Why you should fill your fuel containers on the ground.

You're absolutely correct Shane. Petrol Vapours (and we are talking PETROL) are so bloody dangerous, they can travel a long way, and if they find a source of ignition, which can be a long way from you, act as a fuse and as you watch the ignition race back to you in a heartbeat, your freckle won't have time to tighten before your lights go out, and other's come on.
Just talk to any fire'y about petrol spillages, getting into stormwater drains, and the effects of vapour ignition, a block or three away.
Some goose on here the other night suggested you can stub out a cigarette in petrol and it won't catch fire. Middle Eastern Countries are looking for blokes like him :-)
BTW, IMHO Do Not Ever Transfer PETROL after happy hour has commenced, your lack of judgement will bring you, and others, undone.

Fred.

That goose as you say is quite correct in a certain set of circumstances. It is the vapour above the petrol that ignites. Petrol cannot burn without oxygen so if the air/fuel vapour ratio is high or low you can throw your cigarette in the fuel. It will simply get wet and go out. Simple chemistry.

Yes, but don't throw a second one in after it or "Kaboom"
As apprentices we used to quench hot steel in cut down petrol cans full of petrol or Kero until we put one in straight after and luckily only lost hair off my eyebrows. Boy did the foreman kick my arse till my nose bled. Taught me how to appreciate flammable liquids.

Most of us know what bloody ignites mate, the idea here is to simply get the message across to the unwary.....don't offer ignition whilst petrol (and petrol fumes) are, or could, be present. Any pool of petrol is going to have vapour around it, and for an unknown distance. No time for Russian Roulette.

good on ya Fred, Im "that goose". Take it out of context, you should get a job in the media maybe.

Try it your self and you will find out its true. It wont even ignite vapours, that requires a spark or flame or heat above the ignition point. A smoulder isnt hot enough.
The comment was in regards to the genny fire in NT and what may have caused it, not a recommendation on ways to cause havoc in the Middle East.

Thanks TassieD.

Save the insults thanks Fred, you are welcome to quote my posts but only in context, otherwise leave it out thanks.

Actually Fred, I'd go one up on "Do Not Ever Transfer PETROL after happy hour has commenced" - I never transfer PETROL in a camping area because you never know if someone's got a pilot light, campfire, gas stove/fridge, etc. or just lit up a ciggy downwind (or about to light up)...

Fisho, I think Fred's comment was a joke, hence the ":-)", rather than an insult but regardless IMHO it seems a bit careless to suggest that you could safely stub out a ciggy in petrol - you never know, someone MIGHT just take it out of context, with potentially disastrous consequences...

Im sorry to be insensitive, but if someone was stupid enough that out of context, then the theory of Natural Selection would take effect.

As it happens I was correct. The fire WASNT started by a hot exhaust tailpipe, cigarette etc, it was a pilot light. Both of the above wouldnt start a fire without an ignition source.

"DISCLAIMER"
please do not try anything I have suggested anywhere in my posts without first consulting an expert or Safety Specialist. Any "discussion" is of a general nature and not intended for any specific situation. Information supplied here is not to be read by any person under the age of 18yrs old, nor an adult lacking commonsense or experience in the subject discussed.
No responsibility is accepted by either myself or any member of my family for failing to take reasonable precautions against any accident.

fisho you just beat your chest with the comment "As it happens I was correct. The fire WASNT started by a hot exhaust tailpipe, cigarette etc, it was a pilot light " Wow.!!"

Who argued against that fisho??

The comments we were responding to here fisho, were in respect of some goose irresponsibly IMO saying it is ok to throw a lighted cigarette into petrol.
You owned up to being that goose, and ya know what?
Nothing you have offered has caused me to change my mind.
I've had my share of fire training, and I am extremely passionate about fire saftey, I have seen the tragic side of fire incidents. But I am not saying I know it all, far far from it. I understand the "controled" experiments you are talking about, however, that control isn't in place out in the bush.

Put all the disclaimers you like behind your replies, that won't absolve you from stupid statements.

This not a personal attack BTW, just my opinion.

Fred.

sounds personal, and would be if we were standing beside each other.
Doesnt matter-life exists away from here also. Laugh and move on.

unfortunately I'll have to leave the disclaimer on here in case someone "misinterprets" my comment.


"DISCLAIMER"
please do not try anything I have suggested anywhere in my posts without first consulting an expert or Safety Specialist. Any "discussion" is of a general nature and not intended for any specific situation. Information supplied here is not to be read by any person under the age of 18yrs old, nor an adult lacking commonsense or experience in the subject discussed.
No responsibility is accepted by either myself or any member of my family for failing to take reasonable precautions against any accident.

LOL! Are you gonna put that on all your replies/follow-ups from now on?! ;-)

BTW: Yes, there are many things that one CAN do, but many of them certainly should not be considered to be wise.

:sigh:

its a sign of the times maybe that we will all have to-lest someone does something silly or misunderstands.
And maybe the more officious posters who always follow instructions will not be confused anymore! :-))


"DISCLAIMER"
please do not try anything I have suggested anywhere in my posts without first consulting an expert or Safety Specialist. Any "discussion" is of a general nature and not intended for any specific situation. Information supplied here is not to be read by any person under the age of 18yrs old, nor an adult lacking commonsense or experience in the subject discussed.
No responsibility is accepted by either myself or any member of my family for failing to take reasonable precautions against any accident.

OREJAP you are spot on. The day will come, when a Coroner will recomended that petrol can only be dispensed by a driveway attendant. DEJAVU...Remember those days ???

Can't say I disagree about the dangers of uneducated people doing a dangerous thing with little or no safety equipment etc.

Just look at what we do when we are finished fueling up though.... we point our big metal coffins at each other on a narrow strip of bitumen at a closing speed of up to 220 km/h and take pot luck that the other guy is not drugged or drunk out of their teeny non-caring mind and take us out in a heartbeat. And we do it for hour after hour, day after day, year in year out.

I'll take the perils of the servo forecourt any day.

Muddy

No argument there Muddy, we all take that risk every day.
But, some things are out of our own control, and some things are not.

Stay safe on the road all.

Fred.

Because, by law, all Fuel Pump hoses are conductive, so when you pick it up, your static is discharged.

When you touch the boat, its static is discharged.

Louie, you need a trigger, i.e hot motor, exhaust, motor running, electrical spark, bbq, etc, to offer the petrol fumes ignition. I doubt you have ever filled your boats tank with the motor running.
Many a precious leisure craft has seen it's demise because of petrol fumes in the bilges or confined cabin spaces, as soon as ignition was offered, which can be as simple as turning the ignition key.
The triangle of combustion needs 3 elements.
1. Fuel.....i.e petrol, paper, wood, etc. (combustible material)

2. Oxygen

3. Heat.......i.e. electrical spark, hot motor/exhaust,

Take any one of these away and NO FIRE can happen. That's how you fight a fire, by taking one of these away.

When handling petrol, the easiest and most obvious exclusion must be #3.

Above all, common sense must apply, not bravado. No prizes for second here.

Interesting you should mention the demise of a boat due to petrol vapours in the confined cabin spaces - a certain incident off Ashmore Reef currently "hot" in the press comes to mind...

Maybe there was a smoker amongst them :-)) LOL LOL

Fred.

From reports I've read, there were rumoured to be 'some people smoking' at the time...

I was probably referring more to the static charge thing that everyone goes on about. I think Mike DID covered it. So the thing about a plastic jerry can on the back of a ute is a load of crap then, right? I did see a boat fire on a friends boat some years ago where fuel had dripped on to the exhaust headers. When he opened the engine cover up she went. Luckily we had plenty fire extinguishers around.

Fred, when I was a lad a lot of people came here on boats. I can recall that some of the girls were smokin!

Louie

Louie, as I understand, the important thing is to make sure that the bowser nozzle is in constant contact with the fuel container during the entire refueling process.

I think the requirement to have the jerry placed on the is for the risk of spills - if the jerry is placed on flat/level ground, it's less likely to fall over during refuelling. Probably more of an issue: it's one thing to overflow the petrol onto the concrete driveway of the servo, it's quite another thing to overflow it into the back of a ute which could also be carrying, I don't know: a load of camping gear (swags, clothing, etc.). It's easier to clean up the spill from concrete than from, say, a canvas swag where the vapours would be very difficult to remove. It's easier (and fairer) just to say "no refuelling in the back of a ute, no exceptions" than it is to have the attendant come out and assess your particular situation to determine whether or not it's safe, only to have a potential confrontation with someone who doesn't want to remove their jerries for refuelling...

Placing the fuel container onto the ground also allows the attendant to be able to see if you are using an appropriate container before allowing the pump to start.

It applies to all fuel containers plastic or metal.