Power problems - Patrol GU 3.0ltr 2003 ST-L
Submitted: Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 16:34
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Member - Patrick (QLD)
After a recent 90,000 service I collected my Patrol to find that it seriously lacked pulling power in 4 & 5 gear. It would not pull the skim of milk. Even a smaller trailer caused some concern. The vehicle is fitted with a safari D-tronic unit that has worked
well for 6 years without any problems. I have it serviced every 5,000 klms for both oil and filter. About 3 years ago I had a new turbo replaced under warranty but apart from that the Patrol has run faultless.
I have endeavored to get to the bottom of the power problem without success. My mechanic of a number of years cant put his finger on it. He has cleaned and checked the maff sensor which looks ok and all areas that he is able. He does not have any gear to undertake a dyno and cannot recommended anyone else in the area.
My local Nissan dealer is next to useless so I thought that someone on this site may hold some information or recommendation as to my next step. I live on the north side of
Brisbane if that helps in locating a company with the ability to offer assistance.
I would prefer not to get the anti 3 litre mobs feedback or any smart comments on what I should have bought. I have been very happy with the vehicle and will not be changing it for a very long time.
I welcome your informed feedback.
Patrick
Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 16:46
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 16:46
Patrick,
Can't really offer anything except for a place you might be able to take your truck. I had my Patrol over at
Brisbane Turbo and Tuning a couple of years ago. They have a dyno and all the wizbang electronics to diagnose. Their computers picked up that my MAF sensor was faulty and it was causing me to use to much fuel.
Good luck
AnswerID:
394082
Follow Up By: Member - Patrick (QLD) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 16:55
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 16:55
That is the strange thing, my fuel usage has not increased due to the lack of power.
FollowupID:
662303
Reply By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 16:49
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 16:49
There is a wealth of knowledge over at the
Patrol Forum
Quite a few of the fellas there speak very highly of the crew at Northside 4x4 (Caboolture) when it comes to mechanical expertise...
Good luck with it.........
:)
| Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"Member My Profile Send Message |
AnswerID:
394084
Follow Up By: Member - Patrick (QLD) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 17:34
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 17:34
Thanks Ed.C, I have posted my question there and will watch with interest.
FollowupID:
662312
Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 16:59
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 16:59
G/Day Patrick
Have you tested the D-tronic Unit to see if it's faulty?. we recently had a Steinbauer Unit installed in our vehicle, and with the extra power it has now, I would notice the difference if it was playing up and just running to the manufacturers settings, just a thought!.
Cheers
AnswerID:
394086
Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 17:08
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 17:08
I was thinking the same thing. Just disconnect the D-Tronic and see if that is the problem.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Patrick (QLD) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 17:13
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 17:13
Thanks guys. I have spoken with Safari in
Melbourne who tell me that they do not sell the D-tronic anymore and that as it is a sealed unit that there is not way to test it. I will try disconnecting it and see where that takes me.
Dazza the
cook - is your Steinbauer fitted to a 3.0 ltre Patrol like
mine?
FollowupID:
662308
Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 18:29
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 18:29
Try AMMS at Sandgate
They have a 4wheel dyno and charge a lot less Than Northside 4x4
They also fit chips so may have some ideas.
FollowupID:
662316
Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 21:19
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 21:19
Patrick we have a 2008 3ltr, and had the Steinbauer fitted a little while back on the
Gold Coast, it has improved the vehicles performance by about minimum 25%,
they had the vehicle on the Dino and showed reasonable figures, for a $1600 outlay I'm more than happy, they reckon it would be better if we got a bigger Exhaust Pipe, at the moment I don't want to jeopardise the Nissan warranty.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 21:28
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 21:28
Bit late for that mate.
The chip will void the warranty
The exhaust probably wont
Same with Toyota They even look for marks on the plugs to see if they have been removed as in having a Safari chip like I have. If they are there , so long .
Isnt the Steinbauer hard wired in
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 21:40
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 21:40
G/Day Graham
When they installed it I mentioned the warranty, and its a 10 minute job to disconnect and remove, it was installed after the Engine Management System, I had a service done a couple of weeks back and left it on the vehicle, nothing was mentioned I know the service manager fairly
well, and he'd give us the heads up if there was a problem, if the vehicle went in for a warranty problem, I would take it off for the time being.
FollowupID:
662350
Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 22:16
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 22:16
Yep all is fine till the proverbial hits the fan and then he might say
You had a chip in this thats what caused it
Not saying he will but he could.
I asked my dealer about a chip and he said dont tll warranty runs out as we can tell and it will void warranty even if its removed when it comes in for repair.
They Okayed the exhaust as he said that only helps doesnt alter any thing to do with the systems.
After I put the chip in I didnt say anything and the guy who serviced it said hows it going with the chip
You cant see it unless you take the glovebox out.
Cheers
FollowupID:
662359
Follow Up By: Member - Patrick (QLD) - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 15:56
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 15:56
DAZA and Graham H,
When my original turbo went at 45,000 k's it was fitted with the DTronic and the Nissan dealer still covered the replacement and labor under warranty. They were not concerned with the fitting of the after market chip. Maybe they just did not notice it but there was certainly no problems.
FollowupID:
662456
Reply By: Fab72 - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 19:38
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 19:38
Hello ...I'm going to play Devil's advocate and ask some stupid sounding but logical questions.
Is the mechanic of a number of years you mention the same mechanic that carried out the 90,000kms service?
Was the air filter element replaced?
Was the fuel filter replaced?
Was the handbrake adjusted?
Were the wheel bearings regreased?
Is there any (even slight) noticeable power loss in the lower gears?
Was the engine bay steam cleaned/power washed.
What method was used to clean the MAF sensor?
Obviously I'm suggesting, wrong (or cheap after market) air filter element for that type of vehicle, wrong fuel filter (same reasons as the air filter).
Over adjusted hand brake or wheel bearings (which would make sense seeing you've suggested a speed related issue rather than an RPM related issue).
Steam clean could suggest
water in any of the electrical connections especially the Safari D-Tronic connectors which up until now has worked faultlessly.
And finally the MAF sensor... they're a very delicate piece of equipment and any harsh or abrasive cleaning techniques can be harmful. I can't actually understand why it would need cleaning in the first place seeing as though it is down stream from the air filter and
well before any combustion gasses or carbon residue. Even a blast of high pressure compressed air can upset these things.
Let me know... it may help me remotely diagnose your problem. Be as accurate as possible and I MAY be able to help.
AnswerID:
394103
Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 12:47
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 12:47
You are spot on Fab, I would follow this advise and work through the check list
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Patrick (QLD) - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 15:46
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 15:46
Fab72,
Is the mechanic of a number of years you mention the same mechanic that carried out the 90,000kms service? YES AND ALL SINCE 2006 EVERY 5,000 K'S TO BOOK SPECIFICATIONS
Was the air filter element replaced? YES
Was the fuel filter replaced? YES
Was the handbrake adjusted? YES
Were the wheel bearings regreased? NO
Is there any (even slight) noticeable power loss in the lower gears? YES
Was the engine bay steam cleaned/power washed. NO
What method was used to clean the MAF sensor? COTTON BUD WITH INSTRUMENT CLEANER I THINK
REVS ARE GOOD BUT LACKS PULLING POWER IN UPPER GEARS.
ANY THOUGHTS WOULD BE WELCOMED.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: bobsa - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 21:32
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 21:32
Hi Patrick,
It does not take long to disconect the Dtronic and put it back to standard.
I would do this first and see what happens.
"Unichip" dealers can test a dtronic and see what it is calibrated at,you would need to be done on a dyno though.
Dastek in South Africa is the company that manufactures these unit. If you do have a problem you can contact them direct to complain about the non service from safari, they hold the programming for this unit and it is hard to get help.
I tend to be looking at the MAF sensor and all the fuel filters as
well.
good luck with it.
Bob
AnswerID:
394124
Reply By: Member - reggy 2 (VIC) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 21:53
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 21:53
HI Patrick
Two things come to mind .
we were out in desert and our mates patrol lost power after they found that a relay of sort not sure what it is called but it is in the end or on the air intake near the air filter they replaced it BINGO
The other was they put an aftermarket filter in my brothers patrol and he lost power 2 more trys and backed to genuine filter BINGO
I hope this helps
cheers reggy2
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 23:09
Monday, Dec 07, 2009 at 23:09
The "relay of sort" is actually the MAF sensor. This and air cleaners can cause problems.
Malcolm
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - Patrick (QLD) - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 15:51
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 15:51
Thanks all for your replies. There is lots of good advice here so I will try a few and then look a putting the Patrol over a dyno if nothing happens.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: dbish - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 16:17
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 16:17
Hi Patrick . If the MAF sensor is a hot wire type they are delicate & i wouldnt be cleaning it, The engine management system normaly periodicaly does a burn off cycle to remove impurities. You need a mechanic who understands the electronic systems on your patrol & can check sensors when engine is running for faults otherwise every one is just guessing. Cheers Daryl
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Patrick (QLD) - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 16:25
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 16:25
Hi Daryl,
My mechanic is currently trialling the latest in fault finding diagnostic equipment and he tested the sensors to see what faults may have registered. There were none!
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Follow Up By: dbish - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 18:04
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 18:04
Patric I dont know if the pump is simmilar to the ones on Mazda diesels, but they have a liitle basket filterdown inside the fuel inlet banjo fitting on the pump might be worth checking. If there is one inthere you have to use a seal pick to get them out to check. Seen simmilar prob in mazda diesels. Cheers Daryl
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Follow Up By: Rocko Wallaby - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 23:12
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 23:12
Colleague of
mine just had a AMF sensor blow on a GT3 Porsche. Interestingly, big loss of power as described on upper revs range. Disconnected it, and all worked fine, albiet at a huge fuel use increase. Yeah, know we're talking chalk and cheese here, but at $2200 to replace, he heard from Porsche sources to use carb cleaner on the exposed wire to clean off imprities. In his case, didn't work. However, they say it does in 50% of cases. When it does, it's an easy fix.
So, if you find it's completely snuffed, might be worth trying if you have nothing else to lose.
Worse case is it's still stuffed after you try it ;)
Scotty
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Follow Up By: Rocko Wallaby - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 23:14
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 23:14
MAF...stupid fingers ;>
As an aside, he went to order replacement in Australia. $2200. Then best price...$1700. Eded up sourcing from US, direct from Bosch...$200. Scary difference
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Rocko Wallaby - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 23:32
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 23:32
Sorry. Not tring to spam this post, but it's available from Stupercheap Auto for $24.95. Going to get some and try it myself.
Scotty
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: uwanabuyawot - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 05:31
Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 05:31
Hi Patrick , what grade of oil was used in the service, make sure it is the same grade as you have been using. We recently replace oil & filter on a mates late model t/d patrol and the higher viscosity rated oil was was the cause of his problem. The symptoms were lack of power and it felt like the engine was starving for fuel. We replaced the oil with correct grade and after about 2-3 minutes of running it was back to its old self again. Lesson learnt . I hope this helps Bruce
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Follow Up By: Member - Patrick (QLD) - Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:51
Wednesday, Dec 09, 2009 at 15:51
Thanks Bruce for your reply.
The grade of oil has not changed since I got the Patrol new but I will discuss this with mechanic just in case he has and I did not get advised.
Cheers,
Patrick
FollowupID:
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Reply By: GlennD - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 17:50
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 17:50
Hows it going Patrick,
You could have an air leak into the fuel line , either not a good seal on the filter assy or the hose clamps not tight enough.
Had this in my 01 Troll , showed up on the dyno with a clear plastic tube instead of the fuel delivery line to the fuel pump.
It really has to be something simple the Mechanic has done .
Good luck
Glenn.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Leroy - Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 22:21
Tuesday, Dec 08, 2009 at 22:21
Check your vacum lines that go from the vnc actuator back. You may have a split line or the like.
Leroy
AnswerID:
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