GMH Gen 111 oil usage

Submitted: Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 10:53
ThreadID: 7495 Views:1954 Replies:11 FollowUps:8
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My Statesman with Gen 111 engine is using about 1.5lt of oil in 2500 km. Any other reports of this problem? The car has done 50,000km.
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 11:05

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 11:05
its common, Holden are rebuilding the crappy donks under warranty from what I hear on aus.cars

Cheezy has been throught 3 donks so far.
AnswerID: 32290

Reply By: Member - Russell - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:11

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:11
I've heard a lot of reports quoting similar figures - a dog of an engine if you ask me, and Holden is trying to keep it as quiet as possible. I know of one engine shop that is rebuilding 20-30 engines a month. If they're done right (like anything) they seem to be OK. Good luck....Russell S
Prado RV6
AnswerID: 32297

Reply By: Member - Bradley- Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:28

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 12:28
Mate, here is the go - Get straight down to the dealer and report the problem and get them to draw up an oil consumption monitoring sheet ( they will know exactly what you mean as this is a massive problem identified internally at holden). Then after they have confirmed excessive consumption go and talk to the dealer principal about getting a replacement vehicle while yours is fixed. Also contact holden customer assist and log the problem and advise them of the dealer in charge. They will organise to rebuild your engine, usually using a new block and pistons only but get them to throw in new bearings etc.. Most dealer workshops are already geared up to do at least 2-3 engines per month. I have seen engines come in for their first service at 1500km and you can already hear the piston slap.
If you get servicing done at the same dealer where you purchased the car you will get a better run. Let them know in a nice way that you have this problem and you know all about it and you should be alright. Also if they are going to make you wait a while organise to drop in every week to get then to top up the oil for you free of charge as you shouldn't have to foot the bill for this. Cheers and good luck, BradLife is short- but there's always time for a yarda.
AnswerID: 32299

Follow Up By: Peter L - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 13:01

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 13:01
G-day Bradley, you sound as though you have direct experience and therefor my question is; - what exactly is the problem?

My interest is because my brother in law had problems with his but they only replaced pistons & rings AFAIK, and now the motor is becoming noisey again. (Don't know the Ks he has done but it's not alot)

Peter L
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FollowupID: 23071

Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 13:58

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 13:58
Hi Peter, the problem stems from a few areas, Firstly the material of the bores and rings can cause problems with the rings bedding in , if the rings don't bed properly then you get accentuated wear which can make any bore 'out of round' or piston sizing problems worse. The first sign of trouble is a light piston slapping sound which only gets worse along with the oil consumption problems. I was told that during the trouble shooting of this in the early days holden decided to build a new engine exactly to tolerence to do durability tests on, apparently they went through 3 new blocks and 8 sets of new pistons to acheive a motor with the correct tolerances. The new pistons they are fitting have small squares of a bonded moly style substance on the sides of the skirts (similar to the jet-hot style friction coatings) But i would see this as a temporary band aid fix only (just my guess for any layers out there!!) .

If i was having a gen3 fixed i would push for a new block pistons rings and bearings at least.
The saving grace of the engine is that if you take real care to bed the rings in properly using a mineral oil for the first 10k then you shouldn't have too many problems. One car i worked on(ss) was used by a car nut as a tow rig for his show car and as such was often under high load low rev style driving, this helped his rings bed in really well and his ss ran as sweet as a button even with 70k on it. No problems!!

It is a very recognised service & warranty issue so every dealer in the country has no excuse to claim ignorance.

Disclamer ; the views expressed above are the views of the author only and represent the general information presented to him while in the employ of gmh.Life is short- but there's always time for a yarda.
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FollowupID: 23077

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 15:25

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 15:25
>> It is a very recognised service & warranty issue so every dealer in the country has no excuse to claim ignorance.

Has no excuse should be changed to should have....
Sounds like missan with G'box problems? ;) Problems? No sir there are none...
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Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 16:20

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 16:20
Yeah Truckster, lets not light the wick on that one !!

Seriously the only problem is that the service manager doesn't make any money off warranty jobs and they often lose out because they have to fork out up front for any parts that they need and try to justify the claim later. That is why you are pushing it uphill to get them to substitute parts for fault finding. 1 because they have to pay for the parts & 2 the spares dept don't like to carry many spares because it affects their bottom line figures on paper.. It sure is a shiza situation.. :-) Brad Life is short- but there's always time for a yarda.
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FollowupID: 23090

Reply By: GLAYVA MAN(bendigo) - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 13:23

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 13:23
gday beetle.
one ofmy customers was telling me the other day that hes getting his motor done by holden there now putting a brand new one in this time last time was just rings or something.he was telling me something about the rings being to soft for aussie fuel or something and wearing out therfore getting piston slap.i dont know if this is the reason but its what he told me jamieson wild cat
AnswerID: 32306

Reply By: Member - Wherethehellawi - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 16:32

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 16:32
How many of these are out there and the dealer wont recognise problem?
Why hasnt a recall been made?
what happens if you buy a 2nd hand one out of warranty...will they recognise the manufacturing fault?
etc etc etc
Just because it makes it out of warranty it doesnt mean it didnt/does'nt have a manufacturers fault.
IMO having to run a engine in is a direct result of poor manufacturing ( but this keeps costs down I suspect).....never heard of a refrigeration compressor having to be run in!!!! and I'm talking 6,8,12 and 16 clyinder 3.5 inch bore by 4.5 inch stroke and bigger!! okay they dont do in excess of 3000 rpm but they are generally under full load at start up and most of the day ...ie 8-10+ hours on a scorcher

So many questions and too few answers I suspect.
Just have to remember not to buy one!!
AnswerID: 32325

Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 16:40

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 16:40
Don't forget nearly every vehicle is built to the lowest possible price and the fastest methods !! Oh yeah One manufacturer i wont name will do anything possible to avoid a recall , they call it a service improvement program !!! anything to avoid those ads in the paper.....Life is short- but there's always time for a yarda.
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FollowupID: 23092

Reply By: Simon - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 17:08

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 17:08
I bought a new SS in feb 2001, it drank oil from day 1, all my dealer would say is its my fault and they are having no problems with any other cars.

I rang Holden and they denied any problems and told me to get it checked by dealer.

Dealer began oil consumptoin chart but managed to misplace it.

So along with other issues I had with the car I just sold it (feb2003) lost heaps but at least I wont loose any more!

My dream car I saved all my life for was a lemon. Thanks a lot Mr Holden.

After that dishonesty from both dealer and maker I will NEVER buy another Holden!! (Ive always owned one untill now)

(It might only be a car every two years but it makes me feel better)
AnswerID: 32332

Reply By: ross - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 19:09

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 19:09
An aquaintence of mine had this problem of piston slap and got a brand new motor.This motor has been around in this form since it was 1st introduced in the US in the 84 model covette and in the US they are not having this problem.This is because the motors are being transported to Mexico to be disassembled and modified to suit Australian octane levels.Its not just the pistons that are having the problems it is also the crank bearings at the front of motor.
AnswerID: 32342

Follow Up By: Savvas - Thursday, Oct 02, 2003 at 20:38

Thursday, Oct 02, 2003 at 20:38
They are in fact having this problem in the US. However, they don't consider it a problem.

It seems to be acceptable to have fuel consumption and piston slap in the corvette as it is considered a "feature" of a low-friction sports car engine. For example, any M-series BMW, has this very problem as well however it isn't publicised.

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FollowupID: 23331

Follow Up By: Savvas - Thursday, Oct 02, 2003 at 20:39

Thursday, Oct 02, 2003 at 20:39
Sorry...should have been oil consumption and not fuel consumption above.
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FollowupID: 23332

Reply By: David - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 20:45

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 20:45
Dear Bettle42

This problem is not just in Australia

GM worldwide apparantly have some real problems with a number of engines including the GEN III

Holden has stated that an oil consumption of 1 litre/1000km is acceptable!!!!!

I recently bought a new car and a Munro CV8 was actually my initial choice followed then by a Clubsport R8 and / or SS.

However, the problems with the GEN III frightened me right off and I went for Ford XR6 Turbo. I am copping plenty of flak as I previously was a "Holden Man".

Have a look at the web site below.

http://www.pistonslap.com/

How does you motor sound - very clattery I suspect. I saw and heard a VY Senator on Saturday and it sounded terrible and yet the ownner was driving away with smiles - if only he knew!

Holden will replace motors but this is not the solution. Demand yours to be rebuilt and blueprinted thus ensuring that everything "fits right"

Good Luck

Rgds

David
AnswerID: 32351

Follow Up By: Member - Wherethehellawi - Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 at 08:09

Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 at 08:09
1 litre per 1000 kilometres is acceptable????!!!!
geezus my 100 series should be just about out of oil........shiet the red light must be broken!!

It costs big bikkies to prove them wrong so its best just to get rid of it and put it down to experience.Wow! am I cute
If yer ain't fishing, Yer ain't livin
Richard
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FollowupID: 23124

Reply By: Alan H - Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 at 12:38

Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 at 12:38
My son worked for a GMH Dealership some years ago and he reckoned that the general thoughts about these probs. were that they stemmed from the use of very low viscosity oil. This apparently gave better fuel consumption due to lower friction, but as a consequence wear increased dramatically.
As the largest proportion of these vehicles (and all other new vehicles) are sold to fleet and company buyers, manufacturers don't care as they're replaced after 2years/40000 klms anyway, and probs. mostly arise later when the vehicle may be out of warranty.
In the US apparently, 1ltr/1000klms is not considered anything to worry about, which is probably typical of the seemingly wasteful way they approach any thing to do with fuel consumption with the tanks they design as cars.
And the attitude of some dealers is really bad ....... "You've paid the invoice, don't bother us" sums it up.
AnswerID: 32395

Reply By: Dennis (Brisbane) - Friday, Oct 03, 2003 at 17:48

Friday, Oct 03, 2003 at 17:48
Everyone I know with a Gen III (about a dozen) is having the same problem

6 litre, 268 Kw, Gen IV will be out next year, apparently without this problem
AnswerID: 32715

Reply By: beetle42 - Tuesday, Oct 07, 2003 at 15:21

Tuesday, Oct 07, 2003 at 15:21
We are leaving shortly for our annual "get away from the wet and cyclone" trip down south. Will cover about 10,000km . Our dealer has given me an oil consumption chart that I will have gm dealers fill in as we travel. The new car warranty will still be current when we return. We should have ample evidence of excessive oil usage by then.
AnswerID: 33004

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