Towing with a Patrol

Hi all, I'm new to towing (apart from towing a standard 6x4 box trailer) and have been told NEVER to tow in 5th gear. I've got a manual, 2004 GU 4.2TDi Patrol and will be towing an Ultimate c/trailer weighing in at 1250kg. Apart from keeping the revs at about 2000 and ensuring the engine is not really 'working', is towing in 5th going to have any bad effects on the gearbox or anything else?
Any valid opinios would be welcomed.
Safe travelling
Thanks, Ian
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:36

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:36
This has been discussed endlessly on various forums.

A search will probably give you a weekends reading.

I dont, but tow triple your weight and have an auto.

5th is basically a cruising gear for the vehicle on its own.

It may be Ok for a while but may show up faults in the long term

Other Nissan owners will be of more help.
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Reply By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:40

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:40
iamian
Log on to Ultimate's forum as there are a number of people there that tow Ultimate with a patrol.
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Follow Up By: iamian - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:49

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:49
Thanks Pinko...unfortunately I don't have the Ultimate until April so can't get onto their forum until then.....but I certainly will. Thanks for the tip.
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Reply By: Madfisher - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:50

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 11:50
I feel that you can tow in 5th IF you can get away with small throttle opening,ie tail winds , down hill etc but as soon as I have to put my foot down I change back to 4th.
Cheers Pete
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Follow Up By: iamian - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 15:54

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 15:54
Thanks for the tips....sounds like commonsense to me.
Cheers
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Reply By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 12:06

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 12:06
Ian
If it's any help I had a poverty pack 80 series which I put out pasture at a touch over 500,000kms and most of its life with me was towing something and I believe it still doing just that (horse floats). At highway speeds I always used fifth gear.
I now have a 2007 V8 turbo diesel 70,000kms all towing and tow our Ultimate in fifth gear. Get it into fifth slot set the cruise and forget.
Stan
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 13:37

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 13:37
I agree with Stan, but admit to having had some misgivings in the past.

I have a 2000 Patrol (ex- 4.2TD) that had a heart transplant from brand new (naturally aspirated 6.5 Chev V8 diesel with more torque than the 4.2TD).

Despite the truck having now done 240,000klm and most of that has been towing something (or so I believe..... I have only owned it for the past 60,000klm), it's still going strong. I tow our Ultimate in 5th gear most of the time, but not into a headwind or up moderate to steep hills etc.

One arguement which has some validity for towing in 4th relates to EGTs (exhaust gas temperatures). With the turbo engined rigs, it is important to ensure the EGTs stay within specifications.

When I owned my previous vehicle (also a 2000 GU Patrol with 4.2TD, but not the same rig I now own), I had EGT gauge with sensors both above and below the turbo. I was REALLY surprised by how much the temps would DROP when I changed back from 5th to 4th gear under load. It seemed to defy logic....... you're pressing along up a moderate hill in 5th gear, revs and speed are starting to drop and EGT is going up and up. You drop her back to 4th, revs build up, speed starts to hold steady or even increase AND the EGTs would start to drop. This alone is a good enough reason to use 4th gear when towing in "adverse" conditions.

As for the gear box strength, they aren't designed to be heavily loaded in 5th gear as it is a small cog that sits off to the side of the main shaft. But, under moderate and constant loading, it should be quite okay.

The Patrol gear boxes circa 2000/1 did have a defective main shaft, which hadn't been machined for the correct spline length. This resulted in many gearboxes carking 5th gear, but it was rectified by 2002.

Cheers and I'll look forward to seeing you on the Ultimate forum in due course.... We've owned our Ultimate (number 56) since February 1999.... I'm sure you'll be pleased with your decision.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: iamian - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 15:51

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 15:51
Thanks Roachie...looks like an EGT guage may be the go before I do too much towing over to the Kimberely area in June.

Cheers
Ian
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Follow Up By: Member - Ingo57 (NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2010 at 09:41

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2010 at 09:41
Just wondering why is Exhaust gas temps so Important on turbos??
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2010 at 10:57

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2010 at 10:57
Because if you turn them off straight after running hard and hot they spin

down while still at a high temperature and as the oil is no longer circulating it

can boil and fry the bearings at the same time.

Cylinder and manifold temps can get up towards 700d C at at times.

An EGT is a very good thing to have IMHO

The probe in mine is in the dump pipe and has been up to 510deg coming up

a long hill so I back off and let it cool a bit as the difference in after turbo and

pre turbo is about 200deg.

I believe pistons melt at about 800deg.
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Reply By: Peter McG (Member, Melbourne) - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 14:21

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 14:21
Hi Ian

I'm just chipping in to back up what Stand and Bill have said.

We to our Ultimate (no 10) with a 2006 Patrol 4.2. I've had the EGT gauge fitted and a 3" exhaust and turbo tune. It tows the Ultimate easily in 5th at highway speeds. Change back to 4th when revs drop below about 1,800.

I agree with Bill's comments on watching the temperatures. I had to drop back to 4th and ease off when coming into Broome last August when the outside temp was approaching 40 degrees.

I look forward to catching you on the Ultimate forum.

Cheers

Peter
AnswerID: 397584

Follow Up By: iamian - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 15:49

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 15:49
Thanks Peter, we're looking forward to finally getting our Ultimate at Easter and then we're heading off to NW Australia in June from Brisbane for 7 weeks. I've had the Patrol turbo tuned and fitted a 3" exhaust...made quite a difference!. I'll take it back to put it on the dyno before we travel to Moruya to get the trailer. Are you happy with your Ultimate? Any issues I should look out for??
Cheers
Ian
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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 18:23

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 18:23
I have been towing a Trak Shak, max weight about 1100kg, for the past 13 years. It started behind a GQ4.2 with after market turbo and for the past 7 years it has been behind a 2001 GU4.2TD.

I have always used 5th gear. I have never had a problem with any gearbox.

There was a limited production run of GU's that had a 5th gear problem. These can easily be identified from the VIN number by your local Nissan dealer. However as that problem was identified and rectified in mid 2001 I don't think you have anything to worry about.

When approaching hills I change down to 4th at about 110km/h on flat country I change down at about 90km/h. That keeps the revs at around 2000 to 2500 and the car is happy.

Duncs
AnswerID: 397616

Follow Up By: iamian - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 19:21

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 19:21
Thanks Duncs. After the small mods done to the 4.2, according to the dyno readout, the torque is pretty flat between 1900 & 2700rpm so I try and keep it around the 2000-2200 mark and its quite happy and gives me some in reserve.
Cheers
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Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 19:35

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 19:35
Well blow me down it seems I must be the only one in the whole world to have had problems with gearboxes due solely (in my opinion) to towing in 5th gear. Both my 2000 and 2001 4.2T Patrols have had their gearboxes rebuilt due to the faulty mainshaft that someone else commented on (2000 model at my expense and the 2001 model partly at Nissan's expense and the rest my uncle's expense when he owned it before me).... but I also had a 99 Cruiser that had 2 gearbox rebuilds that were put down (in the end) to towing in 5th....Thank goodness for warranty in this vehicle.

Sadly my experience tells me to stay out of 5th when towing anything. I would seriously be talking to any of your local gearbox repairers and I am certain you will get a good understanding of why this is the case. 5th gear is just not designed to be loaded up. You will save sweet stuff all in the fuel economy stakes and still do the legal speed limit if you stay in 4th with the confidence that if you keep the vehicle long term you will save yourself any chance of an expensive gearbox rebuild.

Happy cruising.
Trevor.

PS: there is plenty of supporting evidence to back both sides of the argument but in the end it is your money and if you want to take the chance that is also your perogative.
AnswerID: 397634

Follow Up By: iamian - Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 21:37

Monday, Jan 04, 2010 at 21:37
I'm with you....I've just checked my bank balance and can't afford a gearbox rebuild, so I'll err on the side of caution and stay out of 5th unless going down hill with a tail wind.
Ian
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Follow Up By: Gone Bush (WA) - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2010 at 11:22

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2010 at 11:22
As mentioned above, there are heaps of Posts on this subject.

When I had my manual Cruiser (a TDV8 Trayback) I also had a Scangauge in it.

I tested this theory time and time again to my absolute satisfaction:

Towing in 4th gear is:
more economical than towing in 5th (at the same speed, 90kph)
kinder on the engine and gearbox
more responsive to accelerator changes.

This was with a 2500kg caravan on the back.

cheers

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