Thoughts on DEFENDER

for the price the finish is diabolicle. Rough, uncomfortable as they come.

We had a few in Sydney at work for the spanner men, and didnt seem to go to bad, but yea just that riveted together look, for $50+k? If they were $35 then I would consider it.

We had one for a short while , a 2 cab ute , diesel , I hated it , no power and off road capability was a sham, well in muddy conditions it was nowhere . I have heard the short wheel base are ok , but never owned one . Craigs hut 2003

Check out the archive
thread 6771 covers a lot of what you want to know.

Defender Extreme

This is taken from another forum, however I happen to agree with it.

78 Series... Leaf sprung rear end... Welcome to the Horse and Cart!
A vehicle with a basic design from the 40 series.

100 Series... Overgrown land barge... Large wallowing cumbersome beast.
Needs an instant suspension upgrade to prevent you getting seasick.
Friend has one (due to having 4 kids) and says he likes it but would prefer
a Discovery Series 2 bit needs the space for the kids. This guy has had 3
patrols 2 GQ, 1GU and 1 80 and now the 100 series.

GU Patrol... Great vehicle ruined by being fitted with High and Mid range
gearing (Low not low enough)
Better than a Cruiser, tougher and more about practicality than the cruiser.
Virtually unbreakable drivetrain although older 3.0L are questionable.
Currently in bad need of major revamp (due to age not ability)

Kia Sportage... Actually an amazingly capable offroader within its limits.
Good LSD and short wheel base allows it to be driven more precisely and with
the agility of the SWB and the LSD pushing can climb many hills with easy.
Lack of ground clearnace can be an issue, and it will poke a wheel in the
air quite easily.
Good budget buy for the occasional offroader.

Landrovers... The anit-kudos 4wd!!!

Old design works on the 'if-it-aint-broke-dont-fix-it' motto. A practical
no-frills vehicle with a slab sided profile (no worse than 78 series) that
allows it to go through some rather tight tracks without catching fragile
(expensive) plastics components.

Large interior space in the rear.

Simple interior means no panicking when climbing in or out with mud etc on
boots.
TD5 motor is smooth and powerful enough to propel the vehicle along quite
nicely.

Excellent articulation from factory.
Off the floor will out-flex the 78 or GU easily.
78 only wins with lockers fitted.

More affordable than equiv troopy. Fit difflocks to the Landy and its still
cheaper than stock 78.

If you want modern comfort from Landrover then the Discovery MY03 and the
Range Rover are definately 2 of the most comfortable/plush yet capable
offroaders on the market.

They are also running with the others on the forefront of 4wd technology.

I did some reserarch into the anti-LR attitude and found:

1. Historic. Older Landies, Series I Discos, were very unreliable.
2. It's Not A Toyota Or A Patrol syndrome.

You'll also find that a lot of the detractors have never sat in one,
driven one or seen one go offroad. So they repeat what they've heard.

The interior is more basic than most, but do you *really* need power
windows and cupholders?

The Defender has more room in the back than either the Patrol or the
100 Series. This is because of the shorter bonnet and squarer body.
It can also carry 1 tonne+. Payload for the others is a lot less.

Defender Xtremes have very good, possibly market leading?
articulation, excellent clearance, 1:43 crawl ratio and traction
control. So I think they are highly capable out of the box.

Because the Defender weighs less than 2000kg, just, it uses a lot less
juice than a 2400kg Patrol or Cruiser. It's also got a modern tdi
engine which helps. Fuel economy is reported to be around 8-12/100,
whereas 4X4 Australia's recent test had significantly higher figures
for the Patrol; 14-16/100.

From what I can see the later Defenders are very reliable.

I think the Landy is a great vehicle much malined by those who don't know. Like all vehicles they have their shortcomings but it is not reliability or economy, at least in diesel form.

An interesting note from the 50th aniversary magazine published in 1998. Approximately 60% of series 1 and 2 vehicles ever produced were still registerd for road use. That does not include the hundreds of the things running around on farms throughout the world unregistered but still working hard.

There are two reasons I don't own one. The Boss hates the appearance, that has been covered by just about everyone. The second and most compelling is the touring speed and comfort. A mate of mine had one and loved it but touring at 80 to 90km/h in this country is just too slow. The car will go faster but it is just not comfortable at higher speeds. Mate now drives a GU

If you spend 90%of your time off road then the Disco is probably the go.

Duncs.

I travelled for a month through Suthern Africa in a Defender 110. I currently own a 100 Series and these are the ressons why:

I hated the driving position in the Defender - steering wheel was positioned way over to the right and I kept hitting my elbow on the door when turning.

I found the narrow opening rear door restrictive to get things in and out of it. The full width ones on most other vehicles are much better.

We were quite heavily loaded but due to the Defenders narrower track it seemed quite unstable compaired to the Land Cruiser.

The engine felt underpowered but in saying that the Defender went anywhere that any other vehicle could go.

The amount of heat coming through the passenger side floor/transmission tunnel was unbearable, the exhaust ran quite close here on the Defender we had - a 200 TDi not the TDi5.

However,

The Defender had loads of room for gear in the back (although difficult to pack large things - as above)

It's really easy to add accessories and customize it due to the simple square shape.

I do like the traditional (some could read dated) look of the vehicle, but it's not everyones cup of tea.

And there's my 2 cents worth, hope my experiences help.

I own a 2002 TD5 Defender with 60,000kms on the clock.
Problems so far: None at all.
Fuel consumption: Average 10.5l/100ks
Comfort: No frills at all but great for the outdoor type, no need to worry about muddy boots etc. The car can be hosed out if necessary! I find the driver's seat very comfy and secure. 110" wheelbase gives reasonable road comfort. I drive 120kms a day on freeway at 110kph with no stress and plenty of oomph in the motor. Off-road it's extremely capable and trustworthy and has surprised me with its surefootedness on very steep slopes. The TD5 is wonderful for slow downhill crawls with no feet on the pedals, just let it make its own way. The one time I needed traction control I discovered later that I was using it incorrectly. I was carefully avoiding spinning the wheels and rocked myself out of the mud-hole after about 10 minutes - I subsequently found out that I should have allowed the wheels to spin in order for the traction control to detect the problem and fix it -i.e I should have given it some welly! I did get out of the hole though.
Reasons for purchasing: I've always wanted one since my youth in Blighty. Didn't want a car with hard-to-keep-clean soft furnishings. I prefer a traditional appearance. Needed a tow-car and hobby-farm vehicle which I can carry bales of hay in. Much more space in the back than most other 4WDs for camping gear etc. It was just under $50K brand new. I like the fellowship of the Defender "wave".

Gripes: Heating and cooling is typically pommy and inefficient. No CD player. Replacement fuel cap cost me $125 when I left one behind at a servo.

I am thoroughly satisfied with it.

I've had mine for around 4 months and I'm quite happy with it. So's the cook so that's half the battle!
Yes, it's badly put together and somewhat strange compared to the carlike other vehicles around, but I find it comfortable enough on long runs.
If anybody finds it difficult to turn the wheel without banging their arms, try sitting further back, not close up looking like a dog begging for a bone, and you'll find you'll have better control over any vehicle,
Transmission is freeing up nicely which I found personally difficult at first especially coming from an auto.
More comfortable over corrugations and rough stuff than my previous vehicle which was a 300 Tdi Discovery.
Pulls a 1.5 tonne van easily and will stay at 90 kph. all day if neccessary. Economical at around 10/100 around town, where unfortunately I do most of my driving.
Being straight sided and not such pretty paintwork as the Disco, I don't cringe every time a branch squeals it's way down the side of it.
Don't have to pay over 50 grand (or anywhere near that) for one in Perth, ring a country dealer and upset Barbagallo's the main, couldn't care less dealer!
Let the debate between Nissan and Tojo continue, I couldn't care less about that either!

Dave, Some love them, some hate them....... each to their own..... Regards Mark

We've had our Defender Extreme 110 for two years, done 60,000 of outback travel and have not experienced any problems. I believe a choice of vehicle comes down to what you intend to do with it and does your choice represent value for money.

All three, Toyota , Nissan , and Landrover, are capable vehicles and each is designed to provide a suitable platform for off-road driving. They've all been around for a long time and all are proven vehicles.

However, being a die-hard Landie fan, I must point out a couple of facts. Landrover was the first to pioneer Full Time Four Wheel Drive in its 1969 Range Rover. In 1992 Traction Control was introduced to the rear drive of the Range Rover. In 1997 Traction Control was introduced to all four wheels of the Freelander, in addition to Hill Descent Control.

It seems Land Rover has set the trend well ahead of the field ! Many of these features are only being introduced to the latest Toyota Prado.

However, if there is one fault that seems to be common to all three vehicles it is often the failure of the nut on the end of the throttle. Used sensibly, all three are awesome vehicles.

Good luck and no matter how you do it, just get out there and do it!!

Defender 90 is awesome. Voted best car by the BBC Topgear (could be bias here)

Only problem is who will be making the motor now? BMW was good but now Ford it belongs to Ford. Sorry Ford guys, but we need a good Diesel to fill the hole.

Spares could be a problem here in years to come.

But I'll buy the Landie when I retire my 80 series..LWB Landie carries 9 adult, 1 more that a Cruiser. Let's hope a relable TD motor appears in the near future.

G'day old Jack, Ta your response, and no sooner had I pecked my bit of bumph out the missus came home with the SMH and lo and behold, the lead drive story is the "new" disco! With among other goodies, ford v6/v8 petrol, v6 turbo diesel courtesy peugeot/citroen. 6 speed auto, etc. Could end up being decent competion for prado/pajero!
cheers haze

"that riveted together look, for $50+k? If they were $35 then I would consider it."

This is a good point but there is a reason for it. Because of the particular construction of the body it can't be assembled by robot so is actually built by hand, hence is much more labour intensive.

So Defender owners have a hand-built European vehicle!

The body design really is antiquated (though I love it) and really should have died years ago but people keep buying 'em, in fact Defender sales rose 18% in the last year (worldwide).

As far as comfort goes, I have found that it is only very tall (6'2" or more) or overweight people that have a problem.

The current rumour is that the next engine will be a 2.7L V6 common rail Td with a variable vane turbo which is a jointly developed Ford/Peugeot motor.

Remember 97% of all rovers ever made are still on the road.

the other 3% made it home.

I was surprised that this thread managed to stay reasonably sensible and did not end up in a real slanging match as some recent threads have. It is pleasing to see that we can have a mature discussion on a topic which can become pretty emotive.

The discussion about LR's NEARLY made it this time without the normal tirade of abuse from drivers of other makes, desperate to show their ignorance.
Keep it off Truckster, it doesn't become you and just shows how hard up you are to contribute anything of value.
IF you've ever owned a Land Rover of any description, speak about it and your own experiences, if you haven't, shut up as we aren't interested in bar room bull bleep .

Landrovers ...... love em or hate em. There's no half way. I was also pleased to note early in the thread that the endless drivel of the Nippon clan was noticeably absent ....... that is until some of the mindless cretins happened upon this sensible string of discussion and insisted in throwing in their two pennyth worth.

I started my affair with 4WDs in the mid-seventies with a 3 cyl 2 stroke Suzuki. A quite amazing vehicle which was almost fully loaded with yours truly + the ex and our rather hugh G Shepherd. He had this alarming habit of bouncing around in the back releasing large quantities of appalling flatus and threatening to overturn the vehicle by his movement whenever he espied another hound by the roadside.

This was followed by an MQ Patrol which was ... at that time also a quite impressive vehicle, being the nip's first attempt at producing a "car like" 4WD.

This was followed by my 1st Landie ... 3.9 Isuzu County and what a vehicle that was ... compared to the leaf sprung dray alternatives of the day. Imagine this ... the poms threw in ... at no extra cost... all the dust and water leaks you could ever want .. at least they balanced the "in" holes with an equal number of "out" ones.
They also threw in a vehicle of amazing ability which was virtually unstoppable when compared with anything save a Pinzgauer or Unimog.

Here my love em or hate em comment earlier ... unfortunately I was bitten by the dastardly landie bug, from which it would appear there is no cure.

This was followed by a TDi Defender, a V8 Disco and now an XTreme.
The Disco was great (except for the thirst) but copped a lot of underbody of damage at Boggy Hole during an extensive trip earlier this year ... but that's another story and it would have been nice if the NPWS put up a "No Through Road" sign at the southern end .... seems they may have now??

We plan numerous serious forays into the bush and in deciding on a replacement vehicle (which was due, regardless of the damage) I managed to convince the new herself that a Landie was the way to go. My argument being that regardless of whether it's a Disco, Tojo or Nissan .. they're all equally likely to sustain some degree of panel or under body damage in any serious off-road situation.. even in the hands of their incredibly skilled owner/drivers.

True they are a most uncompromising vehicle when it comes to creature comforts and ergonomics .. why else would they put leccie windows up front (just in case the footpath pundits have never tried the front window winders). However one amazing thing is this ... I had not driven one in about 7 years but climbing in was just like slipping on a comfortable old shoe.

Rosco

My 2 cents worth...saw this happen whilst on hols a couple of months ago:

Went into the Norweigan Bay whaling station ruins on Ningaloo Station. Approaching from the south, this involves crossing over a ridge of very big sand dunes with a final long steep descent. Fairly soft sand but not the really fine, powdery stuff. Coming back out of course means you've got to climb back up this big dune. A lot of people we talked to took the easy option and left their vehicles at the top and walked in rather than have to tackle the return climb. Anyway, as we were leaving a Defender was in front. He'd obviously lowered tyre pressures (we estimated to about 15lb), he lined up the dune, gunned it and got about a quarter of the way up before coming to a stop. Backed down onto what was obviously used by many as a "launching pad" and has another go. Not a hope! After several more attempts, he gives up. By this stage, we're sitting there in our GU thinking "bloody hell, we've got to get back up there too!" Anyway, we had 25lb in the tyres but being a bit slack we decided "see how we go first, then if we need to we can drop 'em down more." Then away we go. Got about third of the way up to where there was a relatively sharp LH bend and we're stopped. Back down onto the launchpad for a straight run, gun it and next thing we're at the top of the dune with plenty of yipping and yeharring. Go the Nissan! We watched and waited at the top for the Defender, ready to lend a hand, but he'd given up. To his credit he backtracked a bit and found another way out.

Anyway Dave, you make up your own mind. Just telling you what I saw. BTW, I'm damn sure we could have made that climb out in any of our previous 4WD's (2xLC and a Paj).

:o) Melissa

Petrol 4.5L GU Patrol &
Camprite TL8 offroad camper

Hey guys.
I learnt to drive in a first rangie followed by an early county and the bug bit there. 8 years on and i'm looking at a 99 tdi. I have always loved landies but as many people have said it is a personal thing.

At the moment i own a pajero io. now whilst most smart ass cruiser drivers laugh and make comments about problems with speed humps this car has beaten some of the best. on recent trips in the last year i have beaten a cruiser pajero and prado up a hill pulled a cruiser out of a creek and beaten a defender up a slippery slope with no wheelspin. I agree with comments made earlier. it is most often the nut behind the wheel and not the vehicle. the defender driver informed me he needed no training he had read the book!!!!!!! somebody else had to get in and take over when he got stuck. training is the go.

Anyway go the landies!!!!!!!!!