Road toll a bit High!!, Why?.

Submitted: Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:07
ThreadID: 75018 Views:4183 Replies:29 FollowUps:46
This Thread has been Archived
What , Who, is to blame for this never ending carnage on the roads?

Or is it just a average thing for the amount of vehicles out there?

There has and always will be road accidents unfortunately.

Excessive speed and poor judgement is one main contributor, i feel,

but theres also a host of other things that can cause a accident,

Dunno what the answer is?


Cheers Axle.
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Stu-k - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:31

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:31
Speed is the only factor the government told me so, we need more speed cameras
AnswerID: 398391

Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:34

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:34
G/Day Axle

I don't know either, but I'm sure Speed, Booze, Fatigue, and possibly Defective Vehicles contribute to the Carnage, let alone the Mindset of some drivers, we all have been guilty of having a heavy foot on the Go Pedal at one stage of our lives, but fortunately we have been able to know when to ease up, but a lot of drivers have a Death Wish.

Cheers
AnswerID: 398393

Reply By: obee1212 - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:35

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:35
the manufacturers make the cars more technological and complex but its going to take another million years to improve on the human condition. Meantime some bird that died from heatstroke gets more attention from the media than any number of deaths on the road in the same period.

A reality show that tracks the trauma of victims and their families might help but would it make money for anyone? Bit like asking for a similar show tracking the victims of smoking through the health system and to the grave. Sorry but the big bucks wont stand for it. Big bucks and little politicians.

owen
AnswerID: 398394

Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:36

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:36
Its just a sad state of affairs and it does not seem to get any better as time goes on.

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

AnswerID: 398395

Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:28

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:28
But we had a record LOW road toll in Vic this year!
0
FollowupID: 667312

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 00:32

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 00:32
One dead on our roads is one to many for me :-(



VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 667320

Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 08:04

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 08:04
Agree. The numbers equal our worst disasters. Cyclone Tracey, Black Saturday.... but people killed and injured on the roads don't quite get the same response. No big fund raising appeals, no royal commissions, no emergency response programs..
0
FollowupID: 667342

Reply By: rumpig - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:39

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:39
here in Qld i blame a distinct lack of visual police presence.
Xmas day i drove from one side of brisbane to the other just after lunch time and didn't see a single police car or bike about. the next day i drove 200 klms up to gympie and still hadn't seen a police car about.
lastnight at 6.30 p.m i drove from Brisbane to Gympie again, and then back to Brisbane again at lunchtime today. on both those trips all i saw was 2 speed cameras (one on way up and other on the way back) located on the highway on the outskirts of Brisbane (roughly Morayfield area).
IMHO i should be seeing alot more police then that on the road, especially on those days and times mentioned around xmas.
AnswerID: 398398

Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:56

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 21:56
I agree, very little Visual Deterrence, on the M1 but they reckon they have several Unmarked Cars, as soon as you drive over the Tweed Border in NSW, you see plenty of Highway Patrol cars and Cameras.
0
FollowupID: 667280

Follow Up By: Member - extfilm (NSW) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:11

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:11
During the week I saw 10 road patrol cars and 10 motor bikes in the space of 30 kms in the space of 30 mins in a roadworks area nth of sydney.........
My problem is it is trucks that contribute to some of the probs but have UHF to tell each other where the next trap is.
0
FollowupID: 667287

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:17

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:17
I drove from Traralgon to Melbourne ( 2 hours ) on christmas morning in heavy traffic and saw no police. returned 2 days later 1 speed camera no patrol cars :-(

I am amazed at haw few police there are on the roads down here after queensland.
0
FollowupID: 667290

Follow Up By: Off-track - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:19

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:19
Nothing stopping any vehicle driver using a UHF. Truckies are just more proactive about it because driving is their source of income.
0
FollowupID: 667292

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:27

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:27
I thought it was an offense to use any device or method to warn others of police activity.
0
FollowupID: 667294

Follow Up By: Member - extfilm (NSW) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:40

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:40
I was breathalised on the Cahill expressway overlooking the Harbour bridge and the opera house on Boxing day. I made mention to the guy who made me blow in the bag what a great view he had.

He was not impressed by telling me he was not happy being there on Xmas day too
0
FollowupID: 667299

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:48

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:48
Yep christmas cheer is in short supply when you have to work all through the holiday season.

I did not see my son at Christmas once while he was a cop

he was always on shift Christmas day.
0
FollowupID: 667302

Follow Up By: Off-track - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:58

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:58
Warning/Advising others on police activity over the UHF - Very difficult to catch or prove. Besides, commercial radio stations advise where speed cameras are as part of their usual programming.
0
FollowupID: 667307

Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 18:16

Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 18:16
I drove around Canberra for nearly a whole year before I saw one patrol car. Even then he was driving around with his headlights off even though if was just after midnight.
0
FollowupID: 667829

Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:02

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:02
One thing that gets me is they always play up the ones that include a truck and write it up as if it was the trucks fault.

How is a wide load, Legally travelling, at fault when a ute coming the other way runs into the load.


I would like to see some figures that show out of all the crashes that trucks are involved in just how many are shown to be at fault.

Then maybe the guy who passed on double white lines coming towards me at MT Compass today would probably either not notice a truck or choose to ignore it.

He then gave me the fingers when I had the audacity to flash my lights at him because he didnt really have room.

Cheers
AnswerID: 398400

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:12

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:12
Agree Mate!,....And then the other day a car drives headlong into a truck.

So whats on the news?, ........"Move more freight by rail, to many truck accidents.".....


Axle.
0
FollowupID: 667288

Follow Up By: Member - extfilm (NSW) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:30

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:30
So why is it that I have been nicknamed road block by a truckie I know? I sit on the speed limit and have done for the past 20 years. Hence last speeding fine was 20 years ago. I have a UHF in my ute and cannot stand having the thing on because of the dribble. Although last time I had it on I sat on the speed limit through some roadworks that we have a contract on (80 k/h) and I had a truck sit about 5 metres behind the whole way. When I turned off he had the audacity to call me dog feaces because I was abiding by the law.

My biggest problem with that is that one of our workers whom had left our employment was killed by a truck in excactly the same area at a reasonable time of the day.

The ramifications were.
1. The roadworks (30 odd kms) came to a halt
2. Even though he had left our employment the paperwork we had to fill out was endless.

Having said that I average between 60 and 80 000 kms a year.

I am all for getting the majority of trucks off the road for the biggest reason that it is more econimicle to send freight by rail. I do agree that trucks are needed to service towns but a train between major cities is the way to go.

Peter

0
FollowupID: 667295

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:47

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:47
G/Day Peter, Yep i know What your on about!,.....But how long would it take to establish a efficient rail system to move the quanity of freight thats moved daily in all states? Dont think the NSW state government would be a Great help at the moment!!!....Lol.


Cheers Axle.
0
FollowupID: 667301

Follow Up By: Off-track - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:03

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:03
If it was more economical to send freight by rail more companies would use the service. They dont because it isnt, even after government subsidies.
0
FollowupID: 667308

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 00:05

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 00:05
Off-track
Your nick says it all.

Rail takes too long, customers want it overnight, Rail might go from A to B and sometimes C but never to D,E,F,G, and so on , ... maybe because those places are ....umm Off track.

.
still going strong with 836,179 K's

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 667315

Follow Up By: Off-track - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 00:24

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 00:24
Hah!

I seem to recall when the Alice to Darwin rail was mooted transport operators feared it would be the end of their business. However once it was completed and government subsidies wore off road freight haulage is still in abundance and Freightlink almost went bust. And that's on a relatively simple north/south corridor.

I'm sure you are better versed in this though Doug.

0
FollowupID: 667318

Reply By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:08

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:08
Alcohol is still the largest single cause of road fatalities yet the Governments still appear to hammer the issue of speed (I wonder why ?). In Australia approx 35% of all road fatalities are alcohol related but it varies from year to year and from state to state – in the NT it was a few years ago 71%.

50 years ago you could legally drive an FJ Holden with drum brakes, poor suspension and handling, no airbags etc etc at 60mph (97 Kph) on our highways. Today with all the latest technology (ABS, EBFD, BA, ESC, Traction control,airbags etc etc) the maximum speed limit in most states (not sure about NT) is 110 kph. And yet speed is hammered as the big killer? There is not doubt that excessive speed can be dangerous but in Qld you can get booked now for doing 103kph in a 100 kph zone. How many police resources could be put to better use than sitting behind speed cameras on good quality highways and booking a modern safe motorcar doing a few Ks over the limit?

Here is another “never talked about” issue. There have been two road accidents in recent weeks (one in Qld and one in NSW) that resulted in a total of 6 fatalities that were both front wheel drive cars. In both cases the drivers lost control of their vehiclesand drifted into on coming trucks with disastrous consequences. The point is while FWD cars are excellent in normal operating condition (even better cornering traction than RWD cars) in normal conditions, they are very difficult to recover if a driver loses control. How many drivers are taught how to recover a car that’s out of control – especially a FWD one - its not done at any driving school as far as I know.

The other big “sleeper” in road accidents is illicit drug use. States are now only starting to test for random drug use. Some believe that up to 15% of road fatalities could be drug related.

Thus the solution to lowering the road toll is complex and will not occur by just focusing on 1 issue – we need better and safer roads, better driver training for adverse conditions, crack down on drink driving (perhaps zero tolerance), random drug testing and some form of excessive speed monitoring as starters.

Cheers


AnswerID: 398401

Reply By: Off-track - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:13

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:13
With governments undoubtedly using speed as an excuse to raise revenue I would love to see new cars fitted with GPS that have electronic control over the car's speed through the ECU. Essentially a built in speed limiter that will limit the car's speed to the posted limit of the section of road that you are on. Of course this should be manually overideable for safety reasons (as ironic as that sounds!)

Then you can just plant your foot down and the car will stay on the posted limit without the distraction of looking down at the speedo and just about everyone will be doing the same speed as you, reducing the need to overtake.

Now that would reduce the road toll but it would be interesting to see what State Governments think of the idea...
AnswerID: 398403

Follow Up By: Member - John - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 04:42

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 04:42
You have got to be joking, you are, aren't you................taking the mickey?

The posted speed limit is not always a safe speed, drive to the conditions.

Stop dumbing down drivers. Training, training, training and more training is the answer. Some one suggested zero tolerance for alcohol, why, it will only make it unreasonable for those that currently abide by the law and stay under the limit, zero tolerance will not stop the idiots that drink, take drugs and have no regard for others, they will still do it and kill people........
John

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 667338

Follow Up By: Off-track - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:37

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:37
No joke - think about it a bit more.
0
FollowupID: 667353

Follow Up By: Off-track - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:42

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:42
...Speed Limiting I said. You would still be able to drive anywhere under the posted limit but the ECU will prevent you from driving over the limit. Similar to Speed Limiters in heavy vehicles but more intuitive for individual road speed limits.
0
FollowupID: 667355

Reply By: D200Dug- Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:14

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:14
Fatal five

Speed
Fatigue
Alcohol / substance abuse
No seatbelts
Distractions

And I would add Tailgating

Sadly if everyone obeyed the road rules all the time we could cut the road toll massively

Travel at or under the speed limit

take a rest if you are tired

and leave a minimum gap of 2 seconds between you and the car ahead

There should be no one here who would think of driving drunk or without seatbelts done up correctly.


If a disease or some other cause was killing and mutilating so many people every year there would be panic in the streets because it is "Just car accidents" we seem to become very complacent about the dangers.
AnswerID: 398405

Follow Up By: Off-track - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:55

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:55
Road fatalities are WAAAAY down on the list of killers in Aust. The big C is the primary one.

I think we have reached the lowest rate of road fatalities we are ever likely to see. It is certainly MUCH lower than in decades gone by and that's with a higher population and many many more people on the roads nowadays. Actually lower now than in the 1950's!!

Road stats

More

Interesting

I'm surprised that it isnt higher than what it is; driving a motor vehicle is probably the most dangerous activity that everyone does on a day to day basis and to operate a vehicle at up to and over 200kph closing speed with 1-3metres seperation with oncoming vehicles on undulating and winding roads when a miniscule movement of the wheel will send you into a head-on is much more technical an operation than I expect from a sizeable portion of our society.
0
FollowupID: 667305

Follow Up By: D200Dug- Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:06

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:06
Our perception of danger is interesting I saw a research thing where they asked volunteers to walk across a narrow unguarded steel plank suspended 60 ft above the ground.

No one would do it for fear of falling off. Natural enough ! :-)

They then asked the same volunteers to cross a busy road they happily stood on a narrow strip in the middle of the road ( the same width as the steel beam they were asked to cross ) while traffic sped past inches from them.

The injuries would have been similar for a 60' fall as being hit by one of the cars, the space they were on was the same width and the same risk of falling off into danger yet they / we perceive hight as a risk but we do not perceive traffic with the same risk factors.

We become complacent about things we do every day.
0
FollowupID: 667309

Follow Up By: Member - Neville & Sally C (VI - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 14:44

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 14:44
Yes, we'd add tailgating too. When we're approached by a truck we give them every chance to pass us by pulling over if we can, when they sit back from us. Gees, the ones who tailgate leave no room for error. Sometimes, we're driving to road conditions and are in older cars. Do they expect us to all own new cars. My advise to them is that if they're earning enough money to be able to think that way, then get another job with no rediculous time schedules. Take care. Safe travels. Bye Sally.
0
FollowupID: 667436

Reply By: Willem - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:14

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:14
Hi Axle

Been here in Oz 41 years. When I came population was 10 million. Now population is 22 million...statistics!

I can't say that it won't happen to me but as a rule of thumb I would say that people are just careless.

I concentrate in what I am doing when driving the big roads!!!


Cheers
AnswerID: 398406

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:27

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:27
" Concentrating on what your doing, is about the best anyone can do mate!.




Axle.
0
FollowupID: 667293

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:35

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:35
Yes I agree and the ones that get up my nose are the talkers who have to

turn and look at who they are talking to all the time.

Even if that person is in the back seat sometimes.

It may not seem long that they look away from the road but accidents happen in the blink of an eye.

If you cant talk without turning your head Shut up and do what you are supposed to do when driving

WATCH THE ROAD.

A few years ago there was a horrendous crash in NZ when a whole family were killed because the driver looked around at the kids in the back

He was still looking when they went under the middle bogies of a B double.

Poor bloody driver, he was devastated as he could see them coming and not looking and he couldnt do a thing.


0
FollowupID: 667298

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 00:08

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 00:08
Graham
YES.....YES..... I'll 2nd that ,

.
still going strong with 836,179 K's

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 667316

Reply By: pop2jocem - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:40

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 22:40
Axle,

I don't pretend to have all or maybe any of the answers to what others have stated is a very complex issue but if I remember the numbers correctly and at my advancing years that is getting harder to do, something like 97% of fatal or serious injury road accidents are directly attributable to driver error and 3% to vehicular failure. Drivers under the influence of alcohol or drugs seem to be a major contributor to the road toll. Inattention or lack of ability to handle anything other than the most mundane road circumstances encountered probably run a close second. The car manufacturers can put the very latest primary and secondary safety features in vehicles and we will still find ways to kill ourselves on the roads. Unfortunately no car maker, government agency or law enforcement body can find a way to fix the most commonly failing part of a car, namely the nut behind the steering wheel.

Cheers Pop
AnswerID: 398412

Reply By: Member - T N (Qld) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:24

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:24
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Foul Language Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
AnswerID: 398416

Reply By: Wherehegon - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:41

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:41
On boxing day we went upto Caves Beach NSW. I was in a 90 zone and slowly passing another vehicle (dual lanes) and I was doing 90 obviously other vehicle travelling slightly slower. Out of the blue a VP commodore flying up behind me then decides to sit on my rear and I mean sit on it, I increased my speed by about 5 k to get passed then move back over to the left. While slowing getting past this VP commodore starts flashing it lights then pulling to the right of me trying to see past me, this is when I spotted the p plate. I got over and let this clown go past me, I heard him kick it back as he went passed so was doing over the 100 k mark (all on wet roads might I say). I pulled up along side him at the lights, winding my window down (wife screaming at me to shut it) I give this clown a mouth full and told him hes going to kill himself and his 2 mates with him. He gave me the finger told me to f--- off then lit the tyres up and took off, managed to smoke them and the roads were wet. Shook my head flashed the driving light at him and that was that. Unfortunately unless he wakes upto himself he will be another statistic and his 2 mates and whoever he hits as well.. Raise the age limit I say, 17 these days seems to be too young..Regards steve
AnswerID: 398419

Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:57

Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 23:57
The quicker you can get to B from A the less likely you'll have fatigue set in,
I had to laugh when I seen the sign in Qld ..."Every K over is a Killer", what a load of BS , So I guess if you have an accident at 100Kph you wont get killed but will get killed at 101 Kph , Now I see they idiots are getting more camera's and they want zero tolerance, meaning if your doing 61 Kph in a 60 zone your pinged. if thats not revenue raising crap then I don't know what is, BLIGH'S BLIGHT.

I like my little town, No cameras, no peak hour, no traffic lights, sometimes a little roadside breatho or radar, I can handle that,


.
still going strong with 836,179 K's

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 398423

Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:03

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:03
So why has the Victroian road toll dropped from over 1000 killed in the 1970s when there were far fewer vehicles on the road, to around 300 now?


0
FollowupID: 667359

Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:12

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:12
Shaker
WHY..... because all the accident prone victorian drivers have moved to Kweensland.....you know.... the place where Capt' Bligh rules.

.
still going strong with 836,179 K's

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 667361

Follow Up By: Off-track - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:56

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:56
If you look at those links I pasted Shaker you will see that road fatalities have dropped in every state from a peak in the early 70's.

Victorian pollies are just trying to skew the data to show how well their zero tolerance speeding is 'working'.
0
FollowupID: 667375

Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:35

Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 10:35
And QLD is using those stats to justify its position!

Kind regards
0
FollowupID: 667771

Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 18:33

Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 18:33
I'd heard that the Vic toll increased when they introduced the zero-tolerance (perhaps because more people were watching their speedos instead of the road?)
0
FollowupID: 667832

Reply By: cycadcenter - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 01:39

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 01:39
Statistically Australia has one of the LOWEST fatality rates in the world, about half what it is in the USA.

In the USA the Blood Alcohol % ranges from .08 to .10 depending on the states, there is NO random checks, Kids can get an unrestricted license at 16.

On the freeways you won't get a ticket until you go at least 10 MPH over the limit. Speed cameras are vertually non existent, Some states don't even have helmet laws for motor cycles

The statistic I would like to see is the number of accidents say per million km travelled back in say the FJ era of the 60's and compare it to the accident rate now. I think you would see that the accidents now are far more survivable
with the increase in technology.

In motorsport a prime example is the introduction of the Hanns Device to restrain the driver's helmet, it has increased the chance of survivability significantly since 2002.

AnswerID: 398432

Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:31

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:31
Yes but in the US you have to be very careful who you upset on the road because they all have a Smith and Wesson in the glove compartment.
0
FollowupID: 667351

Follow Up By: cycadcenter - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:40

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:40
Funny you should mention that,

we're currently at our weekender in Arizona which is a "carry" state and we stopped at a small restaurant for lunch and there was a big notice on the door.

"PLEASE LEAVE YOUR GUNS IN YOUR TRUCK"

Bruce
0
FollowupID: 667354

Reply By: RV Powerstream P/L - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 06:58

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 06:58
On our news NBN last night it stated the police were out trying to save lives and to some extent this is true.

In this last week being in a tourist area we have been inundated with two wheeled and four wheeled police vehicles.

My granddaughter coming home from work had an oncoming car with lights on high beam and she could not see so she flicked her lights to advise and the lights dipped but the car brakled and turned behind her it was a patrol car and he booked her for flicking her lights on high beam at him.

My son driving a truck and dog in a line of traffic heading out of town where the 50K had been extended around a corner still in a line of traffic was singled out and booked for being over the speed limit.

Im pleased in these two incidents that those Police involved saved my son and granddaughters lives and werent just revenue raising.

Ian
AnswerID: 398438

Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 14:37

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 14:37
If I was your grand daughter Id be taking that one to court, Im sure had your grand daughter had her high beam on they would have done the same thing, quick flash "turn em down they would have been saying"......Unfortunately for your son he wouldnt win even though everyone else around him was obviously doing the same speed which if your son was over it they were to. I drove from Penrith to Caves Beach (past the central coast NSW) about 2 and 1/2 hour run, did not see one cop,radar, cop car, nothing. If they were present maybe the clown P plater (as in other post) would not have been sitting on my clacker doing over the speed limit on wet roads with 3 mates in the car with him............Regards steve
0
FollowupID: 667435

Reply By: raafy - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 07:49

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 07:49
I live in Cairns & whenever there is an accident on the Kuranda Range or the Port Douglas road the road is called dangerous. If it is the road, how can 2,000 cars & trucks travel the same road without a problem then when an accident happens the road is at fault. If people drive to the road conditions there are no bad roads only bad drivers.
AnswerID: 398440

Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 18:38

Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 18:38
Yes, I've always wondered that too... (King's Hwy to the south coast is our local example) And if it's still so dangerous, why do people still use it? Why is it still open to the public?
0
FollowupID: 667833

Reply By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 07:52

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 07:52
In Victoria, the level is approaching record lows, so it might be appropriate to look carefully at that State's legislation and general driving conditions.
Travel of any sort is by nature hazardous and the faster and bigger the type of travel, the nastier the results will be when things go pear shaped, as they sooner or later will. Like all things, it's a matter of how much legislation and restrictions and how much tax the punter is prepared to put up with.
AnswerID: 398441

Reply By: raafy - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 07:55

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 07:55
As a follow up to my previous post, when my father taught me to drive over 40 years ago he told me to treat the other driver as dangerous & is out to get you so you have to be aware of what the other drivers are doing.
AnswerID: 398442

Reply By: Member - Amy G (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 08:41

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 08:41
I'm with Doug T on the fatigue- slowing the speed limit just makes us be on the roads longer, thus more tired and more likely to crash.

On a recent trip up the Newell I noticed the speed limit had been reduced to 100kph instead of its previous 110 (at least, I am pretty sure it was 110 along there!). This might be ok if you're driving for a couple of hours, but for people who are on the road all day (for example, a 945km trip) it adds more than an hour to an already long journey. Speaking of, the Newell was the nicest bit of road we drove on the whole way- much better than the Oxley and New England highways (did anyone say pothole?)!

My partner tells me that in QLD they are thinking of upping the speed limit again to 110kph for the same reasons.

Of course, accidents are also caused by doozies and we have all seen them- the people who overtake into oncoming traffic, across double lines, tailgate, rubberneck with the person next to them, the list goes on. I imagine the situation would be improved if everyone just chilled out a little bit, but that's a big ask isn't it!
AnswerID: 398447

Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:59

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 09:59
I have never read so much garbage .... the answer is simple.
PLAN YOUR TRIP!

According to your theory. the speed limit should be 160kmh, then no one would get tired????
0
FollowupID: 667357

Follow Up By: Member - Amy G (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:26

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:26
No need to bite heads off mate, it is a valid point- the road is fine to travel at 110, the road used to be 110, the road is no longer 110 and I doubt it makes a scrap of difference when it comes to reducing the road toll.
0
FollowupID: 667367

Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 13:26

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 13:26
I didn't bite off heads, I merely stated how I felt.

Smarter & better informed people than us have decided taht the road is no longer safe to drive at 110kmh.

I should have said that I agree wholeheartedly with the second paragraph of your OP, it does apprear that double white lines mean little or nothing to a lot of drivers, particularly motor bike riders!

The time difference in driving the Newell between 110kmh & 100kmh is 1 hour, as I said before, plan your trip, if the extra hour is going to make you fall asleep at the wheel, plan a stop. Simple!

0
FollowupID: 667414

Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 14:48

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 14:48
Shaker, I have doubts about your comment !!
""Smarter & better informed people than us have decided that the road is no longer safe to drive at 110kmh""

unless you were been sarcastic ??

Not sure where your located but at the start of the M2 here in Sydney the speed limit is 90k ?? Two laned road either way, concrete/wire barriers in between, road smooth as, then you get on parts of the pacific highway, potholes, bends, edging of roads breaking away, trees right next to the roads, no centre barriers and you can do 100k, work that one out.......smarter and better informed people ??? I doubt it........Regards Steve
0
FollowupID: 667437

Follow Up By: Wilk0 - Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:33

Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 at 12:33
Hi Shaker,

I worked at the Driver reviver in Parkes over the xmas hol's. I'd estimate 25% of travellers heading from Melbourne to Brissy aimed to do it in one day.

They were winging that reducing the speed limit would cause more fatigue. I think that they were crazy to try and drive that far in one day, true some can do it but unless your used to long distance driving, It can end in tears and quite often does.

We could make the Newell 90km/h and they would still try to do it in one day andthese were the ones that did pull over.


Cheers Wilko
0
FollowupID: 667587

Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 18:47

Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 18:47
Wherehegone, you may find that some roads (eg. motorways around Sydney) can have speed limits reduced to improve traffic flow - that's the thinking behind the variable speed limits that are becoming more common.

As for "Smarter & better informed people than us have decided that the road is no longer safe to drive at 110km/h" well, I'm also skeptical as to whether some of the employees in our road departments are in fact smarter or better informed. You can see this by all the traffic calming devices that restrict school buses from accessing schools, delivery trucks from accessing shopping centres and ambulances from quickly accessing hospitals...etc.
0
FollowupID: 667834

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:27

Tuesday, Jan 12, 2010 at 12:27
shaker ---- > " According to your theory. the speed limit should be 160kmh, then no one would get tired???? "

Why is it when individuals defend govt posted speed limit changes actions ... they always pull out the old " you are a mad racing car driver " attitude ????

Limiting the speed to 100kph means 101kph is a traffic offence and can make money.

What really concerns me is that a constant 100kph speed is mind deadeningly boring ... and a likely cause of accidents.

Much better to have the freedom and ability to be able to vary the vehicle speed between 80kph & 120kph according to road conditions with out fear of being a target of a revenue officer. Amazingly .... one can still average 100kph for the journey driving in such a manner ... without the boredom and fatigue.

shaker ---- > " Smarter & better informed people than us have decided taht the road is no longer safe to drive at 110kmh. "

Baahaahaahaaa ..... 27 police officers in Coonabarabran for the first week of the new lower speed limit .... Made lots of money for the state coffers booking all those people doing 110kph trying to safely and quickly, get past B-Doubles and other long vehicles - without being stuck out on the oncoming lane for too long.

All those criminal drivers huh ??? .... pffft ..... grannies and tourists going about their business as they have done for years ... turned into criminals by a stroke of a pen .... for revenue.
0
FollowupID: 667941

Reply By: Bob of KAOS - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:00

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:00
I reckon the following are contributory:

Too many cars on the road (Bruce Hwy north of Bne, Kings Hwy east of Canberra).

Vehicles, driven by poorly trained amateurs, travelling in opposite directions with a closing speed of 200 kph plus, and nothing separating them! When they do miss each other it is by less than a meter. Often the road is twisty, uneven, pot holed, slippery. They cross into the other vehicles path and duck back to their own side just in time to avoid collision. If this feat isn't enough, the drivers are often angry, tired or intoxicated.

People driving on highways with little or or no country driving experience (certainly no tuition). Kids released onto roads without ever being taught emergency braking, skidding etc

Roads in poor condition (especially in QLD) with insufficient opportunity to overtake vehicles travelling much slower than a reasonable speed.

People talking, texting or otherwise playing with gadgets instead of focussing on the life and death matter of driving.

Too many trucks on the road, why not use rail? Truck drivers being forced to drive when fatigued in order to make a deadline/quid. (Termeil)

Emotionally unstable, intoxicated, enraged, fatigued drivers who drive like there is no tomorrow. There sometimes isn't.

The Police and RTA losing credibility as agents for safety by blatant revenue raising and in many cases acting like aggressive hoons (examples above plus many I have personally experienced).

Excessive speed? Every time because if the vehicles were going slower the incident wouldn't have happened in the first place, and the damage/injuries would have been less. Does this mean we should limit all vehicles to 0 kph?
AnswerID: 398452

Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 18:53

Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 18:53
Bob, I wholeheartedly agree with most of what you've said there except I question the first two points:
It's fine to say "too many cars on the road" but we're all still willing to drive ourselves and contribute to the number of vehicles using the road. It's a bit much to say "everyone else should get off the road so I can enjoy a quiet drive (at the speed I feel like driving)..."
Second, while I agree that there are many people driving on country roads who seem to be very inexperienced, we must remember that we were all at one stage inexperienced too - afterall, how do you get experience driving on a country road? The only way I know of is to drive on a country road! :-)
0
FollowupID: 667835

Reply By: DIO - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:35

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 10:35
The majority of collisions (NOTE - I deliberately didn't use the word accident) are are as a result driver error.

Inexperience, inattention, speed, fatigue, drugs/alcohol, unroadworthy vehicles are ALL contributing factors. It's NOT the Govt's fault, or the Politicians fault. It all comes down to the D R I V E R .

There is no such thing as 'average for the amount of vehicles out there'. Anyone who drives around thinking that if they are involved in or cause a collision it's O.K. because everyone expects that to happen, should NOT be allowed to continue driving. FULL STOP !!!!

Anyone who drives a vehicle on a road is obliged to comply with ALL road rules at ALL times. If this were the case, many of the deaths and injuries sustained in collisions would be reduced or eliminated.

There are many 'knockers' of Police and any form of authority that may at at some time hold them accountable for 'doiing the wrong thing' (committing an offence whilst driving a vehicle). Speeding is one of the major contributors to collisions. Hundreds of thousands of motorists are detected yearly exceeding the speed limit. There is on-going publicity and discussion regarding the success of Speed Cameras and their cost to the community. If motorists were NOT speeding (a major contributor to collisions resulting in death and/or injuries), then there would no longer be any requirement for Police and authorities to deploy Speed Cameras and/or other devices, used in the detection of the commission of a crime. e.g. speeding, running red lights, entering intersections/junctions against a yellow light, illegal turns within an intersection or junction, etc.


The definition of policing:

The word "Police" means, generally, the arrangements made in all civilised countries to ensure that the inhabitants keep the peace and obey the law. The word also denotes the force of peace officers (or police) employed for this purpose


Crime and Crime Prevention:

The primary object of an efficient police is the prevention of crime: the next that of detection and punishment of offenders if crime is committed. To these ends all the efforts of police must be directed. The protection of life and property, the preservation of public tranquillity, and the absence of crime, will alone prove whether those efforts have been successful and whether the objects for which the police were appointed have been attained.

CRIME:
crime /kra?m/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [krahym]

–noun - an action or an instance of negligence that is deemed injurious to the public welfare or morals or to the interests of the state and that is legally prohibited.


AnswerID: 398457

Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 11:04

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 11:04
Spot on. Drivibg is a dangerous activity with loads of variables likely to result in accidents. Safe speed for one driver/ vehicle is not a safe speed for another driver/vehicle combination. Driving regulations are always a compromise between what we want, what we are prepared to pay in taxes. Try to get any two people to agree on these. Then put yourself in the position of the government and try to make legislation, ot copo it for not having enough police on the roads etc.
It's interesting that most of this discussion has been about blaming government and there has been almost no attempt to say why rates are actually dropping. Dare I say it, could it be speed cameras actually staring to bite and change behaviour? Could it be growing awareness of just how many$ can be saved by driving slower and therefore more drivers are actually going slower? Perhaps all that advertising is getting the message across? Seatbelts sure have helped, but remember the outcry when they vame in and many felt this was an unwarranted government inteference with personal liberty. This is still a vey popular point of view in the USA.
0
FollowupID: 667379

Follow Up By: Willem - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 21:19

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 21:19
Ahhh DIO, you took that one right out of your Officers Handbook :-)


0
FollowupID: 667511

Reply By: Wilk0 - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 11:39

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 11:39
Hi all,

I believe the main contributors to the road toll are

- People acclimatized to driving short drives to and from work, then comes hol's and they try driving 10 hours straight to get to their destination

-I would like to reduce the number of trucks on the road and put most freight onto rail, but it would need to be done slowly so truckies dont suddenly get put off. (and the rail system isn't up to scratch). My Old man is a trucky, done it for 43 years, guys like him would struggle to find other work especially if a lot of them were going for the same jobs.

-I would like to see stricter penalties for 2nd and 3rd offences especially for the bad driving crimes.
I can understand someone making a mistake, Everyone will do it in their lives, But getting caught drink driving, speeding excessively, Driving whilst on drugs, unlicensed, unregistered etc 2 or 3 times is unforgivable.
The person is an oxygen thief and should be banned from driving for life then if it happens again from them in jail for a very long time (20 years/life).
I dont want to share the roads with Imbo's deliberately breaking the law.

I dont think we will ever stop the road toll as we cant stop the human error factor, but the above would go a way to help.

Cheers Wilko
AnswerID: 398472

Reply By: Member - Neville & Sally C (VI - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 14:28

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 14:28
We couldn't agree more Axle. However we believe that reducing the speed limmit would be of some use. It's not going to stop the speedsters, some people think that they are such good drivers that they can handle any situation that throws itself in front of them. The slower the vehicle is travelling gives you more time to react and the vehicle more time to react. I have a perfect exam ple of a person like this, we used to work with him. He always brags about it and his friends justify it by saying that he knows where his wheels are!!! Just stupid, arrogant and selfish. Yes, I know you can drive too slowly but sometimes you have to take road conditions into account. Also,we live in an area enroute to a very popular tourist area. Many whov'e become lost come into us for directions. We have a map handy. Nol trouble, pleased to help. We go down to the city, looking for a number or a businees name, we get the finger & the "F"word ..Flying past driiving with one hand & head swivelled round to look at you! not watching the road. Take care. Safe travels. Bye, Sally.
AnswerID: 398492

Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 15:12

Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 15:12
All of the above theories make sense and go a long way to explaining why the road toll is the way it is.
Thinking back to when I was a teenager, I cringe at the thought of some of the things I did behind the wheel. Generaly, as one matures, one becomes more aware of the consequences of speeding, drink, drugs, fatigue, inattention, vehicle condition and a host of other factors, an important one being anticipation.

Can anyone remember a time when driving an old bomb, driving after a few beers, putting the boot down on a straight all while yawning your head off was the accepted and done thing. You would have been regarded as more of a 'jack the lad' rather than a danger to society.
No matter how progressive governments legislate stiffer laws, rules and penalties, they cant adjust attitudes of people the same way. Sometimes it may take generations for attitudes to change.

Examples can be made say with - Tobacco, Alcohol, Obesity even Race Relations as well as Driving. The facts and figures are out there, laws, rules, guidelines, education, you name it, its all available.
The fact that all those things are still problems in society points to the fact that attitudes are slow to change.
I believe they will change eventualy, but not tomorrow.

In the decades or generations to come, I think the road toll will steadily decrease. Well I hope so.

Cheers......Lionel.
AnswerID: 398495

Reply By: Karen & Geoff - Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 at 13:03

Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 at 13:03
But if I am a "P" plater.........why cant I send text messages while I am doing 130 km's and hour up the highway. I do it all the time and I am a really good driver..................I haven't had a crash yet! My GPS will tell me when to turn off the highway, I programmed it while I was driving along out of Melbourne.


This is what a policeman friend of ours was asked after pulling up a P Plater!

Now if he had of had a head on with a truckie, it would have been the truckies fault for sure.....................................

Get real!

Will they ever learn?

Karen
AnswerID: 398638

Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:03

Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:03
The thing that really intrigues me is that there hardly ever a mention of road conditions as a contributing factor. This I suppose is easily ignored by statements that the overlying speed limit reflets that but I am not sure that this is a totally fair dismissal. I can never understand why there are so many poles or trees so close to a road or why some drains always overflow in times of rain. Or why some roads I drive have the same potholes in the same place after every resurface. Or why we have some blackspots that only seems related to speeding drivers. Pedestrian crossings or none where brdges or tunnels would work a lot better but won't be funded until the umpteenth pedestrian is killed. Sufficiently confusing signage for strangers to be totally confused when approaching an itersection. The list is probably endless.

I think that the whole contributing negligence of these situations is grossly underdone as it is way too easy to blame pilot error!

Having just come back from a European driving holiday I was initially intimidated by the speed limits on major highways and autobahns but soon realised that speeding along without being worried IF you are speeding or spotting the next camera etc was a lot more relaxing. As were some of the common sense road rules like not allowing truck to overtake on inclines and the like made driving so much easier.

Dropping speed limits to accomodate deteriorating road conditions will only see us all walking in due course. Australian freeways and toll roads are up to the same standard as those in Europe but for some reason we need to drive slower not smarter.

Kind regards
AnswerID: 398791

Reply By: Steve63 - Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 13:05

Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 13:05
Only one group that can be blamed. Road users. Yet to see an accident on an unused road. Of the five main causes/contributing factors (Speed, Fatigue, Alcohol / substance abuse, No seatbelts, Distractions) ALL of them are in the road users control (this includes drivers, bike riders, cyclists and pedestrians). So who is a fault? We all are as road users. Why do we need speed traps and random breath tests? Because as a community we are inherently untrustworthy. The governmant is not at fault here, it is the attitudes of the community as a whole that are the problem. This will be an issue until the community as a whole takes responsibility for there own actions.

Steve
AnswerID: 398811

Reply By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 19:24

Monday, Jan 11, 2010 at 19:24
Quite simply, the never ending carnage will be never ending whilever we continue to accept it. If you think of any other invention, if it were killing as many people as our cars, it would banned (or severely restricted) immediately. But with the conveniences that our cars bring us, we just can't bear to make the difficult decisions...

If you are mentally unstable or depressed you wouldn't be able to get a gun licence, but no one will even consider those things before giving you a car licence. What if you were caught using a gun without a licence? Or if you were found using a gun recklessly, it would be confiscated, and what would be the changes of having your gun given back to you? So long as you keep paying the fines, you can have your car back.

The answer is (IMHO):
1. We need to decide that the carnage is no longer acceptable
2. We need to make some tough decisions about who has a proper attitude for driving and who doesn't, and yes, this will take away the 'rights' of some to drive, but it would prevent some from losing the right to live.
3. We need to get tough on deliberate offenders, particularly serial offenders (and no, I don't mean the people who accidentally creep up to 61km/h in a 60km/h zone - I mean the deliberate offenders who have no regard for the law eg. the drink drivers, the unlicenced, those with unroadworthy vehicles, those tearing around the streets late in the nights, etc.) - money seems to be no problem for some people and fining them seems to have little or no effect.
4. We need to change community attitudes to driving - driving a car is NOT like operating a dishwasher or a photocopier and mistakes have serious consequences.
5. Perhaps we even need to target those who have had collisions and take steps to reduce the risk of further incidents (eg. further training, debriefing, etc.)
AnswerID: 398864

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (14)