Workmanship? What's that?

Submitted: Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 23:21
ThreadID: 74643 Views:5411 Replies:7 FollowUps:5
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At home, over the years, I've built up a pretty good workshop for an "amateur DIY" mechanic. Even have a vehicle hoist, which is the best bit of gear I've ever owned. Do all my own servicing, for the simple reason that when I do it, I know it's done properly. Unlike the many, many screwed up jobs "professional mechanics" seem to think satsfying.

Sure, I'm stereotyping on that. However, not by much. I seem to attract poor workmanship like a candle attracts moths. I get burnt that often too.

However, there are some things I just can't do myself. Rplacing tyres is one of them. Friend has a tyre changing machine, but it doesn't do balances, so I have to rely on the "experts" to do that sort of thing.

So I made the choice to go to Jax Quickfit tyre and auto. Not once, but on 2 occasions.

The first time was a few years ago, when I needed some new tyres on my Hilux. At the time, I had a wheel alignment done, as I normally do when they're new, and reigiously every 10,000km. 8,000km later, the tyres were completely stuffed...shredded from the sides. Initially, I rang the store, and was told it was obviously MY fault, as I must have done something to them. So, knowing exactly what they'd try and say, I went back to them anonymously and in person this time, had the manager inspect the vehicle, and asked what was wrong with the tyres, making out I bought them elsewhere. The store manager made a big song and dance about how the wheel alignment I'd had done elsewhere was clearly garbage, resulting in the tyres prematurely wearing. When then I told him I'd bought them at HIS store, he was dumbfounded, and attempted to backtrack, until realising he'd been caught out, grudgingly and sheepishly admitted his wheel alignment guy was an idiot, and had done this to multitudes of his customers. He then, again begrudgingly, replaced the tyres at no carge.

In hindsight, I should have realised this was a bad omen, and not gone back to one of their stores. That was my mistake.

About 8 months ago, when I bought my new tyres from another Jax store, I obtained a fixed quote over the phone that turned out to be anything but fixed. Once I got the job done, they tried hitting me up for another $20 in "disposal and other fees", PER TYRE...which I refused to pay. I asked for a quote to replace the tyres, and as far as I was concerned, that included all fees associated with it (as I'd always experienced elsewhere)! I had to settle on an extra $40, which was still above the original price I was quoted, or I was told I wasn't getting my car back until he'd put the old tryes back on. Nice one, that. I've now done around 10,000km on them, and they work fine. Least the tyre manufacturer has a clue. Nexen brand...cheapies, but they've actually lasted better than the Coopers I had on previously, at half the cost! For mainly on road use for work, they've been excellent.

However....that's not the end of it.

Today, I needed to remove one of my wheels to access the alternator, which died over the weekend. In doing so, I found that 2 sets of the special washers holding on the central trim plate were missing.

Now, I'd only checked all 4 wheels for missing washers the week before, and had especially ordered 2 complete wheel nut packs (Including one single nut, and the 2 trim wasers) to make sure I had a complete set across the vehicle. Cheap wheel nuts, you might think...so what? Not likely!! Try $38 per set (that's just one wheel nut, and washers), on special order from Holden!! The "professionals" at the store had then tried to fudged the fact by putting 2 large washers on one nut, none on others, and made a total dogs breakfast of the entire job. Clearly, in removing the rims, they lost some of the washers, and rather than tell me, just attempted to hide the result.

This is quality workmanship as supplied by "professionals". Is every Jax store like this? No idea. But I've had 3 strikes at 2 of them, and that's my limit. Never go back there again.

But it's not just Jax. Recently, I took my other vehicle, an old 1993 hilux 4x4 ute with solid axle, to a Bridgestone store for a balance and wheel alignment, as the vehicle was badly pulling to the left when I got it. Paid $70 for the experience, and got it back...badly pulling to the left.

So, up on the hoist it went, to check what they'd done (and what I'd paid for) to "align" the wheels.Well, given the thing has a live axle, and you can really only make one adjustment to the front, and given that the bar had rusted to the point it had siezed solid, taking me an hour with a blow torch and plumbers wrench to free up, it was pretty clear my "alignment" was nothing more than a cash grab for work not performed. So, again, I adjusted the thing myself after freeing it up, and voila...no more pulling to the left, and a straight steering wheel. I grilled the manager on this, who checked and found they hadn't actually done a wheel alignment, as I paid for, because they were "busy". They offered to redo the work but, given I'd taken 1/2 a day off the first time, I wasn't going to waste more money going back again, when I'd fixed the issue myself.

These are just a couple of the experiences I've had, personally. Again, perhaps I'm just an idiot magnet, but I sure do attract them. Perhaps I look gullible. Gullible or not, I always bite back when bitten. Basically, I'm tired of being screwed over by dirtbags.

It's sad, but I have no faith in any mechanic anymore. I'll stick to DIY which, while it may take longer and be much messier, at least I know the work will be done properly and competently first time, and the only time.

Cheers, and happy Xmas
Scotty
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Reply By: Member - Fred B (NT) - Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 23:41

Friday, Dec 25, 2009 at 23:41
Hi Scotty,
unfortunately this sort of thing goes on more often than we think. What happened to honesty and integrity? It went out the window when political correctness, corporal punishment, and teaching reading, writing and arithmetic were removed from our schools. I am sorry to say that some teachers are unable to do them, let alone teach them. I know it's not as simple as that, but you get the general idea.

I am not saying that everything was perfect when I went to school, but at least my teachers, parents, neighbours etc took responsibility for their actions as well as mine; they also made me responsible for my actions, therefore teaching me accountability. I don't see much of that in our society today; it's always someome else's fault.... Yeah right!
regards,
Fred B
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AnswerID: 396419

Reply By: outsider - Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 00:37

Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 00:37
A mate dropped his car off for a service once and his missus picked it up when done, when he arrived home from work she commented that the car seemed noisy, he had a look at it and they had forgotten to put the new oil in after draining the old oil out, we couldn't believe it.
I always seem to find the useless mechanics as well,
Had a navara a few years back, put it into grahams auto centre at redcliffe for some front end work. It also had a slight bearing noise in the gearbox which they said would be about 1000 bucks to fix which seemed fair enough.
After they had done the gearbox which ended up costing almost double, it was stuffed, crunching and grinding into gear..... don't think they even test drove it.
Took it back, got stuffed around and they eventually agreed to repaired it as long as i paid for the new parts other wise they wouldn't touch it.
Picked it up and it still wasn't great but wasn't grinding into gear anymore.
The car drove like a pig and the wheels scrubbed in the guards on turns, Took it to a tyre place to get the wheel alignment checked and it was supposed to be 1mm toe in but was set to 19mm toe out. was bloody dangerous, apparently the torsion bars need to be removed to get the gearbox out and they had just put them back in where ever they landed and left it at that. Even more annoying was the fact that Grahams had charged me for a wheel alignment as part of the front end work.
Had plenty of other disappointing experiences as well so I also now do everything I possibly can myself.
AnswerID: 396421

Reply By: Richard Kovac - Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 03:18

Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 03:18
Scotty

do you really think you can use the last word? because if not it is a good statement.

Do all my own servicing, for the simple reason that when I do it, I know it's done properly.


the latter I can live with..

Regards

Richard
AnswerID: 396422

Reply By: Member - Rob S (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 08:08

Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 08:08
Hey Scotty

Must be slow Christmas day for you to type all that up.
Or got some crappy presents and to much booz.LOL

I would not want to rubbish all mechanics, there are doggy guys in all trades.
As a tradesman my self Fitter/machinist/toolmaker you see a lot rough guys around.
They aren't tradesman but call them selves one basicly trades assistants or the new term technicians,on basic wages. the good guy's are generally out working for them selves.
I do all my own work as you do, bar wheel algingment/ tyre's/ and air conditioning as you need specialized equipment.
I wish i had a hoist though, been thinking about getting one for my work shop.

Panel beaters are the next i just had the tail gate on the 80 series fixed up
few small dents and stone chips from towing a camper $700 repair cash.
Not happy the guy must be blind he matched and blended the paint well,
but left half the dents there.

Rob





I only ever made one mistake
and that's when I thought I was wrong!

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Follow Up By: Rocko Wallaby - Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 09:59

Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 09:59
Buy a hoist...you'll never go back ;)

I bought a Direct Lifts OH8000, which is made by Dover, a huge US hoist company (in their own factory in China, like everything nowadays), and it cost about $2700. The cheap chinese copies aren't much cheaper (ie. a few hundred dollars at most), and with this lift, all parts are available from the Oz dealer, or ex US. Very glad I went with a known product.

Had to do a 200,000km service on the Frontera (Dealer cost $1400+), fitted airbag suspension to a Navara and Frontera, install 3 brake controllers, a service and suspension upgrade on a Camry, all in about 4 months, and it had aready paid for itself.

http://www.directlift.com/OH8000-Two-Post-Lift-P52C8.aspx

Had to put a thicker reinforced slab pads down when I built my shed, but that was easy enough.

Colleague with the wheel changer has a scissor type lift. Fantastic portability! But can't really access drive train. But it wheels out of the way when not in use, which is a real bonus.
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Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 08:56

Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 08:56
Hi All

It seems to happen with all Trades and Professions, there are good and not so good with them all, and then there are the ones that are just down right Crooks, we have had a few mechanical dilemmas over the years, and one that really peed us off was when we had our near new Range Rover serviced and the so called Technician didn't tighten the Sump Plug, the wife picked it up from the Dealership and carried on doing her shopping ect and a couple of hours later returned home, the next day which was a Saturday, I got into it to go out and when I backed it out of the garage I noticed the remaining Engine Oil on the garage floor, I rang the dealership and told them the problem and was told to phone back on the next working day as the workshop was closed, ok, I thought I will just put a bucket under the sump to catch the rest of the oil, and wait till Monday, in the mean time we will use the Work Vehicle, on the Monday I phoned the Workshop Manager and within 30 minutes a Tray Body Tow Truck was picking up our vehicle, they repaired the problem and returned it to our house, 2 days later we received a Cheque in the Mail for the cost of the Service and the Cleanup Bill for the Driveway and Garage Floor, and a written apology.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Fred B (NT) - Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 09:02

Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 09:02
Now that is integrity..... and smart business.
Fred B
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Reply By: olcoolone - Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 09:13

Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 09:13
It's called pride of workmanship, in todays world to many customers are only interested in one thing...getting the job done cheaply.

We pay our guys really good money and give them good conditions to work in but we expect a lot in return like doing the job properly, not cutting corners, using the right tools and Technics and providing our customers with the best service and unbias advice.

We don't pay our guys on commission or bonuses for doing a job quicker either!

We have systems in place to ensure things are done to a high standard and have no problems if something goes wrong, we will fix it straight away no matter where you are located.....even interstate.

We have always done heavy equipment work mostly for fleet customers through on-site service vehicles and about 7 years ago we ventured in to the mum and dad stuff like cars through our workshop due to the poor workmanship and quality of parts we started to see from other repairers.

We get a good flow of mum and dad customers but we loose a fair few because we will not budge on our prices or offer discounts.....we have lost jobs over $5.00.

or

we will estimate 6 hours to do a job properly plus parts (we know it will take that long and what we need replace from past experience) and loose it because someone said it will only take them 3 hours or that part doesn't need replacing....so in the customers eyes we are ripping them off.... but at the end of the day what is the other person doing to cut corners.....so who is really getting ripped off?

So over the years we have started to concentrated more on our heavy fleet customers and less on mum and dads customers mainly due to the fact we can charge more and in return buy better equipment, carry out better staff training and the big on attract better staff who are more focused.....at the end of the day our customers win.

Sure we could continue doing mum and dad cars but we would have to lower our standards and we would not be ably to pay our guys good money......but we could always find someone who hasn't got the skills or pride of workmanship and pay them less to do half the work.

As the old saying goes pay peanuts, expect monkeys.

It's a shame there are people who have no pride in workmanship and passion but there a three people to blame.....first:- the person doing the work....secondly:- the person overseeing that person and thirdly the customer who wants to pay less.



SCOTTY, i feel sorry for you because you went to a reputably company who should know better who have let you down.....this is the type of stuff you would expect from a backyarder.

Well thats my two cents worth.





AnswerID: 396428

Follow Up By: Rocko Wallaby - Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 09:48

Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 09:48
Very true. Personally, I have no problems paying good money for good work. That's not to say I don't look for a good price, as paying too much is stupid, but as a self employed person myself, we pride our business on offering good value, good product, AND good service. we don't compete with the cheap traders, because I won't compromise on quality or service. There's a problem (which there will be from time to time, of course), we fix it. Had very few customers not return even if they've experienced a problem, as they know we back the product we sell. So, when I encounter crappy service, I get irked.

Only reason I went with the Nexen's is that I thought I was selling the vehicle within 2-3 months, and putting good quality tyres on it was a waste. Now, 12 months or so later, I AM selling it, so glad I went cheaper ;)

However, while they were cheap tyres, I have to give them the fact they've worn brilliantly, are really quiet on road, and handle the black stuff (as well as the occasional off road) surprisingly well, wet or dry. Went to Fraser in Easter, and had not the slightest issue with traction in the sand. Had some "consumer rated" Coopers on it before, and didn't even reach 50,000K, at twice the cost. Prior to this, I was a Coopers man, through and through. Had them on my Landie, and regularly got 80,000K+ out of them. Seems for the Frontera the rating is for "passenger vehicle" or such, rather than LT, and they just don't seem to last as well.

Would I go the Nexen's on my new truck? I'd honestly think about it, depending how and where I drive it.
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Follow Up By: GQueue - Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 09:58

Saturday, Dec 26, 2009 at 09:58
100% spot on olcoolone IMO.....

Not directing this at any previous posters in this thread either!

Its the old 'price of everything, value of nothing' - pretty much sums up the modern day consumer - however its not helped by some of the cowboys out there.

olcoolone, you sound exactly like the workshop I go to. They cop a lot of stick for high prices, but the customer service and quality of workmanship I receive is second to none. You'll find plenty of internet threads from non-customers in regard to their prices, but you won't find a single negative thread from an actual customer.

Take my last service. Returned from a trip in need of a minor service and repair of an electrical fault. Did the ring around of auto sparkies, 'mate, booked out for two weeks, we charge $150 to diagnose then cost of repair, so about $200...'. Decided to get the rig serviced and worry about the electrical probs another time. Being pushed for time, they managed to squeeze us in at very short notice - with no mention of the electrical problem. On pickup, found they had done a few bits of preventative maintenance as well as the service. They explained all work done, showed us the old oil/parts, I paid the invoice and was on the way out when old mate yelled out 'oh, by the way did ya know you had an electrical problem? We found it and fixed it, didn't charge ya but any dramas come back and see us.'

Granted, some may think it trivial, but to actually notice it, then take the time to fix it and in the process save me not only money but time stuffing around dealing with another tradie - I can't really put a price on that.
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Reply By: ozjohn0 - Monday, Dec 28, 2009 at 14:32

Monday, Dec 28, 2009 at 14:32
Boy! Some of you must have run over a Chinaman at some stage.
I must be blessed as I've only ever had one bad experience with vehicle servicing.
The job was OK, but the price and time taken were over the top.
I'll never go to that Holden dealer in Mt Isa again.
Apart from that experience my local mechanic in Mornington looks after me very well as does the local Tyrepower mob in Hastings.
Even when on the road I've had nothing but good experiences over more than 45 years of driving and towing.
If I wasn't an atheist I'd say "Thank God".
ozjohn.
AnswerID: 396629

Follow Up By: Rocko Wallaby - Monday, Dec 28, 2009 at 14:45

Monday, Dec 28, 2009 at 14:45
Grinz. Tip of the iceberg for my bad experiences. If I had to list them all, I'd be here all day ;)
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