WAAS, Is there such a thing in OZ?
Submitted: Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 02:22
ThreadID:
71516
Views:
5527
Replies:
10
FollowUps:
8
This Thread has been Archived
Buggerlux
Is there any form of WAAS in AU? Is it a pointless feature in a GPS in Australia?
Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 02:49
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 02:49
NO
READ This
.
AnswerID:
379059
Follow Up By: On Patrol & TONI - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 12:12
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 12:12
Doug
that link explains WAAS
well, but it still only refers to USA application of it, the question still remains, what relevance is WAAS in Australia without the required ground stations?
My feeling is, how accurate do we need to be?
currently they are accurate to 10-20 mtrs, that will find me the road I need quite
well I'm sure, and so far it has. Any more accuracy is possibly for surveyors and the like & they do have more accurate equipment anyway.
JMHO mate, cheers Colin.
FollowupID:
646492
Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 12:28
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 12:28
Colin
Did you read it properly,
Read this section "Who benefits from WAAS?"
.
FollowupID:
646493
Follow Up By: On Patrol & TONI - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 15:59
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 15:59
Hi Doug, I am missing something here!!!!!! LOL
The only thing I saw in that article that might benefit us in Australia, some time in the future was the line:
["Eventually, GPS users around the world will have access to precise position data using these and other compatible systems"].
That is a big "maybe" for us poor relatives here in Australia Doug, and when and if it happens you can bet your left testicle someone will make sure we have to pay dearly for the "service". Call me cynical Doug, but that's a result of years of experience with the powers to be in Australia mate.
Give us a sneak preview of tomorrows story !!!!!!!!!! LOL
Colin.
FollowupID:
646507
Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 17:00
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 17:00
Colin
YES
Currently, WAAS satellite coverage is only available in North America. There are no ground reference stations in South America, so even though GPS users there can receive WAAS, the signal has not been corrected and thus would not improve the accuracy of their unit. For some users in the U.S., the position of the satellites over the equator makes it difficult to receive the signals when trees or mountains obstruct the view of the horizon.
.
FollowupID:
646511
Reply By: viz - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 08:08
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 08:08
As you say it is a pointless feature here in Oz as it is not available in this part of the world. The accuracy since selective availability was turned off is more than enough for every day ground or marine navigation - WAAS was introduced in the US to provide navigation accuracy for aircraft conducting GPS precision approaches - again something that we do not have here. Non-precision approaches (NPA) were developed in Oz instead, and for general use here it is assumed by the minor gods that run aviation safety to be adequately safe - though I wonder if the families of the victims in the
Lockhart River crash would think so...
From memory there also have been trials done with ground based stations to augment the accuracy of GPS receivers for precision approaches - and with amazing results - precisions somewhere in the region of centimeters rather than meters.
Interesting subject this - I have used GPS units for NPAs - they are complex approaches when compared to using the older generations of nav gear - they require enhanced concentration and a very very thorough and intuitive knowledge of the equipment used and of the approach.
viz
AnswerID:
379068
Follow Up By: howie - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 12:12
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 12:12
wasn't the main factor in that crash, pilot error?
for a start, the co-pilot was not even endorsed for RNAV GNSS approaches (which is a requirement i think)
FollowupID:
646491
Follow Up By: viz - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 14:44
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 14:44
Yes, for sure it was pilot error. For a two pilot op, I would think that the second pilot would need a RNAV endorsement. If a single pilot op, then not. Metros can be flown single pilot, though with pax I am not sure if allowed for RPT ops of that nature.
The
Lockhart River crash underlines a fear that I have always had with that type of approach, including DME/GPS Arrival. It's a "dive and drive" approach and if the steps are clipped or taken too early
the pilot is going to drive into cumulogranitus, as what happened.
And GPS receivers can go real weird at times and tell you lies... Been there, done that. Much prefer NDB/VOR with GPS backup.
Anyway, getting off topic. I can natter all day on this!
viz
FollowupID:
646503
Reply By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 09:44
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 09:44
No and Yes.
The best accuracy you can get from a standard portable or vehicle GPS is about 15m.
AnswerID:
379079
Reply By: gbc - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:29
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:29
When I worked for AMSA I helped with the rollout of the differential GPS system around oz. Differential is basically waas done differently. It is pretty much seamless up the eastern seaboard, the cape,
weipa and then around the major shipping ports of the West and South.
It is free and available to anyone who wishes to purchase a differential receiver. Not much good in the Simpson, but excellent if you fish the eastern seaboard as I do. These days the fix won't be amazingly better than raw GPS due to SA being switched off, but it is and will increasingly be more reliable than the satellites.
AnswerID:
379083
Follow Up By: viz - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 14:30
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 14:30
Now that is interesting - i thought that the limitations of DGPS precluded its rollout - obviously those limitations were overcome...
viz
FollowupID:
646500
Reply By: howie - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:56
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:56
WAAS should be turned off/disabled in Oz.
apparently it is possible to get some signals, but they are not from or for Oz, and could/will cause confusion.
AnswerID:
379087
Follow Up By: viz - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 14:28
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 14:28
I think the Pacific WAAS geosynch satellites were turned off in 2007 - they are only operating over North America (maybe Hawaii??)
viz
FollowupID:
646499
Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 14:38
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 14:38
For those of you who fish Morton Bay there is a DGPS unit on
Bribie Island at Woorim.
However the unit to use with the Lowrance Globalmap3000 I had was $1200 if you could buy one here.
I got one from Ebay for $200 and it did make a difference and was accurate to the length of my pontoon at home. (8M)
AnswerID:
379116
Reply By: gbc - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 15:47
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 15:47
GrahamH - the AMSA one for Brissy is down the back of the Telstra facility at Ningi. It broadcasts up to around Hervey Bay or thereabouts, when the one at
Gladstone (Benaraby) starts to become stronger. Don't know who would own the one at woorim?
AnswerID:
379119
Reply By: Buggerlux - Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 16:06
Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 at 16:06
Thank you all for your information
Greatly appreciated
I have a feeling it may be similar to the radio
beacon triangulation that occurred in the US prior to the removal of position deviation so people didn't put missiles through windows etc. [TIC]
Cheers
AnswerID:
379120
Reply By: Member - Terry W (ACT) - Sunday, Aug 16, 2009 at 18:27
Sunday, Aug 16, 2009 at 18:27
As has been stated, we do not have WAAS in Australia. However, Australia has committed to providing the aviation industry with approaches with vertical guidance (APV) using GNSS (eg GPS) by 2016. There are essentially two types of APV using satellites. The first, on which work has already started, is called Baro-VNAV which realistically is only going to be available to newish high value aircraft, and is of no interest to this discussion. The other system is called SBAS, and is of great interest to those who operate in regional areas with aircraft unlikely to ever have Baro-VNAV certification. WAAS is the US SBAS system. There are others, including a Japanese system which has a footprint which covers Australia. The question of whether or not to set up an SBAS system for Australia is currently under consideration, and will probably go ahead, but with all the work to be done, don't expect to see it for a number of years yet.
AnswerID:
379210
Reply By: Buggerlux - Sunday, Aug 16, 2009 at 19:49
Sunday, Aug 16, 2009 at 19:49
Cheers for that Terry.
It will be interesting to see if the system you discuss will be aligned with WAAS or compatible to WAAS fitted devices to improve navigation in this country especially regional areas and marine applications.
So purchasing a WAAS based device is a pointless exercise now in Australia. Some companies have cheaper devices without the WAAS in their range.
AnswerID:
379224