Simpson Roll over

Submitted: Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 18:34
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Reply By: MEMBER - Darian (SA) - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 18:44

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 18:44
A VKS737 member too - John's HF ended up unserviceable after the incident (don't they work buried in the sand ?)........ just as well he had the registered Epirb.
AnswerID: 384358

Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 19:10

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 19:10
One very lucky man.
Thank goodness he had a PLB.
We have one and hope like hell we never have to set it off.

Cheers

Stephen
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AnswerID: 384363

Reply By: Crackles - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 19:58

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 19:58
"when a sand dune collapsed under his vehicle"........."overturned during a massive dust storm "
A 63 year old driving solo with no real communication gear crossing the Simpson at a very difficult time of the year! I think the saying "Familiarity breeds contempt" may be appropiate in this case.
Cheers Craig...........
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 20:53

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 20:53
Graig
don't think you read the post correctly, hf radio and epirb and 63 what difference does that make.

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Follow Up By: Oldsquizzy (Kununurra) - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 21:00

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 21:00
He had the right equipment and an alternative backup and they worked so where was the problem.
And I hate to say it but what has age got to do with it...The three people that drive and recover Cars, Vans, Bikes and people in the kimberleys are 61. 63 and 65. Would you like us to stop because we are to old ?
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 21:05

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 21:05
You're right Rock & given an edit button would have changed my hasty response #-o
Craig......
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 06:35

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 06:35
No worries Craig, like to get paid for all the stuffups I have made.

Have a good one
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Follow Up By: Ozboc - Sunday, Sep 27, 2009 at 08:24

Sunday, Sep 27, 2009 at 08:24
I have known people of 63 years or older that are fitter and smarter than people half there age .... age should not have to be the deciding factor in this event ,.

Boc
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Reply By: Member - Glen J (VIC) - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 20:13

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 20:13
It's a shame some quickly pass judgement on others about travelling alone. This guy had an EPIRB, now thats common sense to me and god preparation. Fixed radio's may be useless in this situation and with the EPIRB he did the right thing and activated it under the circumstance.
Some of us do things for whatever reason alone, whether it be in the outback or the high country. Its our freedom of this country that allows us. Now if he had a passenger on the other hand it could have been a more dire situation or a better one, who knows. People are so quick to be critical against one another. We don't know all the facts or what he was carrying so maybe we should just wait for the facts.

No offence to anyone personnally, just my opinion.

Beemer
AnswerID: 384383

Follow Up By: Member - Lotzi (QLD) - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 20:43

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 20:43
here here
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Follow Up By: Member - Old Girl (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 21:36

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 21:36
That's right Glen, Travel alone is what im doing and im a female. The pic of the old girl is me driving. Be it olderish, female what ever if we have the experience common sense and the guts to do it why not.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 21:30

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 21:30
I guess that after being out there in a sand blow less than 2 weeks ago its easy to see how mistakes can be made, but one thing is also clear , the type of vehicle he had , while common, is not very stable in those conditions.

The sand drift in that picture doesn't look very steep.

I hope we get enough extra info to see if a standard wagon might have not rolled over in the same situation.
AnswerID: 384391

Follow Up By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 21:59

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 21:59
What are you talking about Robin.
Stan pinkerton
Living is a journey,it depends on where you go !
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Follow Up By: Brian (Montrose, Vic.) - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 23:34

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 23:34
Not suggesting in any way that I am an expert but I gather the picture in the article was taken after the sand blow and presumably the shape of the dune that collapsed has changed a fair bit since the time that he rolled so I reckon it would be a bit hard to appreciate the full situation he was in initially.
But glad he's ok and is another reminder to us all to carry appropriate safety gear whilst out there.
Brian.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 07:47

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 07:47
Hi Guys

Stan - building the camper section on the rear raising the roll centre and moving the weight towards the back is the classic way of making a vehicle less stable. The question I would like to be able to determine is, was this enough to make the difference as this appears to be a soft roll caused by going at an angle and soft edge sand just moving away. It often happens that way.

The previous week a similar type vehicle in our group came apon a small bling dune at an angle and was quite shook up saying he nearly rolled.

The photo below is of a following vehicle that got stuck but handled the situation much better.




Hi Brian
It seems to say he was rescued less than a day later , so I'm guessing its much as the photo shows.




Image Could Not Be Found

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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 08:25

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 08:25
Hi Robin. Can I request you get over whatever bad experience you ever had with a troopy and get on with life. Frankly your persistent negativeness towards them is running a little thin! Thanks
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Follow Up By: Traveller - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 08:48

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 08:48
Dunno Robin, but that pic of the Nissan shows how NOT to cross over a dune, no matter how small. ALWAYS tackle a sand dune headon and if in doubt, do a recce before the attempt. The latter is not always feasible if you are in heavy sand.

I came over a dune in a desert with trailer in tow and the dune was scalloped out on the other side like in the rollover photo. T'was a hairy moment and both vehicles were airborne (even at a relatively slow speed) for a second or two.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 08:48

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 08:48
One should not be negative or positive Leigh.
Just state the facts as best you can.
You can usually see pretty quickly from the comments if there is a reasoned arguement for the opposing view.

Then let others decide for themselves , its a philosophy I have.

E.G. I could state the bad things about smoking all day - but I would never support banning it or driving in the dessert in summer.
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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:06

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:06
Thanks Robin. I suppose the rush of expertise, "the I told you so factor", is what erks me most. This poor bloke has been through the mill and I'm not sure such comments are all that helpfull nor informed at this point in time. Cheers
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:22

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:22
Hi again Guys

Leigh , I would like more info as well , I didn't refer to the car by make as in our similar experience the car that nearly rolled was a Navara , but it had a similar rear canopy well loaded.


I agree Traveller , I note in my reply a spelling mistake ,"Bling " should be Blind.

In our situation it was more a sand drift than dune and no edge was detected as we were approaching from the west driving into the morning sun.
Hence the leading driver going over wrongly at an angle with just one wheel getting air.

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Follow Up By: Crackles - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 16:55

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 16:55
"Frankly your persistent negativeness towards them is running a little thin!"
Maybe so Leigh but Robin's pretty right in what he's saying. I too find it surprising how easy 70 series fall over particually when other cars can drive up the same place without issue. (Like below)


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Follow Up By: Member - Tony & Julie (FNQ) - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 17:24

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 17:24
Robin Miller - Give us a break! What a silly statement - it was an accident - not the vehicle not the driver, a set of circumstances adding up to just plain bad luck.

Give the guy a break - My Holden is setup just like that, I suppose that is a bad vehicle as well.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 19:01

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 19:01
Hi Guys

They had an interview (voice only) and a bit more info on TV and it does seem to be looking like a lack of Knowledge of the vehicles limitations in those conditions and not that he was blinded by a sand storm etc.

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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 21:00

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 21:00
Hi Robin.
Just how far are you prepared to dig yourself into this character assination?
Do you have any sensitivity toward what he has been through? I suspect you are beyond the threshold of regret but nevertheless may I suggest you consider sending him an apology for your remarks on this site. Just a thought hey!
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 21:16

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 21:16
Hi Leigh

I suspect you might yet see the driver agreeing with me as the facts are emerging !


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Reply By: Shaker - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 23:15

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 at 23:15
I thought EPIRBs should only be activated in "life threatening situations".
AnswerID: 384400

Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 00:15

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 00:15
So a lone rolled vehicle in the Simpson Desert with an approaching sand storm is not a "life threatening situation"?????
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:29

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 09:29
As I read it, the sand storm had passed, & with the Simpson desert being like Bourke Street these days, & it had only been 7 hours, I'm sure it wouldn't have been too much longer before contact could have been made.

I am in the marine industry, & many boats get into worse situations than that & don't activate EPIRBs.

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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:42

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:42
We were in the Simpson last week and got part of the storm, it was very dusty, windy and hot.

People who we were travelling with said it's the worst they have seen the desert for dryness and dust.....some have done over 10 crossings.

In 4 days we passed 3 vehicles so I don't know where you get the idea it's like Bourke Street.

I think he did the right thing with the PLB.

No use being a DEAD heyman!

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Follow Up By: Member - Tony & Julie (FNQ) - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 17:28

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 17:28
Shaker - Better re read :-) Turned over just before the dust storm hit- the worst they had seen.

My EPIRB would be used and it is registered with the car as well. If I pay that much for it I would certainly use it as he did. Cheers Tony
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Sep 25, 2009 at 09:33

Friday, Sep 25, 2009 at 09:33
He would have had food, water, shelter & should have lodged a travel plan.
Next people will be setting off EPIRBs when they get bogged!
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Sunday, Sep 27, 2009 at 12:20

Sunday, Sep 27, 2009 at 12:20
Several years ago a couple died in Central Australia - because they got bogged and had no way of contacting anyone.
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Reply By: Member Brian (Gold Coast) - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 06:25

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 06:25
The main thing here is that he had the right gear, used it, and is still alive and (I assume) relatively unscathed!

Cheers

Brian
AnswerID: 384417

Follow Up By: Gramps - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 18:03

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 18:03
Amen. Unfortunately, the tendency to be judgmental without having all the facts is still alive and well on this Forum.


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Reply By: Member - Tony & Julie (FNQ) - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 17:32

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 17:32
Good situation for a Hand Winch - May have been able to right it again. Question is how much can you carry? :-)

PS Have done just that, but will not confess where :-0
AnswerID: 384491

Reply By: Member - Flynnie (NSW) - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 19:13

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 19:13
My 2 cents worth.

Did he do well enough in the circumstances? Not was he perfect, pure as the driven snow and one who never ever made a mistake or an error of judgement and all those things that none of us are?

Well I was not there when this happened. From what I can gather things went very nasty very quickly with the sandstorms. I was out there twice August and September 2009 (hey its still September seems so long ago now) and would not have wanted to face the sandstorms that have happened since.

From what I can gather in the comfort of distance, time and a bit of reflection I think he did pretty well. Yeah he got into a bit of trouble and he did the right thing to get out of it. He had backup to the HF radio and used it.

Well done I would say. And a word of thanks to the police and the others involved in the rescue.

He was better prepared than me and I did a double solo crossing just me and vehicle. The only CB I carried on the first crossing failed and I had no backup. Had fixed that for the second crossing and had backup (but not near as good as his). He did not make the same mistake I did of no backup.

So what really is there to criticise? Oh he rolled the vehicle. Well maybe yes maybe no. I find his account very plausible and would just say "Bad luck mate" Hope you have a better crossing next time".

AnswerID: 384507

Reply By: Member - Old Girl (QLD) - Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 21:52

Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 at 21:52
To all you cranky ones tonight. It looks to me as if the ute fell over not rolled. So many experts tonight that have never nearly fallen over lol.
I logged on tonight hoping to read more and hope the poor fella wasn't a forum member and all ive read is (some) experts that know nothing.
AnswerID: 384525

Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Friday, Sep 25, 2009 at 20:07

Friday, Sep 25, 2009 at 20:07
Woo Hoo, go Old Girl, finally someone talking sense, the man was well organised and saved his life, which is the reason he went to the trouble to be organized.
Although guessing like all the rest i imagine that the galeforce wind blown sand made wheel placement difficult if not blooody hard, and no matter what he was driving he would probably have ended up in the same situation.

Pesty
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Sep 25, 2009 at 20:43

Friday, Sep 25, 2009 at 20:43
The driver was interviewed on ABC radio this afternoon.

He's crossed the Simpson FOUR times before.

He was westbound.

The ferocious storm arrived AFTER the rollover, so the shape of the sand in the photo may bear little relationship to the shape when the rollover occurred.
AnswerID: 384646

Follow Up By: Member - Teege (NSW) - Friday, Sep 25, 2009 at 22:18

Friday, Sep 25, 2009 at 22:18
Well I guess by the law of averages, and taking into account our resident rollover expert's evidence, the guy was due for a rollover!!!

teege
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Saturday, Sep 26, 2009 at 09:13

Saturday, Sep 26, 2009 at 09:13
Hi Mike

It appears unlikely that the sand dune has moved much , as it would be blown in the direction of the car as per the photo's and the car is still mostly uncovered.

His description was that he "rolled off the crest of a dune" , so he didn't go over it at right angles.

The main picture certainly supports the above in that he went at an angle along the edge and the soft sand just pushed out and away from him.

In the picture the trailing edge of the sand dune isn't even that steep or
that deep really and this is after the blow.

The physics of the car then just took it down.

It a natural reaction to take one's foot off accelerator just at that point which then causes a twisting momentum just when you don't want it, whereas , some acceleration may have helped , but usually that type of car also has little scope for quick acceleration.

He is relatively local here so hope to get more info yet.









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