High output aerials
Submitted: Monday, Sep 28, 2009 at 21:13
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burnsy
Pulled up by Qld transport recently & was told that I need to remove one aerial as you are only allowed to have one high output aerial on your bull bar.
I questioned that since one was a UHF limited to 5 watts & the other was a unpowered mobile phone aerial I considered that neither was high output.
I was still instructed to remove one.
I checked the Qld website & sure enough they only allow one high output aerial.
no more qualification on what they consider high output is.
Has anybody come across this issue?
Reply By: RoberHL (SEQ) - Monday, Sep 28, 2009 at 21:30
Monday, Sep 28, 2009 at 21:30
Sounds like he was trying to get up his qouta,as i have & probably lots of other people have seen multiple areals on vehicles,especially the cowboy utes.
AnswerID:
384996
Reply By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Monday, Sep 28, 2009 at 22:55
Monday, Sep 28, 2009 at 22:55
Hi Burnsy,
As I have both HF and tapped UHF antennas on my bull bar this concerned me.
Were you required to remove one on
the spot before proceeding or were you instructed to remove one after you got home? Were you given written notice or was is just verbal?
My search of Qld Transport website produced the following:
"LONG RANGE RADIO ANTENNAS
Forward mounting should only be undertaken when it is
impossible or impractical to install the antenna to the
rear of the vehicle.
The installation must be attached as low as is practical
to ensure the large diameter section of the antenna
projects above the bonnet line for the minimum distance.
Only one long range antenna (large diameter base) may
be fitted to the front of a vehicle and must be fitted to
the left side. The maximum diameter permitted is 75mm.
All sharp edges or protrusions which could cause injury
to anyone making contact with the device must be
removed or rounded."
Note that it refers to "long range antenna (large diameter base)" which I take to be autotune HF antennas. Whilst they don't say so, they are probably concerned with visual obstruction to the driver.
It's quite possible that the Qld Transport officer that spoke to you knew, or remembered, only the "only one long range antenna" part of the regulation.
In any case, I'll leave both of
mine on and keep my fingers crossed.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - John - Monday, Sep 28, 2009 at 23:02
Monday, Sep 28, 2009 at 23:02
Allan, keep a copy of the reg with you..................
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Follow Up By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Monday, Sep 28, 2009 at 23:09
Monday, Sep 28, 2009 at 23:09
Yes, good idea John. I'll put a copy in the glovebox. Although my experience has been that it can be futile to argue with an authority! Except maybe in court through a QC, and that can be very expensive.
FollowupID:
652745
Follow Up By: burnsy - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 06:40
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 06:40
Alan B
given 24 hours to remove it & given a Pink slip with a stat dec to
sign & send back to the transport dept that I had removed the offending aerial.
The officer informed me that they consider a mobile phone aerial of any type high output & if your Uhf can use duplex to work of of repeaters then that to was high output. He showed me a small booklet with very similar wording to the website you found. He informed me that the Windy bit at the base of the aerial increases the transmitting power to high output. I am no radio geek but I always believed that you can't get more power out of something unless you put more into it.
I too have a HF aerial but it was not mounted at the time.
I Questioned how Police/DOT & emergency
services can get away with it, His reply was that they do not have high output aerials on the front of their vehicle??????.
Did you also know that if you have rear facing work/flood lights that there has to be a inhibitor switch that prevents them from operating when the vehicle is in forward gear!!!!. I'll leave that alone.
Mike
FollowupID:
652749
Follow Up By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 08:10
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 08:10
Mike, thanks for that response.
The booklet you referred to was where I got my cut-and-paste from. It is a Qld Transport booklet on Vehicle Modifications and can be viewed at ---
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/ebde8d0521b67c6/Pdf_modification_motor_vehicles2.pdf
I think your D of Transport officers are mis-interpreting the rules somewhat. There is no reference to "high output" in that booklet, only to "long range". Furthermore, the "windy bit at the base of the aerial" that he referred to is surely the spring mount for flexibility and in no way has any influence on radio output or range.
Nevertheless, the bloke holding the "pink slip" book has all the power! LOL
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Follow Up By: Member -Signman - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:54
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:54
G'day Allan,
Where'd ya get the tapped UHF antenna?? Interesting !!
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Follow Up By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 15:52
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 15:52
Yeah thanks Signman. I meant UHF and tapped HF. Duh. But any fool would have known that! LOL.
By saying "tapped HF" I wished to convey that
mine was not one of those big fat autotune thingys that sit right in front of SWMBOAAT.
Mind you, the Troopy is beginning to look rather like an American Communications Base since I added another antenna for the mobile phone.
Perhaps I could add a dummy reflector dish with a large helical element on the roof rack and stir up the Transport Dept enforcers! Maybe a remote control in my pocket to surreptitiously aim it at them whilst talking to me! Haha, the mind boggles.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 19:24
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 19:24
Sounds like a mistake to me Burnsy, however there is a possibility that the police officer meant High Voltage , not high output.
The usual HF antenna with base matching coil can generate very high voltages and even spark off under some circumstanes as they can put out 100 watts or so which is much more than your phone or UHF antenna.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 20:28
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 20:28
That's typically brilliant public-service logic, the previous page allows Ladder rack supports forward of the A Pillar provided they're less than 50mm diameter - with NO limit on how many supports.
The limit for a "long range aerial" is 75mm, so you could argue that a 25mm aerial is nowhere near the size of a long-range aerial.
In other states NO long-range aerials are allowed - the mximum diameter is 30mm.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: DIO - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:44
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:44
Police and Emergency
Services by the very nature of their work are not required to comply - ALTHOUGH in the interests of road safety they would ensure that any vehicle and or equipment is mounted/equipped in such a way as to minimise any
hazard to driver or pedestrians etc. and provide a safe work place environment for their employees.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: OREJAP - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:32
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 12:32
Sometimes it makes you wonder what interest some doesn't bother others!!! I know in Victoria for example a HF aeriel (and others) cannot be any wider than 30ml on the front section of a vehicle. Any larger would obstruct fwd vision
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 20:31
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 20:31
If he really said "high-output aerial" he didn't know what he was talking about - the regulations say absolutely nothing about output power.
The limit is on the diameter of the aerial base 75mm.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 21:35
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 21:35
I believe that it is pretty obvious that the regulation addresses only Autotune Antennas due to a perception that they may obscure driver vision. Here, in part, is what the booklet states: ...............
"LONG RANGE RADIO ANTENNAS"
......"The installation must be attached as low as is practical
to ensure the large diameter section of the antenna
projects above the bonnet line for the minimum distance.
Only one long range antenna (large diameter base) may
be fitted to the front of a vehicle and must be fitted to
the left side. The maximum diameter permitted is 75mm."
It refers to "Long Range Antennas" to distinguish from Mobile Phone, UHF and FM/AM antennas (in other words, it means HF antennas) then further defines it as"(large diameter base)" and limits it to 75mm diameter which can only mean Auto Tune types. The regulation would do better to refer to any antenna with a diameter greater than say 30mm.
I think that Burnsy's inspector has put his own interpretation on the expressions in the booklet, which in any case carries this disclaimer: "The contents of this publication are a guide only and cannot be used as a reference to a point of law." So if I encounter this situation, I will endeavour to educate the inspector and if that fails will lodge formal objection to the Pink Slip.
In the meantime I will search for the actual Regulation.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: burnsy - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 22:16
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 22:16
Allan I don't know what I started here but the officer involved was adamant that mobile phone and uhf antennas are in fact High output (long range)
My interpretation of the booklet is as you suggest that it refers to Hf equipment. It even gives you a picture of a tapped antenna.
I would be very interested in what you can find in the legislation as my patience runs out quickly surfing govt web sites
My work involves certification of elevating work platforms & machines used as cranes and the Aust standard for this area is carefully worded to leave a large area of
grey. I have even got a written reply from my insurance company stating that the outcome of certain liability claims is up to the interpretation of a judge on the day.
You may
well find that no body knows what is legal & what is not with antennas.
Mike
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Teege (NSW) - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 22:32
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 22:32
Allan
I will also be very interested to read the actual regulation. I am also intigued by the fact that the officer concerned was a "transport inspector". In NSW, Police are the only ones empowered to enforce Transport regulations for vehicles other than heavy vehicles. I recall a story about a "transport inspector" who pulled over a car for speeding on a freeway. He took a giant step backwards when he discovered the occupants of the car were two police sergeants. I notice that Burnsy says he was issued with a notice to correct the problem. I wonder about the legality of it. But then again it is in Queensland!!!
teege
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Follow Up By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 22:56
Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 at 22:56
Burnsy, Yes, my patience has run out too! I'll concern myself if I cop a Pink Slip.
Their use of a picture of a Tapped HF Antenna may simply illustrate that the compilers of the booklet don't know what its all about either!
Teege, Yes, it IS in Queensland!!!!!!!! LOL
FollowupID:
652856
Follow Up By: Angler - Thursday, Oct 15, 2009 at 16:25
Thursday, Oct 15, 2009 at 16:25
I am sort of glad I mounted my autotune on the spare wheel mount.
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