GVM minus Tare weight equals ?????

Submitted: Thursday, Dec 24, 2009 at 20:08

ThreadID: 74625 Views:9451 Replies:5 FollowUps:16

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AusSteve

Hi all and seasons greetings to one & all.

I am buying a 1995 Goldstream Storm off road & am trying to work out the ball weight. All I have is Tare weight=990kgs. & GVM = 1220.

I have contacted Goldstream & been told "from memory approx 150kgs."

Really need to know before I travel 6 1/2 hrs to pick it up. My 1999 Land Rover 300Tdi Defender has 150kgs Ball Weight stamped on the the Hayman Reese towbar plate.

Some years ago, when considering buying a heavier pop top I visited the local Hayman Reese distributor & was given a new plate with 250kg Ball Weight on it.

As I didn't get the pop top I didn't put the new plate on. Now I need to know whether or not I need to...because it is a bit of a hassle to get to & disconnect the dual batteries in the Landy. Particularly if it isn't necessary.

Can anyone help me with this??

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Reply By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Thursday, Dec 24, 2009 at 21:16

Thursday, Dec 24, 2009 at 21:16

Hopefully, this should explain it ;-) >>

Site Link
(bottom half of page)

:)

Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

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AnswerID: 396350

Reply By: Horacehighroller - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:08

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:08

G-day Austeve,

Don't worry about collecting the van. You will not have a problem.
For towball weight, the general concensus is that 10% of the TOTAL loaded weight of the van is reasonable in order to provide a van that tows without swaying. In your case 10% of of the specified GVM (1220Kgs) is only 122 kg - well under your 150 limit.

It always puzzles me that there is so much concern about towball weights.

If the total weight of the vehicle and van is within the GCM (Gross Carried Mass) of the tow vehicle and the total weight of the van does not exceed the tugs specified "Maximum Trailer Weight", then everything will be OK, as towball weight is something you can "manage".

In your case, in the unlikely event that the towball weight of the van iis more than 150Kg then all you have to do is move something in the van further towards the back. As the van is new (to you) and may have no loose items inside to be moved, then putting your spare wheel or toolbox towards the back of the van would reduce the towball weight.
Once you get the van home your only concern then is where (and how much) additional goodies are loaded into the van and tow vehicle.

The real issue facing caravanners is that, almost without fail, the caravan manufacturers fail to allow sufficient carrying capacity for all the extras (clothes, water, food, generators, bikes etc etc.)
They also tend to understate the tare weight which gives a false impression as to the amount of weight which can be added to the van without exceeding the GVM. Purchasers then have to upgrade the suspension & axles.

So endeth the lesson!!!

Enjoy your new van.

Peter
HZJ 105 N/a Auto

AnswerID: 396378

Follow Up By: AusSteve - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:46

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:46

Thank you Padre...I mean Graham. Very helpful

FollowupID: 665136

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 20:19

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 20:19

Scuse me

FollowupID: 665142

Follow Up By: AusSteve - Sunday, Dec 27, 2009 at 12:20

Sunday, Dec 27, 2009 at 12:20

My apologies Graham, I have only just realised that I posted a reply to you that was intended for Horacehighroller, who finished his post to me with "So endeth the lesson!!!"
No wonder you were asking Scuse me. Sorry no slight intended.

FollowupID: 665269

Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:36

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:36

Why do you have to remove or disconnect second battery.

Has nothing to do with ball weight and would be handy for running acc off it when you get the van.

AnswerID: 396380

Follow Up By: AusSteve - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:45

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:45

Two batteries are shoe horned under the passenger seat, side by side & wired into the Land Rover's dual battery management system. Plenty of reports I have read suggest, very strongly, that batteries should be dis-connected prior to welding, if I have to weld the 250k.g. ball weight tag to the tow bar.
No intent to remove the batteries, it's just a so & so to get to them to disconnect prior to welding.

FollowupID: 665135

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 20:21

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 20:21

Hope they are AGM if they are under a seat.

Why not drill two small holes and rivet it on.

FollowupID: 665143

Follow Up By: AusSteve - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 20:32

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 20:32

That's always an option but I thought the RTA, or other such body if it is inspected, may say that drilling holes compromises the structural integrity of the tow bar?

FollowupID: 665144

Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:57

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 10:57

Apart from ball weight, I'd be concerned about the payload. If I'm understanding your post correctly, you only have a payload of 230 KG. Add any more than that in gas, water, food, clothes etc and you are overweight. In my view that is a very low payload.

Our payload is about 900 kg ad we often use it all.

But perhaps I've misunderstood your post.

Norm C

AnswerID: 396381

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 15:46

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 15:46

There is a vast difference between his and yours.

Even so its pretty light presuming of course he has his facts right.

The normal weight descriptions for a van are

ATM the loaded weight on all wheels AND the towball

GTM the loaded weight on the wheels only, as when hooked up

Ballweight the difference between the two above, usually, but not always.

The best thing to do is when you get it empty it and weigh it.

Then you will have a starting figure for allowable load

Depending on what previous owners have done it may be nothing like the figure you quoted.

Then the troubles start!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

FollowupID: 665123

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:23

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:23

The industry standard for 'on road' vans seems to be 400 kg payload, which is widely accepted as insufficient, particularly for those who free camp. Only posted my payload (and usage) to highlight how low 230 kg is (if that is correct).

Regardless, van plated weights are notoriously inaccurate. So as others have suggested, a trip to a weigh bridge is always a good start point.

Norm C

FollowupID: 665133

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:33

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:33

Agree thats why I posted as I did cos your Kedron is an exception to the usual load limits.

Something is funny about his as even a small van single axle usually has 300kg.

Maybe got a lot of mods or read the plate incorrectly.

FollowupID: 665134

Follow Up By: AusSteve - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:51

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:51

Have sought clarification on this, the figures I have at the moment are TARE weight 990kgs......is tare the same as ATM? The other figure is GVM 1220kgs.
I think there is some confusion perhaps from the current owner as these figures were taken from insurance papers & not the compliance plate, as I understand it.
I find it very difficult to conceive that a Goldstream Storm would only have a 230k.g. payload

FollowupID: 665137

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:59

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 19:59

Tare is the UNLOADED DRY WEIGHT

GTM is as I posted above

ATM or GVM which is the same but incorrect terminology is the MAX LEGAL LOADED WEIGHT as I posted aove \

I also posted how to figure out the ball weight

To answer your heading Is simply not relevant as you wouldnt get a usable weight by doing that.

You have the wrong perceptions of the weights

FollowupID: 665138

Follow Up By: AusSteve - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 20:17

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 20:17

Thanks again Graham, that is what I thought. I'm sure I have the incorrect information and these helpful replies have confirmed my suspicions in that regard.
I feel confident that all will be good, pick her up 2nd. Jan...

Everyone who has added to this, discussion thanks very much for your assistance.

FollowupID: 665141

Follow Up By: ozjohn0 - Sunday, Dec 27, 2009 at 10:12

Sunday, Dec 27, 2009 at 10:12

Graeme has posted the correct info.
The figure you're most concerned with will be the ATM (Aggregate Trailer Mass)
This figure should be on the trailers compliance plate and is the legal maximum loaded weight. The generally considered correct Ball Weight when loaded is usually around 10% of the ATM.
When loaded however you also cannot exceed the GTM which is the maximum weight applied to the wheels.
Travel safe.
ozjohn.

FollowupID: 665256

Follow Up By: AusSteve - Sunday, Dec 27, 2009 at 12:25

Sunday, Dec 27, 2009 at 12:25

Thanks all I now have the correct figures:- ATM 1350kg; GTM 1210k.g.
Has been an interesting discussion & steep learning curve and I yhnak you all for your valuable input.
We pick the van up next Saturday so we'll see how it all goes in "real life" i.e. no more theories just practicalities....I hope.

FollowupID: 665270

Follow Up By: AusSteve - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2010 at 17:42

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2010 at 17:42

GOT IT HOME
Well we went from Coffs Harbour to Glossodia Saturday 2nd. & picked up the Goldstream Storm camper van. Travelled down @ speed limits 100 & 110kph where allowed, a total of 549 kms.

On the trip down we used 9.21 litres/ 100kms, & on the way back with the camper van, (990k.g. tare mass) we managed 10.82litres/100k.m.s travelling largely at 90 - 95 k.p.h.

The 300 Tdi Defender performed wonderfully, I'm more than happy with the way it all went.

Now all I've got to do is convince the XYL of the need not to feel every storage nook & cranny has to be filled!!!!!

FollowupID: 666630

Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2010 at 18:03

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2010 at 18:03

Thanks for letting us know.

So few do after asking for advice so its a refreshing change.

Mum wont have too much room after you pack the spares for the Landy!!!!!

ROFL just kidding

AnswerID: 397790