Are the permits lawfully required?

Submitted: Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 17:50
ThreadID: 75573 Views:7479 Replies:10 FollowUps:29
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G’day All,
I saw this sign recently in an area I would really like to camp in. Are the permits lawfully required? Does the LHPA have jurisdiction?... there was some suggestion that they may not. If so, has anybody applied for the permit and are they easily obtained?
Thanks in advance.
Myles.Image Could Not Be Found
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Reply By: Member - John and Val - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 18:23

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 18:23
Myles'

The LHPA now replaces the old NSW Rural Lands protection Boards. I think it has always been the case that you were supposed to get a permit to camp on travelling stock routes and the linkhere indicates that this is still the case IF in fact this area is a TSR??
Would be interested to see how you go if you go ahead and apply for a permit.

Cheers,

Val
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Follow Up By: Member - Myles F (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:15

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:15
G’day Val,
I will apply. Probably sometime within the next month. I will let you know how the process went.
Myles.
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Reply By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:33

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:33
Myles,

Have a read through the associated Legislation in regards to the Authority of LHPA

I think you will find that they do.

Cheers Kev
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Follow Up By: Member - Myles F (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:20

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:20
G’day Kev,
I visited this site before I posted my query but I had an idea that their authority was challenged when a solicitor was fined for camping without a permit and he won in court.
I think Vince knew something of this. I will MM him.
Regards
Myles.
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Reply By: Member - Teege (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:39

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:39
Myles
From the LHPA website:
"Activities allowed on TSRs
Anyone can use a TSR, without needing a permit, for:

•Walking
•Picnics
•Swimming
•Fishing
•Bird watching
•Horse riding
•Cycling (non-motorised only).
You must obtain a permit from the appropriate managing Livestock Health and Pest Authority for:

•Grazing and/or walking stock
•Apiary sites
•Seed collection
•Accessing water
•Firewood collection
•Overnight camping
•Other recreational activities.
It is illegal to use a TSR to:

•Ride motorbikes
•Dump rubbish, or
•Shoot and/or hunt.
For more information on using a particular TSR contact your local Livestock Health and Pest Authority office."
I don't think much has changed really, only the name of the organisation.


teege
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Follow Up By: Member - Teege (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:44

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:44
Sorry, I should have said also that they have had the authority to require permits for quite a while. They are currently issued under s.100 of the Rural Lands Protection Act 1998. I can't remember what the arlier provision was.

teege
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Reply By: Kim and Damn Dog - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:57

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:57
Gidday

Bloody permits again! it's getting to the stage whereby a bloke won't have any room to pack the gear or the grog!

Regards

Kim
AnswerID: 401517

Follow Up By: Member - DW Lennox Head(NSW) - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 20:07

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 20:07
These permits have been in force far longer than the permits that have to be applied for to travel through some restricted areas elsewhere in Australia.
I remember, as a former member of the PP Board which was prior to the RLPB and now the current system, of issues relating to camping a long time ago.
DW
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Follow Up By: Member - Myles F (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:23

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:23
G’day Kim,
I ditched the tent and bought a trailer to carry the permits.
Myles.
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Follow Up By: Honky - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:38

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:38
I was in a car club that was holding an event next to a travelling stock route.
We were told by council that there was to be no camping on the stock route and we advised all attending that this was the case.
We were told by some aboriginal people who were also attending the meet that they where exempt from this requirement as they are allowed to camp without a permit.
Not to sure if it was a porky.

Honky
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Follow Up By: Member - DW Lennox Head(NSW) - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 11:48

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 11:48
Honky
This is like a fishing license and it is true that the aboriginal people do not need a permit to camp on a TSR.
After all we are one country, I thought, but not all are equal.
DW
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Reply By: Member - Mark G Gulmarrad - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:05

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:05
Myles

i see you took a drive up around Buccarumbi while you were down this way?

:-)
AnswerID: 401531

Follow Up By: Member - Myles F (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:25

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:25
Mark,
You’re good. Did you recognized the trees in the back ground?
Myles.
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark G Gulmarrad - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 03:19

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 03:19
Myles

hahaahaha....yep :-)
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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 22:30

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 22:30
Another QANGO...or similar.. can't even access a permit from their website...what a bunch of useless self serving clowns.
AnswerID: 401547

Follow Up By: Member - Myles F (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 22:49

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 22:49
Andrew…. I had to look it up…. quasi-autonomous non-governmental organization.
Yep, hence my query about how easy they are to access. It appears no one reading this thread has applied. I’ll advise in a new thread when I go through the process.
Myles.
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 08:46

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 08:46
Myles,

It might be better if you reported back in this thread. Keeps all the relevant info in one thread rather than have to search for part 2, 3, 4 ....... etc

Regards
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Follow Up By: Member - Myles F (QLD) - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 09:57

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 09:57
G’day Gramps,
The reason I said a new thread is because this may be in archives before I go through the process of applying for a permit. Is it still better to add to this thead even if it is old when I have something new to add?
Myles.
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 11:02

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 11:02
Myles,

Bugger !!! Good point re archives. IMHO it is better to add to this thread if it has'nt been archived by then.

Regards
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 11:09

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 11:09
The thread will only archive if there has been no updates for over 30 days. So basically the system will auto archive threads that have had no recent updates. So if you do it within 30 days that will keep it open.
David
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Reply By: Member - Teege (NSW) - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 05:23

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 05:23
Myles
These particular permits are more than just money-raising, or some bureaucracy gone mad. They are issued so that the Authority can regulate the use of the TSR's. I'm sure you would be excited to set up camp at 2 or 3 in the afternoon, only to find that at 6 o'clock your lovely campsite was overrun by 500 hungry and thirsty steers. TSR's are an important part of our rural infrastructure and their use has to be regulated to maintain them for their main purpose.

teege
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Follow Up By: Member - Myles F (QLD) - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 07:55

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 07:55
Fair comment Teege, not that I said anything to the contrary other than I needed a trailer for all my permits and I thought their authority had been challenged in court.
I didn’t comment on your previous post… as I said I had already visited that site.
Thanks for your contribution.
Myles.
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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 08:35

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 08:35
If my camp site was overrun by 500 steers I'd merely think that someone had ordered a bbq dinner and it had been delivered.

: )

Jack
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Follow Up By: Member - Myles F (QLD) - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 09:51

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 09:51
This is my camp from a few days ago. I love cows in camp… they’re not bad medium rare either.
Myles.
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Follow Up By: Member - Vince B (NSW) - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 19:26

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 19:26
Myles.
Thanks a lot LOL
The cows wandered up to our camp site.
Kip was too tired to bark at them.
Vince
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Reply By: Member - Vince B (NSW) - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 06:20

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 06:20
Myles.
I have sent MM covering this topic.
Cheers.
Vince
AnswerID: 401568

Reply By: Michael46 - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:15

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 10:15
I bought the NSW atlas showing the location of all TSR's from LHPA. It is very comprehensive it gives the size and what water is available however, on trying to find a couple there is no signs or notices that identify them on the ground. Should they all be fenced?

Does anyone know how to identify them?

Michael

AnswerID: 401592

Follow Up By: Moose - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 14:47

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 14:47
Is that atlas "The Long Paddock" (only thing I could see on their site that could show location of all TSRs)? And was there a cost?
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Follow Up By: Michael46 - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 15:49

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 15:49
Yes it was 'The Long Paddock' I ordered it from the Bathurst office from memory it could have been around $40.00.

Most of the TSR's listed in the book are not used, they don't form a part of any continuous track network, most seem to be isolated blocks in remote rural areas, but I haven't been able to identify the areas on the ground.

Michael
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Follow Up By: Moose - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 15:58

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 15:58
Thanks Michael
You'll find that they are separate blocks and that the continuous track is formed by the road verges in between those blocks.

Yep it's not often one sees them with a mob of driven cattle on them.

There is usually some form of signage to indicate that the area is a TSR (ususally small signs, hanging on the fence and most likely weather affected and thus hard to spot). They will usually be fenced but sometimes the fencing isn't the best.

BTW - what sort of info does that book provide regarding the location of the TSRs? I don't want to waste $40 if it doesn't provide reasonably good location details.

Cheers from the Moose
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Follow Up By: Michael46 - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 16:45

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 16:45
Not being a member here I can't insert an image.

There are 63 maps of NSW showing major and minor roads and rivers and railways. TSR's are indicated by stars on these roads each one is numbered and another page supplies the Grid Ref, Name of the TSR, Its area and what water is available.

I can email you a scan of a typical page if you like

Michael
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Follow Up By: Moose - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 17:01

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 17:01
Thanks heaps Michael
No need for the scan. Sounds good - next time I'm in NSW and near an office I'll see if I can grab one.
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 17:15

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 17:15
Michael46,

You don't have to be a Member to insert an image. Just load it up somewhere like Photobucket etc and use the IMG info to point to it e.g.
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FollowupID: 671018

Follow Up By: Michael46 - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 18:36

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 18:36
Try this for a glimpse at what is in the The Long Paddock

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Follow Up By: Michael46 - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 18:38

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 18:38
Sorry about the size. My first go at this

Michael
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Reply By: Member - A J- Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 13:06

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 13:06
Myles F (QLD) - this is going to be an interesting thread. If you read their web site they have some activities which do not require a permit and some that do.

The site states that camping requires a permit.

When you look at types of permits they have two - stock permits and other use permits.

Other use permits include community use permits and apiary permits - no mention of camping.

Some of my family were in their office in Dubbo and were going to purchase the book mentioned above only to be told they were not allowed to camp in TSR unless they had stock.



A J
AnswerID: 401616

Follow Up By: Member - Teege (NSW) - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 14:00

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 14:00
AJ
I think you are right. I've always taken the view that "camping" was to be taken separately from the camping by stockmen in charge of stock. - WRONG!!! The Act says this:

"97 Authorised use of travelling stock reserves for recreational activities

(1) A person is authorised to use a travelling stock reserve (whether controlled or managed) or part of any such reserve on any day between sunrise and sunset for any recreational activity prescribed by the regulations, subject to this Act and any conditions prescribed by the regulations"
The regulation (reg 26) lists a number of activities but does not include camping. Which is to be expected when one considers that the activity can only be carried out between sunrise and sunset. see regulation
So it seems that recreational camping is not permitted in TSR's. AND, I don't have a problem with that, given their importance to the rural community. Unfortunately, we would also have to take into consideration the way that some campers could be expected to leave the area if they were permitted to camp.

It just goes to show, you really have to check on the law itself, not what some public servant has interpreted it to be, or, in this case, what I had interpreted the website information to mean.
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Follow Up By: Member - Vince B (NSW) - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 19:24

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 19:24
AJ.
Our 4wd club used to camp at Cangai TSR(60135).
We sought permission from the Grafton Office & usually had written approval within 2/3 days.
We had Public Liability insurance which was shown on the RLPB approval.

Cheers.
Vince
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Follow Up By: Member - A J- Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 10:52

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 10:52
Vince B (NSW) - note your comments about the 4wd club - you permit could have been issued under a community use permit - the original post appears to indicate camping is allowed - By having a permit Grafton is aware of who is camping there - noticed both are coming out of the same office.

The web site does not give you any clear answer.

Dubbo office says no to camping in TSR.

Is the issue of permits for camping at the discretion of each office?


A J
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