Cheating?

Submitted: Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 02:32
ThreadID: 71703 Views:4679 Replies:15 FollowUps:1
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For those watching our ongoing Dual spare wheel carrier build project...

Here's the thing.

I struck a snag that's held us up a day or so.

Bending the 50mm pipe to make the RH swing arm as a mirror of the left hand one.

Bought the 50 mm pipe and tried to bend it in one of those 12 tonne jack benders with the rollers and adjustable pins. Bent it a bit and tested it against the LH carrier pipe and it needed more - so put it back in the bender and gave it a bit more - basically two radius bends get me 90 degrees, so only a total 45 degree bend each time in each bend.

No idea why - but the pipe kinked at the apex of the inside bend?

Brother in law, knows a guy bends pipe all day making custom exhausts on some kinda mandrel bender, and convinced me to take the RH carrier arm and pipes to him to ask him to bend them for me.

Some how - it feels like "cheating" on a project where I wanted to do it all ourselves - but the materials too expensive to screw it up and waste, so that aspect (4 bends) has been "subbed out" as f this morning.

Here's hoping it turns out OK.

Next question.

I have sheet steel bout 2 mm thick, ordered originally as a replacement bottom sheet in a rubbish trailer that never got done (yet). I need to make a recovery gear "box" that sits inside the rear chassis rails between the new bumper and long ranger tank underneath, for snig chain and rated shackles, snatch blocks and tree protectors and so on.

I have no way to bend flat sheet on straight seams to fold up a box to fit.

I am thinking about taking it to a sheet metal worker and give him the dimensions and ask him to fold it all up with a strong lip etc and just let us take it home and weld / grind, paint and install it.

Is that also cheating - subbing out another part of the job to another tradesman?

I'd like to do it all ourselves BUT the time is dragging on and we need to get this thing finished (Coz the young fellas driving My F truck while we have his 80 series stripped of its back bumper, hence not roadworthy, and I want my truck back)!.

I could probably cut all the individual pieces with the 4 inch grinder and weld them back together to make the box - but it will never be as strong and neat as one folded by a sheet metal guy.

So..

OK to sub out minor tasks on "a project" to the experts - or not?.

If we stick at it, part time, I estimate another month or two the way we are going and wasted $ and materials as we learn what we can't do ourselves.

The downside - if we don't do it ourselves we will never learn!

Thoughts?

Cheers
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Reply By: Neil & Pauline - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 03:15

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 03:15
I expect the pipe did not sit back in the die properly causing the kink.
Sometimes "cheating" is cheaper and better when you don't have the right equipment.

Neil
AnswerID: 379989

Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 03:57

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 03:57
Why bother with all the fancy pipe and bends, this is how K&N do it and it's strong,


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AnswerID: 379990

Reply By: Member - Phil B (WA) - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 04:44

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 04:44
Hi Flywest,

I have enjoyed the build up and your updates.

Getting work done outside - I wouldn't call it cheating after all you are designing the parts you want and then welding and/or fitting them.

cheers
Phil
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AnswerID: 379992

Reply By: On Patrol & TONI - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 06:06

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 06:06
Even experts sub out some tasks. Nearly all car makers sub out electricals, in fact many components, so no shame in that if you want to get it right.
Colin
AnswerID: 379993

Reply By: Peterbilt - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 07:28

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 07:28
Flywest,
I've thoroughly enjoyed following your progress as it's a project I'd also like to tackle at some point. Using someone else's equipment and expertise to fabricate components is not cheating and what you'll learn from them doing it, you can then apply yourself in future projects. As others have posted, it's common practice to sub out components for which you don't have the equipment or expertise. The overall design and construction remains totally yours.

I've recently discovered that my next door neighbour has a panbrake for bending sheet metal so I'm keen now to make new cargo drawers from gal sheet to replace my current plywood drawers. While I'm certainly no expert, your 2mm sheet steel will need a more substantial panbrake to bend it than most home workshop equipment and you'll have a well-constructed box as a result.

Peter
AnswerID: 379995

Reply By: Mandrake - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 07:52

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 07:52
Flywest - re the pipe bending thing --

I seem to remember an old plumber friend of mine used to fill his copper pipes with sand tight packed and then bend slowly -- apparently the sand helped stop kinking ? Would that work for steel ?

Cheers

Mandrake .
AnswerID: 379998

Reply By: Stu & "Bob" - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 08:13

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 08:13
Flywest,
If you were to cut a groove in the 2mm sheet with an angle grinder where you wanted to bend it, it would bend a lot easier. The groove doesn't have to be deep, just enough so you can bend it.


HTH
AnswerID: 380000

Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Thoughtfully- Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 08:27

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 08:27
Like your typing you are overthinking the whole thing. Just sub it out
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Reply By: landymick - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 10:40

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 10:40
Gday Flywest
I think your pipe bending problem is caused by pipe made from recycled car bodys. I had this problem with new cheap pipe. I used an older piece in the same bender and bent 90 degrees no problem
Good luck Mick
AnswerID: 380020

Reply By: Member - Johny boy (NSW) - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 16:53

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 16:53
Hey flywest,
Can we see a heap of pics progress and complete ???



PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LOL!
AnswerID: 380053

Reply By: RV Powerstream P/L - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 17:07

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 17:07
Flywest
Cheating NO!!!
Value Adding Yes !!!

As long as the major portion of the job is home made the sub contracting does not detract from the intent to be proud of building something yourself.
Ian
AnswerID: 380054

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 17:11

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 17:11
BTW if you have some angle laying around big enough to suit the box size.

Tack one lenght to a bench put a 3mm spacer either end score your 2MM plate with a cutting disc slide it through the two angles and fold it yourself.

Ian
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Reply By: Member - Stuart P (WA) - Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 23:12

Saturday, Aug 22, 2009 at 23:12
i work in landsdale on emergancy vehicles have all the bedimg gear you need .email me for help if needed
AnswerID: 380091

Reply By: Flywest - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 00:14

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 00:14
Thank you one and all, some great tips there!

Yes there will be more pics and details, as we finish it up.

I keep thinking of more "things" we can do - like incorporate the two air brakes vacuum connectors into the bar - instead of hanging down beneath the tow bar where they are likely to get hung up on departure angle obstacles.

The Trailer lights plug likewise could go into the bar - as could the LPG filler.

I guess this keeps turning into bigger than Ben Hur, when in reality it needs to get finished!

Paint is a bit contentious - options from Black Hammer-tex to Burgundy color coded to the vehicle, to chroming everything.

We will see I guess.

Thanks for the tips on folding - we could actually do that, and not a method I've have dreampt up.

Likewise with the bending pipe offer - might yet have to take you up on it auto sparky depending how our exhaust guy goes with this heavier walled pipe.

At the moment - just a LOT of grinding full welds to do.

Cheers.
AnswerID: 380098

Reply By: Member - Alex B - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 08:31

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 08:31
G'day Flywest,
Ive had a ball reading about your project - love it.
Subing out a couple of the bits isn't cheating. It might make you feel better if you give the fellas a tip or two (even if they don't need it ) when you drop the materials off on how they should do it! :-)

Cheers
Alex B
AnswerID: 380102

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:12

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:12
You should be ashamed of yourself???? CHEAT!!!! LOL

Use the right tools for the job......nothing wrong with getting someone with a folder bend it up if you dont have one....its called doing it properly. The amount of distortion you will cause by welding your box together will just make hard work of it.
AnswerID: 380119

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