Thoughts on maximum lift & tyre size?

It's a bit more complicated than that as a lot of vehicles are only modified up to the height of a stock Landrover, in the future people serious about a bit of offroading will buy a have to buy something such as a Landcruiser, Patrol or Land Rover than comes stock with big tyres. As someone who wheeled in the eighties I know exactly what you mean about the increase of rutted out tracks and these come about mainly due to the proliferation of diff locks, in the old days your didn't go and play in the mud as getting stuck all the time just wasn't worth the trouble.A small number of irresponsible user with locked vehicles have ruined it for everyone by the amount of road damage they cause going out in unsuitable weather.

Mark

I am like you that I have traveled on a variety of roads and tracks over the years with basically standard 4wds. Currently, I have a 50 mm lift and standard size BFG AT tyres. Anything I have tried has not stopped me. I have traveled in similar locations to you.
Around here, I see a number of extreme lifted 4wds with mud tyres. How they have managed to stay upright amazes me. Apparently, the Police are dealing with those that stuff up around the area. I have noticed a few with defect notices on their windscreens.
The extreme crowd are the ones that do cause the issues with tracks. In my area, Far North Coast NSW, several councils have closed beach access due to the destroyed entrances.
The fools drive on and off the beach with full road pressure which helps to dig out the tracks. Recently, I took my off road van onto the beach for a promo' job. Easiest thing I did was let all 6 tyres down to 16 psi and no marks anywhere while another 4wd came on with a camper trailer and full road pressure and had difficulty getting off the beach leaving a very rough track to follow.
My opinion is that there is no need for high lift if you are prepared to drive to the conditions and respect the environment.
There are places to go to destroy vehicles such as Landcruiser Mountain Park. If people want to play there are these appropriate locations.
It is amazing what vested interests, such as magazines and manufacturers, can encourage. An easy way to extract money from the owners.
Cheers
DW

In NSW tyre size is restricted, and has been since November 2003 to +15mm diameter.
To see or read VSI 09 click here

Suspension height is a difficult and subjective subject.

All other states are looking to VSB 14
To see or read VSB 14 click here

VSB 14 supports a 2" or 50mm lift on "Self Certification" . Above 2" that an Engineers certificate is required.

(Note: body lifts in all states require an Engineers Certificate).

NSW in the original VSI 50 wanted Engineers certificates from 0 to 50mm, and no, that is NO lifts higher than 50mm except for certain compliance, E.G. to and from an event.

The NSW law has not gone away and is still being negotiated in the background by 4WD NSW & ACT Inc (The 4WD Association) and AAAA and the MTA.

If you chave not yet filled in the Survey you can still do it its is on the front page of Association web page.

This can be filled out by people from all states, even if you have no lift and standard tyre, please fill it in, the statistics are important.

This gas also been taken up by each state 4WD Association and the ANFWDC (National Association).

Hi All

We appear to be a society that is ruled and controlled by the 1% ers.

15 years ago my range rover had 10R15 tyres,and I had trouble keeping up with the rebels with 33" monster boots and 2 " lifts .

Now our 33's are dwarfed by those big 35's and so on .

I have now got 35's a 4 " lift and dual lockers. Where once I had to rev my machine a bit and use momentum to concur ,I now Lower my pressures bit more ,activate the lockers and crawl up those mountains.I reckon we have all spun our wheels on a gravel track at some point or to get over a rock step. Probably cars equipped with HT and AT to a larger extent then MT's.

So really we are talking about the 1% ers that ruin it all for every one else . Be they on 30" Tyres on a Zook or 35's on a Cruiser .
So the real question is why don't people that should know better, lower there tyre pressures or why don't cars that are ill prepared take the (alternate track)instead of chewing up the harder ones..

Why do people in all different makes and models of cars with different sized tyres and Suspension , drive past a guy that is lowering his tyres to get on to a beach and doing the right thing , because they are the 1%er's ,I hope you drove out past them while they were digging with there thongs and you informed them about the virtues of proper 4wd preparation.

Lives not about going backwards or taking away from ,it's about working out how to go forward.

As long as things are properly engineered and developed then why not progress.

My 2 C worth

Gavan

I think a lot of it is the other way around Mark, as our technology level now means less need to spin wheels.

Track closures and a huge increase in 4wd numbers simply means more cars per track and more wear.

A solution is more tracks, not less.

The main issue with modifications to tyres and suspension on modern vehicles is the problems they will/ can cause to all the electronic controls ,ie ABS , traction control, electronic stability control etc..

Regards

Paul

Can't they just legislate and set a maximum tyre size that is allowed in National Parks and State forests.

Let's say if they set the maximim tyre size at 33" then any vehicle found in a National Park or State Forest with bigger tyres would be fined in the same way you are fined for driving on a closed track.

If people want to fit anything above 33" ,then they need to drive in commercial 4wd parks or in competitions.

I drive a 4 runner and have had to go up to 32" tyres to be able to go out 4wding without having to snatch on rutted sections.

Unfortunatley there is not much we can do abut the mentality of drivers with 35" tyres that insist on traversing the same bog hole 6 or 7 times in either direction on the same outing.

Why don't we just pay a Lic fee that allows us to use the tracks.(like a Fishing Lic)
Money generated goes into Restoring and managing the tracks properly .Even Grading (Hard Med Soft etc).Then fine the 1%ers that are killing it for all.

The NSW (RTA) VSI 50 changes have nothing to do with going off road.

The RTA believe the press, that you buy a 4WD and it can do all those things in the adverts by the manufacturers.

The RTA main concern is safety.

The concerns are quite obvious.

1. Raised vehicle may be less stable in cornering.
2. That the raised height may cause issues in braking (see tyres later).
3. The raised height may cause vision issues.
We have all seen the 10" lift with no sway bars leaning over going around a bend. These are the 4WD's that non 4WD'er's remember. Same as the little old lady who only see's a big bullbar in her rear view mirror.

The second part with raised suspension is.

1. If you hit a pedestrian the person is morel likely to go UNDER the vehicle if it is raised.
2. If you hit another car side on the bull bar may go through the window, missing the side intrusion protection and hitting occupants.
3. If you hit a standard car head on that the raised 4WD may go over the standard vehicles airbag points, or crumple zone. (This has happened where a raised 4WD (about 10") hit a car above the airbag pods, touching first part way along the bonnet. the driver had more serious injuries than expected if the bags had gone off.

Tyre....

The concern with tyres are the 35 or 37" muddies on a 10" lift truck.

The concerns are:
1. That children may get dragged under a vehicle if clothing gets caught on the tyre lugs.
2. Wheels protruding outside the bodywork.
3. That breaking systems are designed for certain sized wheels and tyres and steering and breaking may be affected.

The RTA don't care that you want to go off road.

SUSPENSION. They do not understand that you and I may:

1. Improve your suspension to cater for carrying you camping gear.
2. Improve your suspension for towing purposed.
3. Improve your suspension to prevent suspension fade (shockers) for outback travel.
4. Improve your suspension to stop vehicle roll when cornering

TYRES.

We change tyres for a multiple of reasons.

1. Change from road rated tyres to the stronger Light Truck tyres, this is for safety.
2. Tread pattern, Highway Terrain, All Terrain, Mud Terrain. This is your choice and for what you intend to do.
The reason why tyre sizes change is easy, to change from a road tyre to an LT often means a change of tyre size, this may only be a few mm, but in some cases this can be 12 to 25 mm.

Again the RTA DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS....

That is why the Suspension Survey is so important.4WD Association Suspension Survey

It is important that even if you do not have raised suspension or different sized tyres, that you fill this in.

This is being compiled and shared by all State 4WD Associations to fight the battle.