Somewhere between UHF and HF.

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 18:39
ThreadID: 73201 Views:3325 Replies:9 FollowUps:5
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During the '70s I worked for a haulage company in NZ.
We communicated on 2 way radios, with a base set at the office. Although we couldnt talk to anyone 100's of kms away, we did have clear reception up to 60kms away from base, the signal passing through city highrises and many hills.

The units from memory were 'TAIT' or something similar, taxis at the time used the same radio.

Compared to these old units, UHF is like spitting into the wind and HF is just overkill in price and range.

Just wondering if anyone can remember these units and what happened to medium distance communications ?


Cheers......Lionel.
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Reply By: Ozhumvee - Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 19:06

Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 19:06
They were probably VHF, you could get a licence to use a specific frequency and it was for your business alone. The Dept of communications would allocate the frequency for your business to use. Subject to annual licence fees for base and mobile radios and additional fees for every frequency.
AnswerID: 388099

Reply By: Rockape - Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 19:11

Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 19:11
Lionel,
commercial operators use Vhf and that is proably what you had.

A good few years ago we were going to Middleton from Selwyn for a few quiet ones at the Middleton Hilton and the mine radio was on, picked up some calls 123k by road from the mine.

Our repeater was on a large ridge and were on top of the Finnucane range.

Ship to shore and ship to ship also use Vhf

It is very clear and storms do not affect it but is also line of sight

Have a good one
AnswerID: 388100

Reply By: dbish - Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 19:14

Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 19:14
Hi Lionel . I remember back in early 70s worked for ETSA the line trucks used VHF @ 25Watts & they certainly covered beter distances. Marine comunication is in VHF band & alowed 25Watts.
AnswerID: 388101

Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 20:39

Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 20:39
Yep, we used VHF radio's in the Suzuki Club in Darwin in the 70's. Radios were surplus equipment from Telecom. One of our Members worked there and procured these sets for the club. They gave very clear reception up to 50-60km as you mention. Wonder what happended to them....memory is fading ...lol

Cheers
AnswerID: 388116

Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 20:51

Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 20:51
we still use vhf for comm's in the fire truck for on fire ground comms.

Pesty
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Follow Up By: Member - William H (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 22:55

Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 22:55
Used them on the ferries in Darwin in the seventies and had one in each boat a base station and one in the car,we could go down the track as far as humty do and could still hear the boats,all was clear and no interference, call sign was Vh5xy.

Cheers for now...William H...Bunbury...WA.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 20:52

Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 20:52
Those VHF radios are still in use today by some 4wd clubs Lionel.

The freq is approximately 160mhz compared to UHF at 477mhz.

They offer better coverage in the hilly victorian bush.

Amateur radios operators like me still use them on 144mhz running up to 150w to maximize medium range coverage.




AnswerID: 388119

Reply By: Eric Experience - Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 21:20

Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 21:20
Lionel.
The radios you remember were probably 160 megs. The main difference with radios now is the amount of interference, The modern radios are just as sensitive as the old ones but the background noise is much higher, Switch mode power supplies the explosion of radio devises and vehicle electronics cause the automatic sensitivity control in the modern radio to wind the signal threshold up very high. Fitting a high gain antenna does not change the signal to noise ratio. Eric
AnswerID: 388132

Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 21:22

Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 21:22
Ok, thanks gentlemen.

Now - 2 possibly stupid questions,

VHF cannot communicate to UHF or HF, so would it be pointless having one aboard ?

Why has UHF been forced to use such a low power output ?


Cheers.....Lionel.
AnswerID: 388134

Follow Up By: Farko - Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 21:46

Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 21:46
Like any radio network, you can only talk to those on your frequency / system. That is why companies, fire services, police etc have allocated frequencies that are separate from other users. So, yes it is probably pointless having VHF.

UHF CB operates under a licencing system where most channels can be used anywhere. With low power, interference between users is minimal. Channels are re-used in quite close proximity.
Organisations that need the VHF type range have a frequency licenced for a particular location or area. That frequency is not re-used for a significant distance around it. The higher power transmissions can then be used without interfering with other users.

In the 70's the VHF channels were widely spaced at 30kHz and had strong signals. In the 90's DOTAC made more channels available but cut all channes to 12.5 kHz spacing so the signals are not so robust now.

cheers
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FollowupID: 655724

Follow Up By: obee1212 - Thursday, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:26

Thursday, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:26
Well put bleep o

the lower frequencies tended to bend with the curvature f the earth or skip between the earth an the ionosphere and interfere with other networks around the world. The higher the frequency the straighter the path the radio waves take. This keeps us from being swamped by traffic.

In these circumstances more power will not improve anything at ground level because the horizon is not far away. UFH and VHF penetrate well too where there is rain or trees, as far as I remember.

Sometimes, however, we get atmospherics or what they call ducting. This is a layer of air at different temperature than the outside layers and it will take a uhf/vhf signal hundreds of kilometres.

those who used to own (or still do) the 27meg cb's will have experienced talking to America or the other side of Australia when the ionosphere was active with the sunspot cycle. 27meg was supposed to behave like a vhf and not pick up stuff at long distances but it sits in a spot on the radio band where vhf and hf are close together and it behaves as either from time to time.

30meg is where the definition changes from hf to vhf.

So fr as I remember from when I did amatuer radio license.

Owen
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 21:43

Wednesday, Oct 21, 2009 at 21:43
Yep they would have been VHF on either A or B band.

We had B band radios when I drove taxis in Dunedin They had great range but the Government, wise people all, phased them out.

The difference was noticeable in the aerials The A band always had a blue band on the aerial B band had a red band.

We were using them right up to 2000 in a crappy old fleet of buses.

We bought them off St John Ambulance for $100 each all complete.

The Taxis went to D band which was no where near as good as the B as the

higher the freq the less the distance.

They had to install 3 repeaters as the city was quite hilly and had lots of dead

spots where there wasnt hardly any on the old ones

The new ones were digital Taits at $1900 each and were able to integrate

with computer dispatching.

AnswerID: 388137

Reply By: Member - Phantom (WA) - Thursday, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:38

Thursday, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:38
Hey Lionel,
I always heard that "he who has a TAITS is lost".

LOL

Steve
AnswerID: 388199

Follow Up By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Thursday, Oct 22, 2009 at 23:28

Thursday, Oct 22, 2009 at 23:28
HAHAHAHA.......Scratched my head for half an hour before the penny dropped.



Cheers......Lionel.
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