Beautiful Australia " Dont look too hard "

Submitted: Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 07:26
ThreadID: 75605 Views:6006 Replies:16 FollowUps:34
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Just got back from a trip across Aus and back again , what a fantastic country we live in BUT what a rubbish tip it is . Does the brown signs with the T on them stand for toilet or trash ?????? . A certain Nullarbor cave which has large pool of water at the bottom with a small island in the middle has empty beer bottles dumped on it ! Collie in WA has a river drive from town down to a Blue Lake ( Diamond Lake a old open cut coal mine ) every site along the river is full of toilet paper , tins , bottles , syringe disposal packs , fast food wrappers , Wellington Dam , great place but when trying to find a clean place up the back to have a fish we gave up ( its currently marron season and people are every where chasing marron ) after navigating a kilometre or so along the shore line and still not clear of toilet paper , bottles ,chook pellet bags. I finally pulled up to have a fish but the area I chose to stop was a bad one " a dead roo ( marron bait ) and other crap made it quite unpleasant .
Below Wellington Dam a beautiful river ( excellent tail race fishery and marron stream and reasonably clean except for the camping areas where toilet paper is every where in the bush . The Honeymoon Pools a truly great spot with some nice fish , gin clear water . Started the trip around the SW but every where there is rubbish . WA still allows alot of beach driving but believe it or not people will pull up on a beach and have a fish / swim / picnic/ fish and drive off and leave every plastic plate , empty tin , bottle and bait packet on the beach .
Bunbury had the greatest crabbing ever and we had a few feeds of succulent Blue Swimmer . As we worked our way South camping it was the same story , every camp-site we chose was littered to some degree of toilet paper and trash . The huge dunes near where the Warren River meets the Indian Ocean is a unbelievable place and you can camp in a number of places but just check out the trash . So many National Parks and so much toilet paper and junk . Got to " The Gap " Natural Bridge " and the Blow Holes . On the walk down to the Blow Holes a group of Banksia on the left provide a large protected area , it is reeking and full of toilet paper , faeces , bottles , cans and a few skinny angels ( Ultra Thin with Wings ) , Maybe it gets better as you get further out ????? No it is basically the same every where . Cape Arid National Park is simply stunning but the camp areas are full of toilet paper and crap , beaches have flotsam at high tide mark that carries every thing with it , we are choking on plastic . Seal Creek , caught some Salmon and Flat Head here , walked to the head land east of us to find campers near us had fished there last night and left all their empty beer bottles and bait packets on the beach . Israelite Bay , same thing even though signs implore people to keep the bay clean , head land on the southern extremity of the bay good fishing ( cracks in the rocks here hold bottles and cans ) from here to Mount Ragged , very remote , decide to climb Tower Peak ( wonder if any one has taken a dump on the top ??? ) about 1/2 way up a packet of Pizza Shapes looks out of place in this litter free place , I revert to my Filthy Habit of picking up other peoples junk . A bit further a long is a discarded pair of " panties " looks like they have been used in place of toilet paper . Made it to the cairn at the top and no other rubbish . Eventually hit the tar again at Balladonia and head East again , turn off at Cocklebiddy and head South Again for Twilight Cove 30 kms South , people at the road house warn it may take three hours . What a spectacular place but the rubbish here gets worse , camp-sites littered with every sort of garbage and of course the now expected toilet paper ( don't know if I mentioned it but its just not on the ground but also in the bushes like decoration's . Also the tides here dump huuuuuuuuge amounts of rubbish in this cove at the end of the cliffs . Caught some Salmon here and blown away by the beauty of the place and the wind . Australia Day Eve and a warning of a bad storm going to hit . Decide to camp in a big cave under the cliffs at the Western End of the Cove out of the Rain and Winds . Fresh tracks out side show the one other camper here visited here the day before . I check out the cave " old mate has taken a dump here in the cave and didn't bury any part of it and the toilet paper litters the floor of the cave along with a oil bottle , a couple of plastic bottles , a plastic hair roller and a fluro object which I think might be a fishing float . Rubbish along the base of the cliffs here every where , the Southern Ocean is concentrating piles of plastic here .
A great night was spent watching a ferocious electrical storm from the haven of the cave and went to sleep with the rain belting down and the interior of the cave being illuminated by the hundreds of lightning strikes occurring , thoughts of Stuart Diver came to me as I lay under the huge Limestone Cliffs and I also wondered if this cave was where Alby Mangles spent some time many years ago . Next day found a strange object in the scrub above , wonder whether ith may be part of Skylab which crashed between here and Balladonia ???? . South Australia is remarkedly BETTER , wonder whether it has any thing to do with the Government here have a refund on containers purchased here ??????? . A large dark patch among the white dunes here invited inspection , what I discovered was stunning , the area had taken a massive hit of lighting in years gone by and the dunes were a mass of FULGARITES , some as big as a leg and up to one and a half meters high and one of the most remarkable to my was no beer bottles , alcho pop cans or toilet paper . A lot of the FULGARITES were still vertical in the sand .
Stopped at a Parking area near POOCHERA , the Blue Signs with the P on them , woke in the morning surrounded by toilet paper , tyres , pallets , wrappers and radiator coolant containers . This P areas was the same from one end to the other and it wasn't until back in NSW I could find a worse one , check it out for yourselves its the one between Molong and Wellington on the BELL River , S 32d 54'41.05" E 148d53,26.62" maybe its actually the local tip and the Rest Area Sign is out of place .
Any one rember the " Take nothing but photo's leave nothing but foot prints " or " Leave a place in the same condition or better as when you found it " or " bury your toilet waste " seems there's a lot of people who go to the extremes to get to the unique places we are so lucky to have in Aus and to enjoy them and then crap on them and leave !
Its still a great country and its not until you leave it and come back do you realise how lucky we are , I cant believe we are a nation of dumpers ? Maybe I am mistaken and am looking to hard , just look at the obvious beauty and DONT LOOK TOO HARD around you .
Cheers
Ken
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Reply By: Notso - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 08:02

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 08:02
Hmmm, there are those among us who missed out on some vital genes in the transition to Human, although I doubt that many of the so called "Lower Animal Species" would make such a mess of their dens.

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Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 08:19

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 08:19
Ken, pargraphs make for easier reading but must agree with you.

Live and work in the Wheatbelt, travel out of town nearly every day, some back roads where you dont see another vehicle for over an hour and yet, see more old tyres and batteries than at a wreckers yard, more beer bottles than the back yard of a brewery, more food packaging than Coles can ever dream of stocking.

Even picked up a large paper bag with 5 tiny kittens in it, 3 dead the other 2 nearly, middle of no where on a 43 deg day.

Some people abuse the privilage of being alive.


Cheers......Lionel.
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Follow Up By: Ken S - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 08:31

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 08:31
Hi Lionel , travelled from Norseman along the Granite Woodlands Trail to Hyden , Wave Rock through the Wheatbelt , its a great country ,

sorry about the paragraphs it sure does look like a hell of a lot of reading but compared to the amount of junk I refer to its miniscule ,

you got to agree , its out there you just have to look on the sides of the roads , parking areas , etc any where where people stop they drop !

Cheers mate , a LOT and I mean a LOT abuse the privilage you talk about , I wonder if a test when prior to getting your licence such a multiple choice would be any good , you know the correct way to dipose of litter , how to crap in the bush and leave no sign etc would , yeah no chance , every one can tick the right boxes but putting it into practice is a whole different thing .

ALL the State' s and Territory need to follow SA lead or better , every beer bottle and can has a $1 added to it and when you take it back empty you get your $ back and when you are rich enough to throw that $1 on the ground some one will pick it up for you and cash it in .
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Reply By: Member - Uncle (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 08:44

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 08:44
Ken,
just some of the Nullarbor rubbish we encountered one only "one " of our stops for a break.!!Image Could Not Be Found

Not to mention the loads of toilet paper also, as you saw yourself. Some people have never seen or heard of a shovel....
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Follow Up By: Ken S - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 04:06

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 04:06
Uncle !!!! You do it to , take photo's of rubbish , I really did think that I was the only one with a problem but from the reaction there is a lot of us out there that find it appalling , I was beginning to think I really had a bad problem .

There are dumps like this at very regular intervals .

The toilet paper thing is starting to make some sense as well " wee wipes " are a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig problem , funnily enough they are probably the best of the worst as a good wet season can dispose of the old but the new keep appearing so the campers are condemed to be surrounded by tissue and trash for ever .

I got a heap of photo's of some big disgusting messes as well in many different places , its not hard to find .

Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Myles F (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 09:11

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 09:11
What are these inconsiderates doing out there in the first place? Are they there to enjoy the landscape? Makes me cringe.
Myles.
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Follow Up By: Member - Joe F (WA) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 14:59

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 14:59
G'day Myles F ~ and all the other posters and readers angry enough to respond to the original forum post by Ken S ~ Beautiful Australia " Dont look too hard "

Well people most of you now realize why we are seeing parts of out back Australia that we hold special for whatever reason, closed off or managed and regulated for a fee. I can't say it is a particular race of person(s) responsible for the "crap" being wilfully left behind for others to contend with, because I am not a deomgrapher, but I can tell you the " wilful dumping " issue we are all reading about is like a bastard cancer and it is spreading unchecked through what was once a pristine host.

The part of the world that I live in is being steadily consumed by "crap" not only the human species kind but by what the humans bring in with them and simply refuse to take out with them ~ Government aided resource company greed is also guilty to a huge degree.

I have for several years (21) now seen the human impact on the landscape in the Pilbara and this is mostly in what one can only describe as pristine country.

Sadly for all of us who strive for the peace and solitude in out back Australia, there are fewer places to go to that are unspoiled, not necessarily by vehicle access tracks ~ but by what the occupiers of the vehicles (4wd's) ~ wilfully leave behind, it is truly a bitter pill to swallow, but it is our fellow wilderness seeking, off road driving, vehicle proud selves, I generalize with that part, I know its not you or me personally, but for the most part it is people in four wheel drive vehicles as most of the pristine parts of the out back can only be accessed easily by 4wd vehicles ~ the wilfully dumped thing might only be a cigarette butt or a piece of chewing gum, or a turd, it does not actually matter what the object is ~ what matters is that it is happening as we speak and one day we will all feel the very negative side of "wilful dumping" and destroying what is in reality irreplaceable ~ if you witness some one wilfully doing the wrong thing ~ say something there and then, it is your heritage too !!

I forgot to put the image title in for the top picture ~ it is a highway roadside stop along the Great Northern Highway WA. There was a sign on a post stating ~ P ~ PIGS that is !!!!

Image Could Not Be Found Image Could Not Be Found
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Follow Up By: Ken S - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 07:15

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 07:15
Myles , " what are they doing out there ??? Mate over 1000 people viewed this thread and a dozen people replied , forgetting decimal points around 1 percent of people think it worthy to comment on and I reckon that would probablly give you a idea of the percentage of dumpers to those who dispose . I get to see the results of campers near my place and the people who leave rubbish is in the 90 something percent , some leave dirty fires which they must believe gets rid of every thing as bottles , caps , cans and foil all go in to the fire but funnily enough its still there when they go , it doesn't burn .

When you next observe ten people chances are nine of them are dumpers and one does the right thing , see what others reckon the percents are !
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Reply By: kwk56pt - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 09:14

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 09:14
Yes i have seen it myself, the toilet paper everywhere its hard to understand why it cant be buried or disposed of correctly.Our local shires are taking action om the rubbish issue. I do now understand why the no camping signs are springing up and campers will end up herded into caravan parks. The solution is rubbish has to have value, paid for at purchase so cash is given back when it is disposed of correctly. We could start with drink containers and bait bags then tyres oil containers etc.Yes I dont know how to do it but the cost of disposal has to be paid for at the point of purchase like a deposit so that rubbish is seen as income and more importantly picked up. The problem is wide spread. I dont have any solution on the toilet paper issue.
AnswerID: 401716

Follow Up By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 09:42

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 09:42
On the toilet paper issue.

We camped at a great place down south WA and yes there was toilet paper left around. I did notice most toilet paper did not have a deposit next to it so I surmised these where just quick wee stops.




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Follow Up By: OREJAP - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 10:54

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 10:54
Camped by one of our famous rivers in 2009 nice & peaceful. A little Korean made car pulls up young woman with a little baby & a three or four year old in vehicle. Mother fishes for awhile whilst listenening to DOOF DOOF music played at 150 decibels!!! Drives off after about an hour leaves lunch wrappers,drink bottles & used nappy by side of river. As she was leaving I noticed the mess and called out to her. She probably couldn't hear me because of the loud music she was playing but as I was taking some photos at the time of some local birds putting in their earplugs I took a photo of the vehicle & rego plates. Saw her the next day up further from where we were camped so I stopped and talked to her. She told me she had moved from the city with her boyfriend, on the dole no chance of work so she thought she would do some fishing to pass the time of day. I asked her about picking up her mess she had left near our campsite & her reply was she would get around to it. Never did. So, gave all her info to local by laws man whom, just happened to be passing bye. He spoke to her and she failed the attitude/love & respect your country test....fine $500!!! I have booked her in with a surgeon I know who will perform a frontal labotomy on her for free seeing that she is on the dole, probably has a health care card and has the right attitude to qualify.
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Follow Up By: Who was that again? (Vic) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:02

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:02
Quite a mentality about some people OREJAP. In Victoria there is a 1800 litter line you can call, but you are only told you can go online and register to report at the EPA Victoria . I actually did so with a GPS location from Google Mapping.

You have to be prepared if the person challenges though to provide a statement. I haven't been asked for anything more so I guess the driver paid the fine. I provided a description of the number of people in the car, the car, the number plate. The lunch wrappers were all congregated and thrown at some road works. The car overtook me later so I was able to get all the detail I needed.

Environment NSW is probably the easiest and amazing for NSW probably the easiest reporting
Register in Western Australia to report litterers
Dob in a Tosser for cigarette butts which are everywhere and the packets too.

It is apparent that some states are more proactive than others, the South Australian container deposit legislation helps with that.
Cheers,
Who?
John

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Reply By: Top End Explorer - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 09:38

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 09:38
A couple of weeks ago I watched a program on CNN, it was about a community in the US where people were paid for recycling, their bins were weighed and the payment was in voucher's to participating stores etc.

There was 100% participation of the community.

In Germany you buy your beer in crates, these crates and bottles have a deposit built into the price, on return of the crate you receive a voucher that is redeemed when you pay for you next crate, this also applied to crates of soft drinks and water, there is a deposit on individual bottles as well.

Cheers Steve.
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Follow Up By: Member - DW Lennox Head(NSW) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 10:38

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 10:38
It is no wonder, after reading the previous messages, that councils are stopping free camping. There are quite a lot of disgusting people out there who do not care.
Just south of Alice Springs there was a free camp, near the cemetery, which looked like a rubbish dump. At the time I drove past the usual types who would never go to a caravan park were there amongst the filth.
Last weekend, we were in a National Park off the Gwydir Highway west of Grafton. When we arrived there were several sites that had been left with the rubbish of the grubs that had been there.
Our caravan is about to be set up for approval to be registered for "Leave No Trace". This may allow similar approved vehicles to free camp and the types who do not have approval will be fined by councils if they are not in either a camp ground or caravan park.
So the dregs of the camping society will then have difficulty in gaining access to most areas. Bring it on!
DW
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Follow Up By: Ken S - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 04:19

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 04:19
Steve we really have to do the same thing as the problem is only going to rapidly expand as the people who do the dropping , dumping , crapping , polluting are teaching their kids that this is how you act while out in the bush
" roughing " it and enjoying nature .

How do we do it ??? exactly how you are suggesting , copy those who are already doing it so easy and then make it better .

I propose a $1 a bottle , can , etc be added tomorrow , now rubbish is no longer rubbish and people love stuff they can get money for and will (a) not throw it away and (b) pick it up and cash it in if they find it thrown away , so easy but our polllies SA excluded have their heads in the sand , what a ecomomical stimmulus they could create if the put a billion dollars up now for the return of any bottle , can etc up until the billion dollars ran out , that would be ten billion tins and bottles out there now that people would pick up in the DASH $ CASH !

IT REALLY IS EASY but alot easier to just dump it !
Thanks for your concern
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Reply By: Neil & Pauline - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 10:21

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 10:21
I got so concerned about the rubbish I decided to do my bit. I bought a picker uper thingy so now when I stop somewhere for a break I pick up some rubbish. I don't always get it all but thought if everyone did a little bit all would be clean. If everyone that has commented on or viewed this site picked up a shopping bag of rubbish each time they stopped just imagine how much cleaner the place would be. Despite what appears it is only a minority that have no consideration for others.

I refuse to let those minority ruin my days.

Neil
AnswerID: 401722

Follow Up By: Member - Carl- Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 10:35

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 10:35
Neil,

I'm with you. I have my rubber gloves and wander around and collect rubbish. We all do it then we will have clean camp sites.

They were doing research on how long it took to eat takeaway junk food. They descovered the best way was to walk out of town and see where the wrapers were thrown.

I blame young people. Mind you I also blame them for global warming, floods and droughts as well. I found that life is better when you have someone to blame.



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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 11:44

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 11:44
Neil,

Have done the same and cleaned up messes left by others. With a pair of gloves and a garbage bag it doesn't take very long. Just a pity that those who make the mess in the first place don't understand how little effort it takes.

Toilet paper is a big problem. Many people dont know how to use a spade. What is wrong with having a spare supermarket bag (or 3) in the vehicle to hold "wee wipes" until the next garbage bin is available? Many younger folk have an overdevelopped "yuk" response so think its OK for others to deal with what they think they cant deal with.

We have noticed in the last couple of years that many more people are using wet wipes, and if left lying around, they are even worse than toilet paper in that they break down very slowly - on a par with disposable nappies!

Saw an interesting sign re garbage bins on the outskirts of Albany last year - something to the effect that they are not to be used for disposal of human excrement. Now I'm not suggesting that they should be used for that purpose, but maybe if rubbish bins have been used for that, the real solution would be to construct a toilet somewhere?

Cheers,

Val
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
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Follow Up By: Member - Duke (TAS) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 21:43

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 21:43
Neil & Pauline,
Agree 100%. Should not have to do it but i think it is the only way to fix the problem. Also front the Grubs if you see them littering and take a photo.
They have to be a minority so if the majority jack up on them maybe they might get the message.
Duke
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Follow Up By: Ken S - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 04:30

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 04:30
Neil , I can come out of the closet and admit that I to suffer from the same Filthy Disgusting Habit of picking up other peoples rubbish , I have a small farm with a river running through it and allow access to the river through it for free camping and forever are picking up the rubbish left behind , prior to heading West there was a huge mess left at one of the camp site's but I refrained from picking it up as the summer holidays had started and I knew when I got back that it would still be there only bigger and dirtier !

Unfortunately Duke it doesn't fix the problem as it is only a very temporary solution , there is another dumper just around the corner .

To be honest , some areas would require trucks to remove the amounts of rubbish accumulated in some areas and this is no exaggeration , look at some of the above photo's .

Cheers mate good to see you care .
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Follow Up By: Earvin - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 16:24

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 16:24
Good on you Neil and others. I have also started picking up others rubbish. Whether I am walking or kayaking I make sure I pick up rubbish as I go. It is amazing how much you find when you look.
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Reply By: Member - Don M (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 10:38

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 10:38
This is going to sound racist but the education of the Australian public happened in the early '70's and by the 80's it was rare to see this kind of littering.

However the large influx of Asians, Indians and Middle Eastern immigrants has seen the littering increase markedly because in their home country, it is not an issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for controlled immigration and have no issue with any of the races mentioned but I have seen too many examples of such abuse, a couple of times in front of me.

Once, a lovely Indian family had a big picnic...., about 30 of them in the park at Nelson Bay. As the weather looked as though it would turn nasty, they got up into their cars and took off, but not before I asked them if they were going to put their rubbish in the bins provided...!! They looked at me as if I was mad and took off anyway. I put all their rubbish in the bin.

Another time at a Rest stop on the new England Hwy. a group of M.E. sat around with McDonalds and then left all their wrappings and other crap on the table...with a bin 10' away. If I had been quick enough, I would have collected it all and thrown it in the bloody car...geez they make me mad..!!!
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 11:52

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 11:52
Last year while driven down my street I saw a pack of Hungry Jacks come out of the window of a parked car.

I stopped to find 2 white anglo Australian males in their early 20s in the car.

It was a hotted up hoon thing.

When I challenged them they denied owning the junk even though one of then was still eating his Hungry Jacks in the passenger seat.

I picked up the mess and dropped it into the drivers lap and told him never to be seen doing it again or every panel on his beloved car would be accidently dented by a very angry old man.

They looked confused and quite frightened that someone would actually tell them what they could do !

Litter is not a race thing it is a belief that "I can do whatever I want and no one can tell me any different"

Sadly that kind of thinking is all to common in our society I even see it here on this forum when new laws are brought in to protect and preserve areas and icons like Uluru.

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Follow Up By: Gramps - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:27

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:27
"Litter is not a race thing it is a belief that "I can do whatever I want and no one can tell me any different" "

Agree 100 %. That applies throughout society from top to bottom.


Regards
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Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:28

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:28
Stupid parents create stupid kids independent of race. It is just too unfortunate that so many stupid people live in Australia, and again I do not believe it is a racial thing.

The worst form of littering is the burning cigarette out of the window in high summer. I see this on the street at least 3 times a day in Perth.

good luck
gmd
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 14:05

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 14:05
We lived behind a good respectable Catholic school in Maroochydore.

The children were NOT allowed to pick up litter in the school yard for fear they injure themselves on something dangerous !!!

you can imagine the amount of litter that came over our fence.

The school yard drained directly into the Maroochy river so when we got the usual summer storms the rubbish floated directly into the river.

When New laws came in regarding putting rubbish into waterways in Queensland I contacted the authority Nat Parks, they refused point blank to fine the school and sent someone out to talk to them.

The schools janitor was tasked to pick up the rubbish as well as his other normal duties :-(

This lasted for about a week before it was back to its normal rubbished state.

It was nothing to see parents throw rubbish on the ground while waiting to collect their kids or to have rubbish thrown over our fence by children on their way home.

We make a lot of fuss about save the dolphins etc but cannot be bothered walking 10 ft to put rubbish in a bin.

End of rant !
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 14:06

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 14:06
I do know a lot of good people who do make the effort to keep Australia clean and beautiful !!!!

There is good news out there too :-)
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Follow Up By: Ken S - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 05:07

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 05:07
Don I know what your saying but to be honest I can say I have seen a lot of race's dump their crap , white , black , yellow or olive it doesn't seem to matter , seen the ME , Indian , Aboriginal etc etc etc but you only have to go to any Fast Food Store and watch people eat in the car park and then dump their rubbish out and go , what they seem to have in common is two arms , two legs and a head .

You are right in saying its a racist thing but the unfortunate part about it that it APPEARS to be every race.

But not having travelled OS's apart from NZ I haven't studied the occupants of other counties rubbish dumping etiquette's.

There must be some clean countries out there , Australia has such a small population compared to the major countries of the world , how can we make such a mess of our COUNTRY !

Maybe we should hold our population level to what it is now until we can work out how to clean up after ourselves .

Cheers Don
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Follow Up By: Member - Don M (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 07:41

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 07:41
Well, I probably should have bitten my tongue about race but, to some extent, it is based on experience living in Asia.

I was Regional Director of our firm in the mid/late 90's, living with my family in KL, Malaysia. Now we, as a family love Malaysia and have many good friends there but their habits in personal rubbish disposal is appalling and even my own staff when traveling with me would have no issue with throwing rubbish out the window. I would chastise them and I would get..." aiyo, don't bother lah.why you Aussies care so much."

One time in downtown KL, a couple of mid teen boys came out of Maccas and simply scrunched up their rubbish and dropped it on the footpath. I remonstrated but they looked at me as if I had a hole in my head and I picked up the rubbish...they couldn't have cared less and no local adult cares either. Now I haven't been there since 2006 and nothing much had changed, maybe it has now.
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 11:58

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 11:58
Yet look at Singapore it would have to be the cleanest city on earth !

It is not race it is education
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 11:59

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 11:59
Education and law enforcement ;-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Feb 01, 2010 at 16:03

Monday, Feb 01, 2010 at 16:03
I'm inclined to agree Don, although as with any generalisation it's not always the case (Aussies are just as capable of littering). In the couple of asian countries I've visited (exc. Singapore!) it is expected that you'll just drop your rubbish wherever you are - the people seem to like to sit around surrounded by rubbish (and of crouse: rats). Considering it's "the norm" in their country, when they migrate to Australia, is there a way to cause them to suddenly change such 'habits' they've grown up with?

It used to be socially unacceptable to drop rubbish in Australia, but seems to be becoming less and less so, even among many locally-bred Aussies - but I think it's part of a deeper problem - most kids aren't taught to consider other people anymore.

Some people seem to even 'tag' a place by the amount of rubbish they leave behind (personally I'd be so ashamed to leave a place like that). Often I've observed people leave so much rubbish in such a short space of time (in camp/picnic areas or trains, planes, buses/coaches, etc.) that they have to have planned ahead and brought extra rubbish just to 'tag' the spot and say "we've been there". Some people just have no shame...
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 17:26

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 17:26
Ken, I am so fortunate that I don't even have to spend any dough on fuel to have the privilege of witnessing the aftermath of the behaviour of the pigs of our society. Our block has a fair bit of natural vegetation left on the verge. Pretty much every day I get the pleasure of picking up old Hungry Jacks wrappers, plastic and glass drink containers and various other pieces of garbage thrown there by the mentally challenged of our society. Travelling our WA highways and stopping at the provided parking bays for a little break from driving it appears that this problem is getting worse regardless of the availability of rubbish bins and public "long drop" composting toilets. It makes you wonder what the usual place of abode of these creatures look like. I have also noticed the increase of old batteries, tyres both car and large truck size, old 5 and 20 and 200 litre oil and fuel drums being left at these sites or just discarded on the roadside. I guess the littering habit is not confined to any one section of society.
The increase in the number of 4wd vehicles seems to have given these parasites access to the more remote and beautiful places Australia has to offer. Is it any wonder more and more of the unique and attractive parts of our country are being locked away. We recently spent a couple of weeks holiday with family at Warroora Station and one of the requirements of camping there was that a chemical toilet had to be brought along and a dump point was provided. Maybe of some assistance in certain areas. Just an extension of the "U bring it in U take it out" rule

Cheers Pop
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Follow Up By: Ken S - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 04:52

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 04:52
POP I know what you mean , I have a small place on a river and people use the area as a dump , even had a stolen car dumped there last year so I don't have to travel at all like you I can find it so easily and the area out the front of the house see's rubbish dumped from cars travelling past on a regular basis .

Mate I reckon a 200 litre drum should attract about a $50 refund at the recycling depot paid for by the person who bought the drum , they get the $50 back when they take it back to the either the fuel depot or recycling centre , so easy and hey if they are rich enough to dump it any way I will pick up a ute load for them and pocket the cash , reckon I could fit 6 on the back of a ute , let the gov offer a reward of $50 a drum now and see how many get picked up . Where will the money come from ??? Lets take ten million out of Peter Garrett insulation rort money , people are going halves with installers in the rebates to have their houses insulated when they are already insulated .

Works like this , Hi Pop I notice your house is insulated but would you like $600 any way , you sign this bit of paper to say we have insulated your house and I get $600 and you get $600 , Thanks Mr Garret and you stupid tax payers .

Know where I rather see my taxes going .
Good onya POP good to see it P's you off too the more people that want to do something the more chance we will be able to do something .
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 17:46

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 17:46
My 2.2 cents worth:

Here in WA we are woefully behind the Eastern States in providing public dump points for toilet cassettes.

This won't help the people who crap on the ground and don't know how to use shovels but it will help caravanners with their own facilities.

Believe it or not there are people who are annoyed at the increasing number of vans with their own toilets because it means there will be more people free camping. People getting further and further into the bush is inevitable: better they have their own facilities.

But the over-riding feature of this whole Thread is the syndrome that is all pervasive. It's everywhere you go. It's that appalling attitude:

IT'S ALL ABOUT ME !!!

Every aspect of human behaviour in every town and city in Australia is dominated by this belief.

IF ONLY we could change things so people would show more consideration for others, more courtesy, more good manners.

I always told my kids that they should conduct themselves in such a way that they could NEVER be criticised. I hope some of it stuck.

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 18:31

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 18:31
I agree with the consensus views and comments above.
The rubbish problem is getting seriously out of hand.

Maybe its time to re start the "Keep Australia Beautiful Campaign" that was run so successfully I think back in the 70's??

You remember the one that labelled a person who dropped litter and rubbish as a pig.

It just may shame a few into thinking about whats right in this sorry little world.

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Follow Up By: Gramps - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 18:58

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 18:58
John,

I don't think shaming them will work - their hides are too thick. Just dob them in whenever the opportunity arises. Let the authorities take it from there.

Regards
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 19:41

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 19:41
Al I don't disagree with you but it must be more effective to educate the masses (or at least try) than to enforce policing and compliance??

Whats being done now is not working.



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Follow Up By: Gramps - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 21:22

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 21:22
John,

If the culprits were under 5yo I'd agree entirely with education. The problem we have is it's generally adults or at least those who know right from wrong and are just too damn lazy or could'nt care less. Why bother with more education and multiple warnings, counselling etc etc etc. They've all been tried before and work for the majority of people. What we're left with is the dregs, the absolute scum. The only thing that will get them to reconsider their actions is if it costs them. Of course, we'll still have the total morons but we're stuck with them unfortunately.

Regards
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Reply By: Member - Matt & Caz H (QLD) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 19:12

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 19:12
Hi Ken

We have just completed the Nullarbor (Norseman to Ceduna) and we were disgusted with the amount of rubbish, the camp area's have bins ect but some pigs just don't use them. The most annoying thing I came across was a table/bbq area (which had a bin.....) was littered with broken bottles. Another was littered with loo paper.

Cheers
Caz
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Follow Up By: Member - Duke (TAS) - Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 21:59

Saturday, Jan 30, 2010 at 21:59
I believe the Keep Australia Beautiful message gives the impression that its OK to litter for 364 days a year then pick up a bit on day 365 and all is hunky dory.
It should be jammed down every ones throat 365 days a year and the message just might get through.
As some-one earlier said, put a price on it at the place of purchase like they do in SA and i am sure it would help.
Have been traveling this great country for 10 years full time and its definitely getting worse.
I am sure we are preaching to the converted on this Forum so all we can do is confront the Grubs we see offending.
Duke
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Follow Up By: Ken S - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 05:30

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 05:30
Caz its not hard to find , it truly is every where , the truckle dumps it , the 4wders dump it , motor cyclists , car drivers dump it why its a pretty good chance that the majority of people who read this thread are guilty of it , my trip took in a lot of 4wding and there is heaps of people with 4wds who go to great extents to deliver cold beer , wine and other drinks to there very remote camp site . These very precious commodities are consumed amongst Australia's finest , they take plastic patio furniture and numerous other items and when its all over those empty vessels and broken plastic items and cheap fold up chairs are to be left in situ as they are worthless and not worth taking up the space they did on the trip in .

BUT LETS NOT FORGET BOATS / SHIPS , where does all the plastic bottles , floats , bouys , boxes , containers , drums , rope , and other stuff on the beaches come from , its a good bet the big majority using the ocean highways are dumping the same as those on land ( where does 1 war ship with a crew of 4500 dump the waste generated by this amount of people ?????? ) I know its top secret , guess where the biggest amount of radio active waste generated today is legally dumped , yes you guessed it the ocean .

Seen a program a few months ago where a lot of the waste that goes into the ocean is accumulating in a area which is so deep that you physically wade through plastic , the fish are contaminated and so on and so forth .

Its good to see we have a dozen or so people in Australia who seem to care least where not by ourselves .
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 08:22

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 08:22
Hi Ken

It can be a problem , but I have observed that it tends to be more in places with easy casual access.

In Victoria and the places we go to I think that their is a low level of rubbish dumping.

We camp at a place call Talbotville over Xmas , its very popular but you have to go right out of the way to get there , and while occasionally you get an idiot , overall its very good.

The parks people have had a policy of not providing rubbish bins for years, but it has the odd drop loo.

Yesterday I casually stopped at a river access point just off a bitumen back road and it was rubbish as you describe.

I have noted that , where you have to put in an effort , or have a specific reason to go somewhere, or the place has some value to you then there is less rubbish.

Sounds like this theory wouldn't hold up on your Marron fishing spots though.

Don't get discouraged by providing free access to your own property.

We prodive free access to ours (trailbike users mostly under 25 ) and its generally well looked after , the only ones who got me really mad were casual friends off users just staying for the night who have thrown bottles around.

On this occasion I could have picked up junk but rather when everyone woke up I went to the campsite and asked for the groups help in searching the nearby bush "as there appeared to have been bottles thrown by previous campers"

The guilty party was in this group and didn't say beep, but I am pretty sure the message got thru in a constructive way.













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Follow Up By: Ken S - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 10:52

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 10:52
Hi Robbin , I thought the more effort required to access a spot the better it would be , Cape Arid accessed from Esperance is via dirt roads with corrugates that will shake the fillings in your teeth loose . Nah , if you can drive there it will be the same , went to Thomas River , paid camping fee's at the Registration Site at the entrance then found the camp site was actually a shire camp site and the DEC site was not on the water so paid again , toilet paper , alco pop cans etc , had a great bbq thanks to the Shire Supplied Free gas bbq and then went to take some pics of the Black Swans on Thomas River , over hanging bush near the water had a few craps and papers as every where else BUT Thomas River had 2wds there so thought it would be better the further travelled . Camp-site was adorned with the toilet paper but it seems from other posts these are referred to as wee wipes as opposed to those who shhhhhhaaaake !

There was a few spots that Google Earth showed as having no access other than by walking or boat , did a walk into a isolated beach / cove and it was good but the beach was still covered with rubbish from the ocean .

Poison Creek , Seal Creek and Jorndee Creeks camping areas the same state as others . Israelite Bay camp areas pretty bad , paper and feminine hygiene products scattered about , bottles , tables etc , plastic patio chair on the bay at the Southern End , Rocky head land had plenty bottles and cans .

The Telegraph Station sits amid a circle of toilet paper .

The track from The Bay towards Balladonia has a few cans and bottles along the track but not excessively bad but judging by the vehicle tracks not all that well used . Mount Ragged was pretty good , just a few things on the Mountain .

As for the free access at my place , the river holds gold and as such a fossicking club come on a regular basis and they are welcome any time as when they leave you wouldn't know they have been , they by their actions would be welcome to access a lot of private properties but they are a very small minority . The time is coming when a locked gate will be the order of the day but a few select people will get a key and those who get a chance to prove they can do the same as the fossickers will be more than welcome .
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Feb 01, 2010 at 16:16

Monday, Feb 01, 2010 at 16:16
Excellent solution Robin. Another one was one that my brother tried. He was driving school buses for a while and got sick of picking up rubbish after the kids on every run so it would be clean for the next lot. One day it was particularly bad so he kept it all in a bag and then scattered it through the bus just before that particular run. The kids obviously had a guilty conscience because they even asked him "are you trying to tell us something?"

I guess on your property you also have the right/ability to choose who can come to stay next time depending how they left the place last time they stayed.
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Reply By: Member - Duke (TAS) - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 21:08

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 21:08
Ken
I call them Fanny Flowers and they seem to grow at an enormous rate around Roadside rest areas.
Duke
AnswerID: 401970

Reply By: BuggerBoggedAgain - Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 21:49

Sunday, Jan 31, 2010 at 21:49
I have read all the posts as of 9.00pm tonight and all of them said, not me, not me, some-one else, I bet my bottom dollar one of you have,

I confess, as an ex-truckie I have crapped around 3 States for 30 yrs, always with my little wind down shovel/hoe. When I complained to the NSW RTA about truck-resting areas with a 44 gallon drum as a garbage bin and no toilet facilities, I was told( and I still have the letter) they were working on the problem, that was 30 yrs ago and up till now only 5 FIVE rest areas have been built, 5 in 30 yrs, just in NSW

So, where does our truckie crap? In the truck rest areas of course, for those who see a truckies rest area without toilet facilities, keep on driving, the stench is only washed away after decent rainfalls.

I have crapped along every major highway and byways, once when I got food poisoning from a truckies stop at Willowtree, I was crapping and spewing in this drain at Armidale all night long and finally made my way to the hospital only after the place I was delivering to, opened up.

Honestly, where is the right place to hang a crap, has anyone notice how many parking spaces I need to go to public toilets, some trips, because of the securities in place we were'nt allowed to move more than 20 ft from truck.
And if you ever saw my trucks floor, it was a mini-storage rubbish dump, until I got to a 44 gall. garbage bin.

Next time you drive from Newcastle to Brissy, count how many truckies rest areas with toilets, then write a letter to RTA, every bit helps.

As one post said, eyerybodies guilty of something, truckies, 4wd, caravanners,C/Ters, and I am not ashamed for a bodily function BUT, I am cheesed off with 3 ROAD TRAFFIC AUTHORITIES for not building facilities for those to carry this country on its back.
AnswerID: 401981

Follow Up By: Ken S - Monday, Feb 01, 2010 at 08:46

Monday, Feb 01, 2010 at 08:46
Hey BuggerBoggedAgain , your bottom dollar is safe but you are a miniscule minority , truckies are a big offender but not many use a wind down shovel/hoe . If we all did life in the P areas would be more bearable .

I got a wind down pick /shovel which travels with me always , had to weld in a steel handle as the original give up the ghost years ago . Every one has bodily functions but very few do what you do and bury their bodily wastes and the material used to clean up after the function .

Noticed a lot and I mean a lot of P areas with bins and a lot of truck parking areas with bins from East to West so things are definitlety improving for the truckie and there is quite a few green toilets springinging up across Aus and if you are lucky enough to find them clean its good but go in after some one has had a number 3 ( youv'e seen the ad you just got to turn around and head out again until the unfortunate who cleans up after them has done the rounds ) keep up your good habits and lets hope the rest of the truckers catch on !
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Feb 01, 2010 at 16:24

Monday, Feb 01, 2010 at 16:24
You raise some good points BBA - I've never driven a truck and hadn't given it much thought (the coaches I drive all have toilets). Perhaps it's time to pull out that old RTA reply and send them a copy and ask what is the outcome from them "working on it" over the past 30 years. Don't forget to CC to your local MP (& shadow) - I'm not sure too many of them would accept a workplace devoid of such facilities! If that's not enough, perhaps you could send it to one of those "too much spare time " TV programs like ACA, 4corners, TodayTonight, etc. to make a big issue out of...
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FollowupID: 671532

Reply By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Feb 01, 2010 at 15:32

Monday, Feb 01, 2010 at 15:32
Hmm, those descriptions remind of what you'd only expect to see inundeveloped countries...
AnswerID: 402092

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