3-way fridge running through inverter

Hi Everyone

I was just wondering if anyone has tried running a 3-way fridge through an inverter whilst in their vehicle. I know their 12V performance is pretty lousy to say the least and I was wondering whether this might be a way to improve that.

Cheers
Brian
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Reply By: DIO - Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 15:53

Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 15:53
If you intend to run the inverter whilst travelling, bear in mind that you will have LIVE 240 volts trabvelling around and in the event of an accident it could prove fatal to both occupants and rescuers. Something to consider.
AnswerID: 391918

Reply By: howesy - Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 16:07

Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 16:07
My fridge Works like a charm on 12 volts even when in the falcon ute under the fibreglass hardcover where its probably 45-55 degrees in summer. last summer went to car races at Goulburn and it sat in the blazing sun all day under that cover and every time I went to get a drink it was ice cold.

I'd be buying a new fridge.
AnswerID: 391922

Follow Up By: Member - Teege (NSW) - Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 16:29

Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 16:29
Howesy
Is yours a 3-way? Different system if its not.

teege
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Follow Up By: howesy - Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 17:42

Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 17:42
Sorry should have been more clear, Ive never had the 3 way but if thats how dismal they are on 12 volt maybe you should look at a way and run on 12 volts. I can run mine all night and the batteries still havent separated by morning. The day I had it in the falcon ute (one battery) it was on 8.5hrs and when the car started you wouldnt have known so I guess from a personal point I would just trade fridges but if its impractical at times to have the fridge tied to a vehicle then I guess you have no choice. Cheers.
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Reply By: Member - sdr00y (Beecroft,NSW) - Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 18:07

Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 18:07
Have you tried installing a small fan to help the heat dissipate from the back of the fridge? This will improve the coolness of the fridge but increase the amount of electricity you use from the battery slightly. If you are using it while the engine is running it wont matter with the slight increase in electricity used. The biggest problem with the 12 volt cycle is getting rid of the heat from the back... and that it is the least efficient of the 3 cycles.
SD

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AnswerID: 391935

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 21:54

Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 21:54
Hi
Just some info on what will give BEST results if instaling fan/s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

for best operation the condenser[finned section ] needs to be cooled as much as possible] the key to this is correct baffling.
This means pushing or pulling as much COOL air as possible through the fins & have it all readily exit @ the top.
Cooling the heater section is not desirable[ after all your paying to heat it up]
Look @your set up & keeping the above in mind baffle so all the cool air flows through the condenser.
This may possibly best be achieved by putting a horizontal baffle from the bottom of the condenser fins right back to the side wall vents The baffle should meet the vert baffle described below
Place a fire resistant full length vertical baffle between the boiler & the rest of the rear components ,& again just contacting the rear vents, making sure that the burner has some lower vent For combustion & a top area for hot burnt gas exit[ this should not be forced by fans ] only natural circulation.
Place the fans in the TOP section of the vents in the condenser baffled section.[Exhausting hot air]
Fit as much extra insulation as you can around & on top of fridge or alternatively blank of any gaps around fridge body to minimize trapped hot air.
A thermostat Jaycar part #ST3821@ approx$5 can be placed about 1/3rd of the way along the top of condenser fins from the boiler to only switch on fans when really needed if battery power is of concern.

A good look @ your set up with the above in mind should set you up on the right path.
Remember the key is get as much cool air through the condenser fins as possible [avoid any means of the fan air bypassing the condenser], do not cool the boiler section, baffle so the radiated heat from the boiler does not get into the condenser section.
Hope this helps, If not come back

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Reply By: Eric Experience - Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 21:48

Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 21:48
Brian,
Does your fridge have a separate heater for 240v? Most use a transformer to bring the 240 back to 12 to run the 12 volt heater so using an inverter would make the consumption much worse. Eric
AnswerID: 391950

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 22:05

Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 22:05
Hi Eric

Not sure what type 3way [ 240vac 12vdc gas??] fridge you are referring.
BUT as far as I am aware if 12v ,it has a 12v element & there would be no point in having the losses of a 240v >12v transformer, if 240v is available.


Brian
The use of the inverter is only an expensive & inefficient way of trying to overcoming inadequate wiring size from fridge to battery.
You should first check you have Min 6b&s cable both pos & neg from main battery to fridge.
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Saturday, Nov 21, 2009 at 17:29

Saturday, Nov 21, 2009 at 17:29
G'day Brian, I have used an inverter to run on 240v & it works fine, but the safety
thing was a concern. I have now run big wiring, as suggested above , & 12v performance is as good as 240v. The wiring is at least 1 cm thick, run as live &
earth direct from battery, Fridge is 25 year old Finch.......oldbaz.
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FollowupID: 659997

Follow Up By: BriBri - Monday, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:15

Monday, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:15
My fridge has separate 12V and 240V elements so it sounds like checking the wiring is where I need to start.

Thanks for the info
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FollowupID: 660231

Reply By: goldiedingdangdo - Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 22:50

Friday, Nov 20, 2009 at 22:50
Here goes lets look at how they work in common trailer / vehicle situations.

3 way fridges are notorious for poor performance on 12V (FACT)

A 12v element is in a dometic fridge is running continuously at about 11Amps if you have the carrying volume in the cable from the vehicle (covered here on numerous posts)

The thermostat is bypassed on 12V. (Fact)
The common scenario is either it freezes the lettuce in the fridge cabinet or holds frozen goods in the freezer but won't hold fridge temps down.
By the way the opening / closing issue of the fridge (with the cold falling out {upright fridges}) tends to occur less whilst you are driving.
As you are driving air circulation is present in some form, sometimes perhaps excessive and this could be an issue not yet fully investigated. i.e. adding fans are not generally the issue in this situation. Perhaps a lack of heat to maintain gaseous circulation when travelling may answer some poor performance issues.

Levelling sensitivity is also not as much of an issue when driving as a vehicle is moving constantly and not going to cause circulation blocks etc to amonia gasses/liquids as may happen when stationary.
Of course when the vehicle stops good battery management systems fitted to vehicles will also shut down the fridge. This thereby also creates cool down in the circulation system.
It appears that the common efficiency of these fridges is somewhat exposed to the elements.

I have dealt with these fridges for over 13 years and have seen and heard it all. I don't profess to have the answers but posed several scenarios that reduce efficiency.

In discussion with several clients we have utilised the TOPIC system of this thread, running the fridge through an inverter on 240V whilst travelling.
Whilst I would professionally stay at arms reach of recommending it the results have been generally positive.
The actual current draw is slightly less via an inverter but really unmeasurable because now the fridge can cycle off the thermostat as would a compressor fridge.
Temperature control is restored.
Starting and stopping is less of an issue because of continuity of supply current but also presents the one observed downside to this system (the human factor)
As the battery onboard (most) campers / vehicles should be protected by a relay / circuit breaker, any short on 240V cycle would be protected by the cut out on the 12V circuit.
As mentioned the downside that has been encountered is forgetting to changeover power source to Gas / 240V when settled in camp.

Open to observations of this system and its potential downfall.
Spell checker not working.

Ian
AnswerID: 391956

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Saturday, Nov 21, 2009 at 11:28

Saturday, Nov 21, 2009 at 11:28
Hi Ian
"3 way fridges are notorious for poor performance on 12V (FACT)"

FACT???Yes , in most cases due to poor installation, low voltage due to undersized cables for run length , poor ventilation , manufactures installation instructions not followed for baffling etc.

"A 12v element is in a dometic fridge is running continuously at about 11Amps if you have the carrying volume in the cable from the vehicle (covered here on numerous posts)

Again not 100% correct depends on model !

"The thermostat is bypassed on 12V. (Fact"

Again not 100& correct on model & a WIDELY HELD MYTH. [Check for model or wiring diagram]


"Perhaps a lack of heat to maintain gaseous circulation when travelling may answer some poor performance issues. "

A good reason for correct baffling.!!

"The actual current draw is slightly less via an inverter but really unmeasurable "

An inverter brings in it's own inefficiencies MUST use more power for same wattage element

Also the only reason a fridge may perform better on 240v[provided it does recieve 12v@ it's terminals when operating on 12v] is IF the element is a higher wattage[which is true in some models]

Safety issues ,
240v from an inverter is just as potentially deadly as mains 240v.
TREAT WITH CARE .
Where would you recommend placing the inverter ??
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FollowupID: 659960

Follow Up By: goldiedingdangdo - Saturday, Nov 21, 2009 at 21:50

Saturday, Nov 21, 2009 at 21:50
Hi Oldtrack.
I wasn't trying to play smarta#s. nor was I professing to be an expert, but certain observations I had made (maybe not 100% correct) were not far off the mark as I was generalising and maybe seeking positive feedback from others observations.
Just participating in a forum I had hoped.

Ian
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FollowupID: 660032

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Saturday, Nov 21, 2009 at 22:10

Saturday, Nov 21, 2009 at 22:10
Hi Ian
Sorry if I appeared to be putting you down,THAT was not my intention.

My intention was simply to enlarge or correct some statements, for the benifit of all .
I agree most of your post was correct or near correct & those that I posted otherwise ,well ,you certainly are not on your own in some of those beliefs.
I hope you keep participating , because you unlike many do not seem to mind being shown when you are not quite correct.
We can ALL learn from others knowledge & experiences
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FollowupID: 660035

Reply By: BriBri - Monday, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:12

Monday, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:12
Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I hadn't thought about the safety issues with running 240V in the vehicle so I think upgrading the wiring and installing a fan sound like the best options and I'll save running it on the inverter for when we've stopped for short periods and gas when we're stopping longer.

AnswerID: 392318

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