Receiving Broadcast Short Wave Radio on HF

Submitted: Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 08:37
ThreadID: 74760 Views:3690 Replies:8 FollowUps:6
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A question for the radio guys.

Am I missing something?

I can receive ABC, BBC, Radio Australia & VoA to varying degrees at various times as expected on my Codan 9323 HF.

As far as I can see these are broadcast as HF AM but my 9323 is only capable of Upper or Lower sideband reception, not AM.

Does that mean that you can receive AM signals ok on SSB or that my 9323 can receive in AM mode without me knowing it?


TIA
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Reply By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 08:44

Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 08:44
Boo,

Going back to my 27 Meg CB days you could hear AM on SSB but not the other way around. From memory the AM signal is a combination of upper and lower side bands with a carrier wave in the middle. Therefore the SSB would receive the part of the AM signal it could decipher.

On the other hand SSB transmited would be a garbled noise on AM as it was not a full AM signal.

Jim.

AnswerID: 397039

Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:04

Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:04
I reckon that's the closest answer Jim. The only trouble is that I have a Sony ICF 7600 which will receive AM and SSB and when I set it to SSB for broadcast stuff it is not very clear. Kina like it half works.
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Reply By: MEMBER - Darian (SA) - Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 09:42

Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 09:42
The following is 'untech' speak - Like my Barrett 950, your 9323 probably does have those AM stations that you are listening to set as AM mode - the Barrett has 5 modes that can be selected from for each channel in the setup, including AM, LSB and USB. When you are on one of your broadcast radio channels, there will probably be a cryptic symbol on screen somewhere telling you that the channel in question is in AM mode.
AnswerID: 397047

Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:02

Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:02
Darian, that's what I would expect, but it only has USB and LSB.
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Follow Up By: MEMBER - Darian (SA) - Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:52

Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:52
Hmm.... couple of refs I found after a search suggest that the 9323 is more a group more than a single model, and a couple of the models in that group didn't come AM capable (or at least, to be 'user configured' that is..... maybe you have one of those). Anyway, I'm sure as soon as you tap into a proper 'guru' you'll be away - one such Barrett 'sensei' tipped me off at some stage re configs on the 950 - all sorts of configs possible from the front of screen, not really intended ex factory for user interaction.
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Reply By: qubert - Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:26

Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:26
'hf' radio is am band. ssb usb and lsb are just small ' side banded channels' (in am) to encrypt ( to a certain degree) the transmission. your two way should be by default on ssb/am. so i would say that all youre listening channels are ssb naturally.
AnswerID: 397054

Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:48

Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 10:48
Read thread 74673 It will probably tell you all you want to know.








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Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:01

Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:01
Thanks Graham, saw that but it doesn't address my question, just frequencies.
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:50

Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:50
You could join and ask on the Codan Yahoo Group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/codan_outback_radio/messages

Fantastic amount of HF knowledge in that group even with the sad loss of Jim (Footloose) Potts as one of the moderators.

Cheers


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Reply By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:55

Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:55
Provided the carrier frequency on your SSB receiver is spot-on to the transmitted carrier, you will receive an AM signal no problems. It's when the receiver's carrier-reinsertion is off-frequency to the transmitted carrier that you get a whistle over the top of the program. (there is actually a whistle, but its frequency is too low to hear, being the difference between the transmitted carrier freq and the reinserted carrier freq in the receiver).
You should receive AM programs no problem on an SSB transreceiver provided that the exact frequency is programmed in.
Gerry


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Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 13:43

Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 at 13:43
Bingo, that makes sense Gerry. That could explain why my Codan receives ok and not my little Sony too.


Thanks and Happy New Year.
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Reply By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Friday, Jan 01, 2010 at 02:36

Friday, Jan 01, 2010 at 02:36
From the 9323 User Guide:

"You can receive AM transmissions on any AM, USB and LSB setting. For an AM broadcast you may find that switching between USB and LSB improves reception."

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Friday, Jan 01, 2010 at 05:53

Friday, Jan 01, 2010 at 05:53
Thanks Allan
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Reply By: Bob of KAOS - Friday, Jan 01, 2010 at 13:02

Friday, Jan 01, 2010 at 13:02
The AM signal comprises a carrier frequency and upper and lower side bands. The bandwidth of the AM signal is twice the highest modulation frequency. On the broadcast band, the AM channels are 9kHz apart, so you would expect some interference between adjacent stations if they transmitted a 5kHz audio signal.

The SSB signal comprises just the upper or lower sideband (the other sideband and carrier have been suppressed by the transmitter). The SSB receiver has to generate the missing carrier and reinsert it so the signal can be detected. The filters are quite narrow (2.5kHz) so the sound quality is OK for speech but not music.

You can use an SSB receiver to tune into the upper or lower sideband of AM transmissions. Sound quality is poor (because of the 2.5 kHz bandwidth filter), but OK for speech. The real advantage is that if the band is crowded, the overlap between adjacent stations (sometimes 5 kHz apart in the shortwave bands) can be eliminated and otherwise unreadable signals can be understood. The receiver needs a very stable oscillator that can be accurately tuned to the carrier frequency or the carrier signal will 'beat' with the local oscillator and create a whistle.

Tuning AM signals with an SSB radio is called Exalted Carrier Single Sideband (ECSS) reception.
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