Buying my first 4wd

Submitted: Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 18:51

ThreadID: 70887 Views:3928 Replies:7 FollowUps:20

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jarz85

Hi again, narrowed my search down to a couple - still going to keep Jackaroos in mind if something pops up in the next 7 weeks (when I sell my car). The 4wd I buy will be mainly used around the suburbs, not CBD, and I plan to go on little trips every 2nd or 3rd weekend plus the occasional 2+ week trip. I know the petrol fuel economy will be alot worse than the diesel but I'll be able to afford to fill it up whenever needed. Both Patrols have sub tanks.

Basically the first 4wd I looked at, 1998 GU Patrol, 2.8 Turbo Diesel, Manual, pushing 200,000kms. Now, I know that at around the 200,000km mark they can blow the head IF they havent been looked after, this Patrol was one owner from new who trader the car in for a BMW... it doesnt have a bullbar which is a slight bonus as I dont mind buying one, it is in immaculate condition inside and out, not a mark anywhere. It has full service history, has had the cam done and I really feel this is a good car, if the head blows I'll just buy a new one. This one the dealer price is $15,500 or $17000 with 3 month warranty. Pics of this car http://www.flickr.com/photos/40432818@N05/

2nd car is also a 1998 GU Patrol, but a 4.5L petrol, manual, 160,000kms. Not sure what warranty would come with this but it is not as good condition as the first one, eg back door has been pushed slightly and doesnt open, little rust spots around engine etc and it has been in the dealers yard for at least 3 months, I remember seeing it a while ago. The price on this is $17,999 but they said I could probably trade my Commodore in for it, which means I should be able to lower the price to $15000? Link: Http://www.newspot.com.au its the only patrol they have so not hard to find, its white.

Now, the 2.8 is less powerful than the 4.5 obviously, but which is better all round?

Toyota Landcrusiers 80 Series......

Have very quickly looked at 2 of these one is an automatic 1994 model, 245000kms, ok-to-good condition, had some work to be done in the yard before being sold... I took it for a drive around the block and it goes well, no smoke etc (petrol wouldnt usually have smoke anyway?) However it is a bit shuddery when accelerating on and off and it pulls a bit at steady acceleration (the dealer said all 80 series automatics would do that) The price was $14999 but said they could do $13500 all up, if I waved the cash Id push it under $13k... however I just didnt like the automatic, I really want a manual 4wd for some reason.

The other one was just traded at the dealer and wont be ready to view for at least 2 weeks, its a 1992 factory turbo diesel, manual, GXL and he said it is a '1HZ?' which is good. The dealer knows the guy who traded it in and said its a very good car and once cleaned up I will check it out, only thing is its 360,000kms and he said the price will be around $15000.

So thats where I stand at the moment, the Patrol and the LC are the 2 cars Im interested in buying but if a sweet deal pops up in the next couple months I might take it. Esp on a Jackaroo. Either way I want a manual. So any advice you can

Sorry if my posts are starting to get annoying and if you guys wish I will not ask any more questions - only downer is I have noone to talk to about this as my father died 3 years ago and none of my mates know anything about cars other than WRX's. So far all the feedback Ive received has been a great help.

Thanks, Rick

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Reply By: The Lobster - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 19:42

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 19:42

I know nothing about patrols so I'll leave that to the others on here. But as far as the cruisers go, I would try to find some more to drive. The 4.5 petrol is a good engine but, like you, I'd prefer a manual. There are heaps of 4.5s around at good prices, try and find a decent manual before ruling it out.

The diesel is a bit concerning. The 1HZ engine is a naturally aspirated (ie. no turbo) engine ONLY. It CANNOT be "factory turbo diesel" and a 1HZ, there is no such thing. Assuming it is a 1HZ, the turbo will be aftermarket which definitely can be an issue. 1HZs were not designed to run with turbos and adding one can often drastically shorten the life of the engine, which would otherwise regularly got to 500k km +. $15k is way overpriced for this car. With that many kms on it and a potentially dicey turbo I wouldn't pay any more than $10k for it. But if I were you I'd give it a miss and look for another, less tweaked, diesel. The 1HZ is a good reliable engine when in stock form (probably one of the most reliable ever), so don't rule it out either, just find a decent one.

On the other hand, if it is actually a 'factory' turbo diesel, the engine code would be 1HD-T (look on the compliance plate on the firewall under the bonnet to confirm) and the dealer doesn't know his 80 series engines. If it is a 1HD-T, then $15k is probably a decent asking price as this was the pick of the three engines available.

Hope that helps.

matt

AnswerID: 375713

Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 08:57

Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 08:57

Agree with Matt on the petrol 80 series. For that kind of money you should be getting one in very good nick and expecting quite a few 'extras'. Keep looking for them though. They are fuel guzzlers, but this also means that you can get some really good ones for a song if you look around.

Matt.

FollowupID: 643112

Reply By: Member - Axle - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 19:45

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 19:45

G/day Rick, IMHO everything you have looked at is way to dear!, You will struggle to to get value buying like that. Some warrantys aren't worth the paper their written on, so be carefull. Keep looking at the private sector something will turn up.

Cheers Axle.

AnswerID: 375715

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 19:48

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 19:48

It seems 4wds in SA are dearer than the other states, which is annoying. Maybe in the next school holidays, when I get time of work, I would have sold my Commodore and have the cash ready to buy. Then I'll head interstate and take ti from there?

FollowupID: 643039

Follow Up By: Madfisher - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:13

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:13

Yes Rick you need to look at private sales to get a bargain. The odd private seller is dodgy but most are pretty honest. For valuations go to www car sales then click on research, gives you trade in prices and private sale4s prices. If I am selling a vahicle I try and spilt the diff between trade in price and dealer retail. Then the buyer and seller get value. We got close to retail for our old Paj because it had 98000 and where getting heaps of calls every day.
I was just looking at car sales and their is a superb Jack in vic for $10500. !50000 just had the major service. Private seller. Interesting their is a 94 Jack with 420000ks for sale with the original motor.
Keep learning, just remember when turbo diesels need repairing(4 cylinder ) they cost big time.
Cheers Pete

FollowupID: 643042

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:19

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:19

Yea the only thing I look at though, is with a dealer you can have a proper test drive, even take the car home overnight, whereas with private you can only go around the block? Having not bought a car privately before I have no idea haha

FollowupID: 643044

Follow Up By: Madfisher - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:59

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:59

Do not know where you got that idea Rick, I often envite the owner to come with me if I do not know the area. I also check out the house, garden , etc to suss out what sort of people they are. Eg nice neat house then the car will usually be looked after as well. Be carefull with lady owners, unless they have a full logbook service history, they do not like wasting money on services normally.
The last twelve cars we have brought privately.
You do need to do a revs check and mechanical checks of course. Just remember dealers are experts at extracting money from your wallet, private sellers are mostly not.
When we buy a car I check the car out , while I always let Sally do the price haggling. She is much better at this then me. When we brought the Nullarbor she asked the poor seller 10 times what his best prices was again( I had my head under the car dying of embarrassment). In the end she wore him down.
If you sell privately and but private that should be $4000 to $5000 in your pocket, it is not rocket science. Also check out the 4bys in the trader on this site.
Cheers Pete

FollowupID: 643076

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:05

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:05

Yea why buy from a dealer when you dont get a warranty!? Ill be honest with you, took a 3.5 2000 Jackaroo SE on a test drive the other day, apart from the petrol light flashing (I hate test drives from dealers when there is like 1 drip of petrol in the tank). And it was a really nice car, 220,000kms, had new offroady type tyres on it. It was a really nice car, had good features. The dealer told me to stay away from the diesels, is this true? I still wont rule out buying a Jackaroo but the 80 series is growing on me

FollowupID: 643078

Follow Up By: Madfisher - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 13:11

Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 13:11

Yes he told you the truth, the post 98 gave a lot of trouble although the earlier 3.1 was very reliable.
Plenty of Jacks arround with low ks for less then $14000.
Cheers Pete

FollowupID: 643151

Reply By:- Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:16

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:16

Matey,

$18k for a 98 GU petrol patrol is too much, I doubt they would have paid more than $10k for it

Cheers
Ev

AnswerID: 375722

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:19

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:19

So what do you reckon I could get it for? Theyve had it in the dealer for at least 3 months.... whats the life on a 4.5L petrol?

FollowupID: 643043

Follow Up By:- Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:50

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:50

I traded a 2000 GU Petrol Patrol with 85000km in immaculate condition for $12k back in March, and I had to push to get that much. And it had new tyres!!!

They are a good truck, honest and reliable. You don't read too much on the forums of things going wrong with them. Their only problem is they are thirsty but if you can live with that they are a good truck.

Offer them $14k, set an upper limit of say 14500 and be prepared to walk away, they will probably call you a week later wanting to talk, especially if they've had it for a few months. Tell them to get their red book out, you kne one they use when they are giving you a S%^T price on your trade, then watch them squirm.

Good luck, can't go wrong with a Patrol

FollowupID: 643048

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:58

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:58

Haha awesome, once I sell my car and have the cash in hand ready to buy, I won't get pushed around, I'll tell the guy at the dealer "Hey mate I know youve had the car here for 5 months (will be by the time I'm ready to buy,) Ill give you $13500 :P If he says $15000 Ill say $14000, and to be honest I'd be happy to walk away :) After all, there is more for sale than people who want them :)

FollowupID: 643053

Reply By: Hairs & Fysh (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:23

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:23

Hi Rick,
Rule NO 1 is don't believe car salesman.
Now there might be a few that lurk here and if that upsets them so be it.
They are trying to sell you somebody's problem, Not in all cases, just beware.
When it comes to an 80 series, try and get one that is a 1HDT, make sure it's had it's bearings done & it has log books. you may even pay a bit more for one with under 300k, I personally wouldn't get an auto in an 80 series. Anyway if your serious about an 80 series become a member of Lcool or Ofroad80's these guys are a wealth of info.
About your other 4by's I would know much about them.
It's not much but I hope it helps.

AnswerID: 375724

Follow Up By: The Lobster - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:56

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:56

Yeah, I'll second LCOOL. If you want to learn about cruisers, everything you will ever need to know is on the LCOOL forums.

matt

FollowupID: 643052

Reply By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:07

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:07

Yea, they are both awesome sites - now that I've looked at them I'm borderline forgetting about the Patrol and just going to go for an 80 series haha. Only thing is my girlfriend is like 'why the hell would you want to buy a 15 year old car with over 300,000kms!?!?!?!' Gonna research ALOT about these over the next few weeks :)

AnswerID: 375737

Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:22

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:22

My old girl is a 91 model with just 300000k's on her. I'm planing to have her another ten years or so.
As you said, 'Gonna research ALOT about these over the next few weeks :)'
Look, watch and ask questions.

:)
Read this thread looking for 80 series advice
And you'll find plenty more on here as well.

Good stuff, and Good luck with your search.

FollowupID: 643061

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:30

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:30

Geeeez that rust thingo looks nasty! I drive a taxi and that is a 2005 VZ Commodore, just ticked 450,000kms,its an ex-police car and has been thrashed its whole life hehe, still goes ok but running terrible on gas at the moment.

When you look at that compared to say something that is 15 years old and around 250,000kms - thats less than 20,000kms a year which isnt too much. Some old Hyundai Excels etc are still going.

I reckon diesel is the best way to go with getting an 80 series?

FollowupID: 643062

Follow Up By: The Lobster - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:51

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:51

All three 80 series engines have their pros and cons. The 4.5 petrol is nice and powerful, pretty reliable but it's pretty thirsty. The 4.2 naturally aspirated diesel is super reliable, good on fuel but doesn't go particularly quick. The 4.2 factory turbo diesel is probably the best of both worlds, pretty good power and torque, great on fuel and pretty reliable, but you will pay considerably more for a factory TD than the other engines.

I would avoid the early (90-91) petrol and diesel engines as they weren't great. The ones you want are the 1FZ-FE (4.5 petrol), 1HZ (4.2 NA diesel) or 1HD-T (4.2 TD).

Tell your missus that these things usually do at least 500000kms and hold their value pretty well compared to the other brands.

matt

FollowupID: 643071

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:57

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:57

Thanks Matt, looking on carsales as we speak and there are lots of 80 series. Do you have any idea what the repair costs are? Eg, if I buy one whats the worst that can go wrong and what it costs to fix it etc, what about the stuff that needs to be changed regularly like clutch,timing belt etc?

FollowupID: 643073

Follow Up By: The Lobster - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:15

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:15

General stuff like clutches etc cost about the same no matter what type of 4by you get. Same with timing belts. Diesel engines do tend to have more expensive/complex components than petrols. If you have fuel pump problems, a fuel pump rebuild is quite expensive, usually at least $1500. The tip is, don't run your fuel tank empty to avoid pump damage.

If you blow up a diesel engine, they are usually more expensive to rebuild than equivalent petrols. But the trade off is that diesels are usually considerably more fuel efficient, especially when towing or 4x4ing. It is also generally believed that diesel engines outlast their petrol counterparts on average, although some petrol heads debate this.

Gearbox rebuilds can also be expensive (over $1000), so do some reading on LCOOL about 80 series gear boxes so you know what to look/feel for when you drive some. Also be aware that if an 80 series gear box feels 'notchy' or certain gears are difficult to select, especially when cold, it isn't necessary a major problem and is often simply due to the wrong lubricant in the gear box. This is a very common situation.

When I bought my 80, selecting 1st when stopped at the lights etc was a headache. I drained the gearbox oil and put Castrol VMX-M in and it was like new.

There are heaps of non-genuine parts available for 80s so cost isn't really any different to any other brand. Genuine parts can be expensive, but I don't think that's limited to Toyota either.

I could ramble on forever, but there aren't really any common major problems with 80s, apart from the earlier engines, which you should avoid, as I said.

And remember, with diesels especially, a good service record is worth gold.

matt

FollowupID: 643080

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:19

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:19

Ok, I'm started to get the hang of this now. I registered for LCOOL but have to wait for someone to view my application?

Anything that costs <$1500 to fix shouldnt be a problem, hopefully I wont have to thought :) I just dont want to buy something and then have to spent $5000+ getting it repaired etc.

FollowupID: 643081

Follow Up By: The Lobster - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:27

Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:27

A diesel engine rebuild could cost $5k, so that's why it's important to make sure you get a good one. If you find one you like, get it looked at by a diesel mechanic, or at least a mechanic with decent 4x4 and diesel experience, before you buy it. If the seller won't let you take to a mech before buying, walk away, they are obviously trying to hide something.

Yes, one of the LCOOL moderators has to manually activate your account. It'll probably happen tomorrow.

Good luck, and keep asking questions.

matt

FollowupID: 643083

Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 08:48

Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 08:48

G'day Rick,

I have had quite a few of the vehicles you are looking at. Sold our 2001 Jackaroo petrol about 6 months back to a friend for well under $10K which should be your buying price for this sort of car. Ours was spotless with low k's as well.

My 1HZ l/cruiser was a 1999 model so the 100 series shape not the 80 but the motor is the same. Good solid and honest motor, my g/box kept crapping itself which is why I ended up with the GU patrol. I can't tell you the price to look at for these but if you find a good unit it will be a comfortable, capable and generally reliable rig.

The Patrol, a mate has a high k 2.8 GU (1998) and couldn't get an offer at $14K about 12 months back, in hindsight he might have been better getting what he could. Since then he has had the head go and now the gearbox too, all big ticket items.....oh what a feeling!! The 4.5 Petrol GU's are reported to be good for very big k's and you can find them through the auctions going for as little as $9K so keep your eyes on something like this. I recently got offered $14K on one of my 2001 4.2T/D GU's by a dealer so if other people are getting offered similar trade in price you may be able to find one of these through a private seller for under $20K and they would also be good buying in my opinion. Incidentally I told the dealer ring me when he got closer to $26K and not to waste my time before that. (Mine had/has plenty of offroad fruit on it to make it a tad more expensive over a standard rig, if there is such a thing when you talk about 4.2 Patrols)

The Jackaroo 3500 petrol is one of the better value for money 4b"s going. They seem to be OK in all areas but not excellent in any. You will never get your money back on them but at thier price you don't shell out as much on them either compared to the bigger 4b's.

Keep looking Rick, I am sure the secret to picking a good unit is looking at heaps of ordinary ones. This way, the good one will stand head and shoulders above the rest and you will pick it if you have looked at enough "others".

Happy hunting,
Trevor.

AnswerID: 375791

Follow Up By: The Lobster - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 21:03

Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 21:03

One of the only things I do know about patrols is that the 3.0 litre turbo diesels should be avoided like the plague, especially the early ones but I wouldn't touch any of them personally. They have a big tendency to go bang and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are going pretty cheap because of this.

matt

FollowupID: 643235

Reply By: Louie the fly (SA) - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 13:50

Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 13:50

Jarz, I'm assuming you are in SA based on one of your comments posted. If thats the case, that 2.8 Patrol must come with a statutory 3 month warranty anyway as it's under 200000 km, over $6k 7 less than 15 yrs old (unless there is some other condition on the car).

Have a look here - warranty in SA

I'd be wary of someone who's offering you something for $1700 that you are entitled to get under the Second-hand Vehicle Dealers Act.

Agree with others, prices seem a bit high. I know someone in Murray Bridge that has a good TD 80 series with all the fruit for around those prices.

Louie

AnswerID: 375824

Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh (NSW) - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 19:35

Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 19:35

Unfortunately Louie in New South, Dealer warranty does not cover the drive train in a second hand 4by. I learnt this the hard way. 6 weeks after purchase, my front left hand wheel bearing collapsed. Luckily we weren't belting down the H'way when it went. The Pink Slip that came with the vehicle from his own mechanic failed it for a loose left hand front wheel bearing.
The only thing holding the wheel on was the brake caliper.
$600 later I find out that in NSW the Drive train is not cover under the 3 month warranty. Dept of Fair Trading and the MVRA didn't want any thing to do with it
The only satisfaction I got was, walking back into the dealer and telling him that I would never buy another Vehicle off him and never recommend any one to him. The other joy was, ripping off his personalized plastic Number Plate surrounds in front of him.
Rant over, ;)

Anyway Jarz, I agree with Louie 'be wary of someone who's offering you something for $1700 that you are entitled to get under the Second-hand Vehicle Dealers Act'
There are sharks out there.

FollowupID: 643201

Back Moderator

Buying my first 4wd

jarz85

Reply By: The Lobster - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 19:42

Follow Up By: Member - Matt M (ACT) - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 08:57

Reply By: Member - Axle - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 19:45

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 19:48

Follow Up By: Madfisher - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:13

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:19

Follow Up By: Madfisher - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:59

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:05

Follow Up By: Madfisher - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 13:11

Reply By:- Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:16

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:19

Follow Up By:- Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:50

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:58

Reply By: Hairs & Fysh (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:23

Follow Up By: The Lobster - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 20:56

Reply By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:07

Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:22

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:30

Follow Up By: The Lobster - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:51

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 21:57

Follow Up By: The Lobster - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:15

Follow Up By: jarz85 - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:19

Follow Up By: The Lobster - Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 at 22:27

Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 08:48

Follow Up By: The Lobster - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 21:03

Reply By: Louie the fly (SA) - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 13:50

Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh (NSW) - Thursday, Jul 23, 2009 at 19:35

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