each side which I felt impeded view. Off course it could also be said that the dip in the centre of the bonnet enhanced forward view.

Some things like the NVH , while clearly better - well petrol 4800 patrols are already much improved over the diesels , and so the extra improvement in the 200 series made little practical difference.
With the windows down I felt the petrol gu was beteewn the two 200 series cars , and all three allowed us to hear wildlife when sneaking thru the bush.

When considering 4wd performance , I include in the car all it can reasonably be and in these cars that includes diff locks , and about same suspension so there is little in it either way.
(I have not tried the crawl control coming in the new 200 diesels)

So while all in all a better car in touring, towing and range these are nice things but not vital as the GU is close enough.

So it becomes a value for money descision.

There is no way we can even get close to $80k on road any more for diesel
& KDSS or $65 for petrol (as opposed to end of finnacial year sales) and I have done a bit of research because IMHO the 200 is a great car for sure.




















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