The real tyre pressure.

Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 10:20
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There has been a lot of posts about tyre pressure and how important it is.

Driving on sand, dirt roads and the black top all require a change in tyre pressure.
We all have been advised at what pressure to run, but how accurate is the tyre pressure gauge, and how good is the one that you use.

I have had a vehicle struggle on sand after being advised what pressure to have the tyres set at. When I checked the tyres there was a 3psi difference between the two tyre pressure gauges.

Most tyre pressure gauges that we have would not be calibrated and the accuracy would be in question.

What I do now is set the tyres at the recommended pressure for driving on sand and if the vehicle is still having trouble driving on sand or dunes is to lower the tyre pressures. I will first lower the front tyres 2psi, and if this does not solve the problem 2psi will be taken out of the rear tyres.

Dropping tyre pressure is the right thing to do but what is the real tyre pressure?

Wayne
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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 10:41

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 10:41
Wayne,

First let me say that I think you are right. The accuracy of portable tyre pressure gauges is questionable. I only carry 1. I figure it is at least consistent so all my tyres will be at the same pressure even if it is not the pressure actually displayed on the gauge.

There are a lot of variables when it comes to driving conditions, gravel is different to clay, is different to road base, or sandstone, or limestone and sand varies from place to place, season to season and with moisture content.

I have a system which gives me starting points, so on sand I always start at about 18psi on my gauge. If that is too soft or too hard I make a judgement call as to how much to adjust it by. Sometimes it will be 2psi sometimes more. I generally get it pretty right with the second adjustment or maybe I just make do.

When I did the Simpson Desert I started at 18psi at Dalhousie but by the time I got over Big Red I was down to about 13.

The thing I take from this is that there are no rules. 4 wheel driving is an art not a science.

Duncs
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:32

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:32
Science is behind the reason we let our tyres down!

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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:33

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:33
Duncs, that is interesting about your pressures going over big red. Most people would think that too low for a loaded tourer but I, like you, dropped my pressures to 14 rear and 10 front and had no problem on big red while a mate on 20 front and rear struggled on one of the three passes. Naturally if you are running pressures this low your driving must be adjusted to suit as well but it can be done safely with better results for the truck and the track.

Wayne it is all just trial and error isn't it? something that sorts itself out the more you do it and use your gauge. You just get to know what has worked for you in the past and that is your starting point I reckon.

Cheers, Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Wilk0 - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:29

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:29
Hi Duncs,

I agree, Its about making a judgement call and adapting to the conditions.

My gauge was saying 8psi over big red. I was thinking I shouldnt go that low but the tyres werent bagging like I thought they would at slightly higher pressures so I lowered them till they did.

Kindly was lent a gauge by another group which read 14psi. My gauge was out by a conciderable margin.

I would have been driving around 20psi if I hadnt have lowered them.

Cheers Wilko
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Follow Up By: Member - Duncs - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:43

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:43
Shaker

That's true but the application of that science is where the art lies.

Trevor,

I got my first 4wd bogged before I got it home from the car yard, I just had to try it on the Boat Harbour sand. As I dug it out I thought there has to be something I am missing. Fortunately it did not take long before someone explained the value of correct tyre pressures. That was 20 years ago.

When we did the Simpson I was towing a Trak Shak and I had virtually no problems. I did have an issue at Big Red even with the tyre pressures low. The draw bar was grounding in the sand on the kick up the lip at the top of the dune. I have since sorted that out and reckon I could do it easily now. Must go and see one day.

The other secret to soft sand, and this will generate some comment, is to go as slow as you can without stopping. Gentle throttle openings will keep you going where a full throttle will just dig a hole. I will not claim that I never spun a wheel but I didn't do it often and never more than a turn at a time.

I will claim to have never spun a wheel on Fraser last October by applying the same principle.

Duncs
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Follow Up By: Ray - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 17:26

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 17:26
Good on ya Wayne
At least you can spell tyre
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 18:00

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 18:00
ryte Ray
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Reply By: RobertHL (SEQ) - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:45

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:45
G'day Wayne,this is a bit of a mine field as to what is the right pressures & gauge as the gauges all tell lies in my investigation.I use the one only to set & check my pressure,i will pump them up with the gauge on the end of the hose then check with the pocket one.

Now the set tyre pressure for different lanscpes for me is a different ball game from what most others on here may well use,as i runin my tyres when fully loaded 75psi the max on the tyre is 80psi so 5psi below should be ok if the pressure builds up due to road conditions (black top) mainly,but what i should run them for sand,mud is the Q.

When i got the truck 4 & half yrs ago went to Moreton Is. to too loaded then i had 60psi & went down to about 40 or 50psi cant remember for sure but still had a little trouble (one big) hole (u missed this 1 Trevor R) got a lit stuck & managed to get out ok though.So iguess a little trial & error for me to get used to what works & what don't.

Trip up to the cape earlier this yr i did not even let them down & not even a problem (no sand work) on the beaches though.

Cheers,


Bob.
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 18:18

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 18:18
I know now and won't forget in a hurry hehehhehe.
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Reply By: Member - Wim (Qld) - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:00

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:00
Wayne (NSW)

This continues to be an interesting subject although I ma by no means an expert.

For some time now I have been running tyre pressure monitors which also gives me tyre temp. Or more to the point, air temp in the casing.
These are internaly mounted on the rims. Its interesting to see the change in tyre pressure as the speed changes and the sun moves from one side of the vehicle to the other.

regards
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Follow Up By: Wilk0 - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:31

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:31
Hi Wayne,

What temp diff's do you experience as the sun goes from one side of the car to the other?

Cheers Wilko
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Follow Up By: Member - Wim (Qld) - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:50

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:50
Wilk0.

Depending on the ambient temp and the amount of sunsine, 2 to 3 PSI.

regards Wim.
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Reply By: the nugget - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 15:02

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 15:02
Hi Wayne,
Tyre guages are a bit of a pain and very hard to test your personal one against the garage ones as they get knocked around and most are not accurate.
Even if your guage is out by a couple of pound I think as long as your tyres are uniform in pressure then you should get even tyre wear and the pressure is within what you think you should be on.

As for driving on sand the only way you can get your tyres to the "right" pressure, albeit your guage maybe out is something called flotation.
Flotation is where you can drive on sand and your fourby coming to a rolling stop without using brakes.

In WA our beaches vary from one beach to another. you can drive on 20lb on some and down south, the beaches around Peaceful Bay I maybe down to 12-15lb as the sand seems to be bottomless and then you have to be careful how you turn so as not to roll tyres off the rims.
When I drive onto a beach I drop my tyres down to about 25, hop into the fourby and put it into gear drive off and then take my foot off the accelerator and if it stops suddenly without braking then I let another few pounds out until I can take my foot off and the fourby comes to a rolling stop.

I did the stock route on 22 pound according to my tyre pressure guage.
I drive a patrol and on bitumen I run on 40 (according to my guage) and gravel with corrugations on 30.
Remember you must always check tyre pressures when they are cold as when hot with heat build up you could be 4-6lb higher according to the specialists.
Nugget
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Follow Up By: Jethro T - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 15:14

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 15:14
Hi guys,

Interested in the pressures you run on sand, I have always let my tyres down to 25 on Fraser Island in my 80 series and don't worry about 4wd, however I used to let them down to 18 when I had a hilux and a navara.

Should I also let the tyres down on the 80 series to avoid damage to the tyres etc.

It's just so easy to drive after the hilux and navara.

Regards
Geoff
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 16:08

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 16:08
Geoff,

You have let the tyres down but have not engaged 4WD, WHY???


Wayne
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Follow Up By: Jethro T - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 20:05

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 20:05
Hi Wayne,

Probably goes back to the days when we used to travel in 2WD to save wear and tear on the front end then go into 4WD when we needed it. Now I find that the AWD 80 doesn't need 4WD days with the tyres at 25.

I don't go too far off the beach, so would probably need it at some stage.

Regards
Geoff
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Reply By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 15:18

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 15:18
I understand why etc. letting tyre pressures up/down. But what about the trailer? I have a 2005 Kimberley Kamper and (at this stage) have never had it off road (sob sob). What do others let their trailer tyre pressures down to?

Malcolm

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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 15:27

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 15:27
Malcolm,

I don't have a trailer but I would have the trailer tyres the same pressure as the front tyres of the towing vehicle.

I have always run the front tyre 5psi lower than the rear.

Just another thing with towing a trailer on sand is I would also disengage the brakes on the trailer.

Wayne
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 18:18

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 18:18
Malcolm, I can't comment about sand and trailers as my van has not been on the sand but on the dirt outback roads I go down to 32psi while the car goes down to 28psi.

Someone told me to be careful dropping trailer tyre pressures too much and driving up the hard packed beach as it will sway like buggery. This makes sense with a full size van but not sure if the same applies to c/trailers as they have a much lower centre of gravity although they can still be seriously heavy so maybe it still applies????

Wayne, why disengage the brakes on the trailer in the sand? I actually ramp up the aggressiveness of the trailer brakes when on the dirt to make the trailer brake the setup down as oppossed the jacknife potential when the vehicle skids under braking.

Cheers, Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 18:30

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 18:30
Trevor,

Backing a trailer down a dune that has override brakes will apply the brakes. The trailer will not roll down a dune and the brakes will be applied as the trailer is pushed back.

Electric brakes are not as bad but again a light application of the brakes will cause the trailer brakes to lock up.

Wayne
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 08:12

Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 08:12
Thanks Wayne, that makes sense and is useful info for anyone towing in sand.

Regards, Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Member - Robert G (WA) - Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:39

Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:39
Hi Malcom,
I have a shared Kimberly Kamper and have been lucky enough to get it off road now and then (but never enough). In soft sand we run the trailer tyres at 10-15psi, on gravel we run em at 25psi, on highway I run em at 35-40psi depending on load.
Cheers
Rob
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Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:02

Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:02
Thank you Trevor, Wayne and Rob.

Appreciate your answers.

Malcolm

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Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 16:12

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 16:12
I have 2 of those little stick type that differ by 4 PSI
I take the average and also do a check against service station's gauges from time to time. As long as they always remain 4 PSI apart - I then know where they read - relative to the average of a large number of other guages.
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Reply By: Off-track - Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 20:12

Wednesday, Nov 11, 2009 at 20:12
Easy - dont bother 'airing down' unless in sand. All the rest is un-necessary in my experience unless climbing lots of steep rocky tracks, which is rare for me.
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Reply By: Member - Bucky - Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 03:38

Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 03:38
Guy's
Try this thread

This is what we found, on our recent trip

ThreadID: 71971
Posted: 2 Sep 09 12:59

Cheers
Bucky
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Reply By: Member - DOZER- Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 08:14

Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 at 08:14
Wheelers
I once took a shorty to Fraser and chose some nice new 32/11r/15 bridgestones thinking they are wide and will float better.....wrong......all the busses up there have widened splitties so they can run larger diameter fairley narrow tubed tyres at lower pressures without the tyre parting from the bead of the rim. Doing it this way minimises how much sand the motor has to push each tyre through, (narrower x4) larger diameter increases the footprint length (front to back of tyre) at a given pressure over a smaller diameter tyre, and the larger circumference of the tyre means the leading edge rolls over the sand better without causing a wave of sand to build up infront of each tyre.
By the end of the trip, i had aired my 11r tyres down to 11 psi. next time i went, i took 255x85x16 or 33x10r and drove everywhere on 18 psi
Andrew
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