Nissan too much oil pressure GU 4.2 turbo 1999 model @ 200klm

Submitted: Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:37
ThreadID: 71727 Views:10216 Replies:5 FollowUps:15
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Hi my mate has a Nissan Patrol it is running at idle 85psi @ 1500rpm 90psi @ 2500rpm 100psi.

This is much higher than the work shop manaul idle should be 7psi @ 2800rpm 57 to 65psi.

Anyone else had this problem.

Scoof. :-)
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Reply By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 12:13

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 12:13
Is that hot , or cold pressure..

Mine will run to 80psi when cold, but soon drops when the oil warms up.. Hardly moves the needle on the gauge at idle w/- a hot engine..

If it's making those sort of pressures with hot oil, I'd say you have a sticking relief valve..


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Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 12:42

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 12:42
PS Could be a sludged-up engine too (causing the relief valve to stick!)

What oil has he been using? regular (on schedule) oil changes?

MOST IMPORTANT of all.. Has the oil been dropped while at full operating temp, and immediately after engine shut-down??

If the oil is regularly changed at other than full operating temperature, this will significantly increase the likelihood of sludge build-up, which in turn can lead to other problems (such as you have described)....



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Follow Up By: Member - Scoof (SA) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 14:53

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 14:53
I will find out more info , the oil gauge is like a taco it moves up and down with the rev's more than normal.
It sounds like a sticky oil pressure relief valve to me as well.

I don't know the oil type as yet but I do know it has been well maintaned and always serviced on time.
Also has been owned from new by him.

This time it was serviced the Garage did fit after market oil filters but the gauge was starting to show higher pressure before last service anyway.

The oil pressure gauge has been checked and another gauge was put in just to check and it did much the same things.

I will get more info if it helps.
Cheers Scoof . :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Scoof (SA) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 15:03

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 15:03
I should of also said the gauge moves up and down the same hot.
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Reply By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 15:09

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 15:09
Yep, sounds like pressure relief valve sticking to me too.
I would use CEM flushing concentrate to give the inside a good cleanup after servicing the valve. If it has had oil changes with other than hot oil then I agree it could have sludge build up but the CEM will fix that.
No connection just a very happy user.
Ian
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Follow Up By: Member - Scoof (SA) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 17:44

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 17:44
Thanks for all the reply's.

Do you know how easy the job would be to service the pressure relief valve ?

Cheers Scoof . :-)
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Reply By: Dave(NSW) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 18:39

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 18:39
If it's a 3 Lt I wouldn't drive it till it gets fixed
GU RULES!!

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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 18:40

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 18:40
Ha just read the heading.
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 20:00

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 20:00
It maybe a throw away sealed unit but if it is serviceable it should be fairly easy for a competant mechanic. Maybe try the CEM first but I am loath to run an engine with oil pressure out of spec.
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Reply By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 21:51

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 21:51
Scoof,
The TD42 actually has 2x oil pressure relief valves, + an oil pressure regulator valve..
The problem could be related to any one (or all) of these:(

The oil pump relief valve is located at the rear of the block on the LH (passenger) side, under the turbo.. should be fairly easy to access this from under the vehicle, for removal/dismantling & cleaning..

The oil cooler (that's the alloy housing on RH side of block, to which the filters are attached) also has a pressure relief valve (top), and a regulator valve, which would be accessed from underneath if doing this in situ..
Removal of the oil cooler housing would also necessitate draining of the coolant...

I've not (yet) had to touch mine, so can't comment on ease of serviceing, but doesn't look like it would be too difficult to anyone who is 'handy with a spanner', though I'd strongly recommend having a w'shop manual handy..

I'm going to (respectfully) disagree with Ian on the need for a 'flushing concentrate' ... I know there are a few here who swear by the stuff, but...

IMHO (based on my experience), the very best errm, 'flushing oil' for any engine, is the correct spec oil for that engine, with the proviso that it (the oil) MUST be dropped while HOT, and immediately (within seconds, not minutes) after engine shutdown.. This ensures that all contaminants will be thoroughly mixed with the oil, and will be drained with the oil, instead of settling to the bottom of the sump pan only to re-contaminate the new oil...

In 40-odd years of serviceing all of my own (and a few other people's) vehicles, I have never seen the need to use any kind of a 'flushing concentrate', and I have never ever had a problem with sludge in any of 'em...

Regards, Ed C










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Follow Up By: Member - Scoof (SA) - Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 23:35

Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 at 23:35
Hi Ed,

I just got back from my friends house, he has already gone to the expense of the flushing product with No change , didn't work nothing has changed.

We had a look in a manual and removing the oil pump looks time consuming as it says the fuel pump must be removed first.

So to find out he has other options with a second relief valve , we can only hope it's the easier option may be the go.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers Scoof . :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Monday, Aug 24, 2009 at 00:03

Monday, Aug 24, 2009 at 00:03
G'day Scoof,

Which manual are you looking at?

I have the Gregory's one (No 519), and on p115 it has a pretty good exploded view of the pump relief valve.. This is the one which is on the side of the block under the turbo (connected to the pressure gallery I presume, w/- by-pass into the return gallery)...
No need to go anywhere near the pump to access this fella, and this is where I'd be starting..

I'd be looking at the one(s) in the cooler housing as well, regardless (details on these over the page)...

Let us know how ya get on;-)

Regards :)



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Follow Up By: Member - Scoof (SA) - Monday, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:27

Monday, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:27
No prob's Ed

Thanks Scoof . :-)
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Reply By: Flywest - Monday, Aug 24, 2009 at 02:15

Monday, Aug 24, 2009 at 02:15
In order for the pressure to go up - something has to be blocked within the oil system, would be the rational assumption.

Normally you'd look where the last hands touched it - i.e. maybe the last oil change?

Oil filters normally have a bypass valve, that - in the case the filter becomes blocked - it opens to allow the oil to bypass the filter, so that the engine is not damaged.

That bypass spring pressure setting has to be higher than the normal high oil pressure of the engine when running at WOT - which from your specifications was 65 psi?.

So - if the engines running at 85 psi - it seems as tho the oil filter is blocked (or it is not the right filter and the oil gallery doesn't line up with the entry to the filter properly)..

Example - did someone install the new filter with the plastic wrapping still intact across the face of the filter?

It would take a LOT of contaminant in the oil (water being the most likely) to block the filter and collapse the paper element which in normal operating situation would allow particles as large as 25 microns to flow thru.

Water however will saturate the paper element and allow it to collapse.

Oil in the water could happen from head gasket problems.

Quite simply changing the oil filter (for the right one) is the very first thing I would to to test for high oil pressure.

Next thing.

Bypass pressure - is there a large amount of bypass gas - such that when you remove the oil filler cap from the top of the rocker cover a lot of smoke escapes under pressure?

Being a turbo diesel - there should be a Exhaust Gas Recirculation system and probably a Positive Cranckcase pressure valve as well.

The positive crank case pressure relief valve should have a air inlet vacuum connection, that with increasing turbo revs, evacuates the crankcase of some of the bypass pressure, in fact lowering it with increasing revs - for the oil pressure to increase IF IT ISN'T THE OIL FILTER BLOCKED then you would think that this decrease in bypasspressure would help lower oil pressure unless all the return gallerys from the top of the engine to the sump are blocked.

That's pretty unlikely.

I'd almost bet my left nurry that the oil filters either blocked or the wrong filter - because the pressure it's operating at is the pressure required to activate the oil filter bypass valve.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Scoof (SA) - Monday, Aug 24, 2009 at 07:59

Monday, Aug 24, 2009 at 07:59
good morning Flywest ,

I'm sure he will read this today and check it out. He did mention to me that this is the first time he has seen this garage use after market oil filters he normally uses genuine oil filters.So good place to start maybe.

He has taken it back to the garage and they put that oil flushing gear through the system , but no change and no sludge came out, as I said earlier this is a engine that has been serviced on time or earlier every time and has been his from new.

Thank you for your reply

Scoof . :-)
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Monday, Aug 24, 2009 at 18:57

Monday, Aug 24, 2009 at 18:57
If he changes to a OEM filter, and the oil pressure doesn't drop back to normal straight away, then here's a "way out of left field possibility" maybe.

Is he possibly using a new fully synthetic oil brand?

The fully syntheitc oils use a base 5 oil which is thin - so thin it tends to want to leak past seals etc, keeping it in the damn engine is usually the biggest issue.

But here's another possibility to contemplate!

Oil normally gets thinner as it gets hotter - i.e. the oil pressure should get higher with revs, but with extra revs comes more heat and the oil as a result thins - and thus the pressure doesn't get as high as one might otherwise expect.

I.e it is a geometric progression not an arithmetic progression of increase.

BUT

Fully synthetic oil isn't like normal oils. As stated it is thin - like singer sewing machine oil - thin.

So - how does it get thick to behave like a 15-W-40 oil then if it is only a base 5 oil to start with?

Well - the oil co's add something to the oil (emulsifier) - which has the same type of properties as the magic goo in your thermo clutch fan, something that thickens as it gets hotter - rather than getting thinner with heat as most oil does.

If your friend maybe has an overheating engine - and is running fully synthetic oil with the heat emulsifier, outside it's recommended operating temperature - MAYBE the emulsifier is thickening the oil beyond it's 40 viscosity and creating the excessive oil pressure as a result.

Heat it enough maybe it's becoming like hp 80-W-90 gear oil thick - the warmer the engine gets?

Just a remote possibility I know - I'd eliminate the "non genuine" filter first.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Scoof (SA) - Tuesday, Aug 25, 2009 at 19:04

Tuesday, Aug 25, 2009 at 19:04
Flywest

Oil pressure problem kinder fixed the mechanic removed all 3 relief valves and could not find any problems. All clean and no signs of wear.

So ended up replacing one of the relief springs with a slightly weaker spring.
It's done the trick but , it sounds a bit strange to fix the problem this way to me.
But the oil pressure now is how it should be.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions along the way.

This 4wd has a after market oil gauge normally no oil gauge in this model so you wonder if there are another GU 4.2 turbo Nissans running around with high oil pressure and would never even know.
All other gizmo's standard only measure oil pressure not the amount of oil pressure.We will see how it go's.

Cheers Scoof. :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris & Debbie (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 25, 2009 at 19:26

Tuesday, Aug 25, 2009 at 19:26
No offence flywest but most of what you have said is complete rubbish and untrue.
Chris.
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 at 21:21

Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 at 21:21
What pert don't you understand Chris?.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris & Debbie (QLD) - Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 at 22:31

Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 at 22:31
Flywest, I didn't understand any of it, sorry.

-Oil filter is before the oil gauge so if blocked the oil pressure would drop.
-Leaving plastic on the filter would be virtually impossible and unless someone cut a hole in the middle and cut it away from the gasket, but anyway see above
-Water will not affect the filter, if it did see above.
- Back pressure would make no difference to the oil pressure no matter how high or low it was.
-Head gasket problems will show up in other ways long before water becomes evident in the oil.
-If all the return oil gallerys were blocked, impossible?. you would end up with no oil in the sump, thats if it all fitted in the rocker cover, therfore low oil pressure
-Oils do not get thicker as they get hotter.
-The magic thermo fan goo (silicone fluid) does not get thicker, the fan speed is regulated by a valve that controls the flow of the fluid.

Please correct me if I am wrong

Chris.

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