A Byproduct / Nasty Repercussion of Over-Regulation ???.

what other thread?

Your entirely correct of course in theory-but try writing a piece of enforceable law along those lines. It would be the subject of more threads here on "ridiculous long-winded laws that are unenforceable".

Not sure if Im younger than you but the responses also sound like typical answers from younger persons.

So whats it to be-I suggest that the P-plater drives at 40kph even if you think he is safer to stop concentrating on his speed and go at 60 while looking around instead.
I'm not sure how the system works but do you have to sign him as completing it satisfactorily? Then don't sign him off til satisfied would be the correct action.

Hi OZT,

One of the things I teach 4WDers is to drive in a "Pre-emptive" manner and not a "Re-active" one. It is the way we should ALL be driving and it would appear that it is a matter that concerns you too.

So many times I see young people, both male and female, shooting along roads and streets at a higher speed that is needed ...... or regulated, apparently their reflexes and the capability of the vehicle are sufficient to avoid any hazards in their way.

What worries me/we/us is that our children are starting to complain about the way people are driving on our roads. Go figure that .... it is something that I/we didn't think would take place.

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.

Young people are irresponsible, not careful enough on the roads and need to behave like their parents.

Now there is a new train of thought!

Ahhh.....School zones......my favourite places.

1: Watch that speedo, a sneaky rosser with a radar gun may be at the end of the line of parked cars.

2: Keep an eye out for Cougars, usually a popular spot to display themselves. A little wink and a nod of approval can work wonders.

3: Check out the display of current model 4bys, from a Jimny to a Hummer and everything in between. Like being at a motor show.

4: Be very aware of cars suddenly pulling out on you. The drivers have adjusted their mirrors, hair fine, make-up great, lipstick straight - off we go.

5: To add to this 10 second stretch of confusion, your usually deep in thought about what to have for smoko - pie, sausage roll or hamburger.

6: There's something else you must keep an eye out when traveling through a school zone but at the moment evades me, never mind.....it cant be that immportant....lol.


Cheers.......Lionel.

Always been of the opinion that if a proper analysis of the road toll including the unintended consequences which incudes accidents cause by increased eye-time off the road and directed towards sign watching , would show that recent over policing using camera based campaigns have increased the overall toll.


Worth noting that - reasearch organizations that seem to study every angle of what causes actual accidents, do not include a study of the unitended consequences.

I blame the bricklayers, always have, always will.

Obviously they are mixing some form of radio emitting device into the mortar of schools and shopping centre's.

The devices emit a signal at the exact frequency for disconnection of a womans brain. From my observation it moslty affects woman, always around schools and shopping centre's.

I'm in the same boat with MissBitchi... Trying my hardest to teach her to be aware of eveything going on around the car, not just the speedo or the car in front...

It pains me too that on numerous occaisions recently I have been witness to acts of blatant stupidity carried out by drivers with P plates, mainly the red ones :-(( They seem to think that once they have thier licence they can then do whatever they want. They've probably allways been like that, it's just that as mine approaches that age I'm more aware of it.

How the hell do we get the message across??

I live 300 metres from a school zone. Over the few years that my kids attended the school ( primary), the number of times I saw near misses, is shocking. People dropping their kids off actually on the crossing or obscuring the crossing by parking inside the exclusion zone was a common occurrence. No standing areas completely ignored etc.
I have politely pointed out this problem to said drivers only to be told in no uncertain terms where to go.The police blitz the area every now and then,getting quite a few scalps,but it doesn't take long for the usual suspects to ignore the rules again.
My kids are now at high school and don't need to use this crossing in particular anymore, but even though they are older now, they have learn't from experience to not take it for granted that a driver has seen them on ANY crossing until the vehicle has stopped.

I'm in the habit of doing 25km/r through the local school zones these days. I've had to stop and throw an errant soccer/footy/tennis ball back over the odd fence or two over the last few years. One was being followed by a completely oblivious to my presence 8 year old.It's amazing how well kids can jump fences!!

You will have to wait until they have children, and let them watch drivers tearing through while they are parked picking up their children.

Our school zones down south are 25 kph. I'd suggest that even if they were fixated on a sign, they would have a lot better chance of dealing with a sudden surprise at 25 kph than they would at 40 kph. The real issue is that it's up to you and those teaching them to 'learn' the little blighters to pay appropriate attention. You can only instruct them.

I was always taught to be cognisant of what was happening well ahead and to think about it. That green light a few hundred metres up the road has been green for a while and will probably change soon so you'll have to brake etc etc. I'm constantly amazed at the amount of drivers who drive no further ahead than the pair of tyres in front of them. No wonder there are so many rear enders.

Hey has anyone noticed how the majority of right lane violators are "P" platers. They won't keep to the left under any circumstances. All young, all displaying brand new 'P' plates and seemingly oblivious to the road rules, the "keep left unless overtaking" one in particular!

Mick

OzTroopy

Ah! the ball across the road...yes...I nearly got cleaned up by a 1948 Buick doing exactly that.

I started driving cars when I was 8 and received my licence when I was 18. There weren't things like P plates where I grew up. Together with me mates, I was a regular hoon when I was able to afford a car. No different from some youngsters of today. But there were less cars around then and we survived a number of crashes, accidents, stupid driving antics and general mayhem.

After being on the road for nearly half a centrury I am very aware of what goes on around me but mistakes still happen and a lapse in concentration saw me alter the exterior panels of the wagon on our rear gate not so long ago.

I agree that we can be so paranoid about speeding fines that we watch the the posted signs intently and that can divert attention from what is going on around us. Some drivers seem tp be unaware of what is going on around them and drive their vehicles as if in a daze. School zones in SA have a 25kmh limit and one has to be very aware of whats going on around you when you drive through them

I suppose the answer lies in more education before a drivers licence is granted and propbaly it would be a good a idea to test older drivers too on a regular interval basis.

Cheers

Verry good original post Oz.

I agree with your thoughts. I taught heaps of guys to drive heavy vehicles and cranes etc years ago and how to avoid or recover from incidents if the worst does occur.

3 years ago a friend was trying to teach his wife to drive - absolutely no success.

I agreed to go for a ride after about 4 months of her being "on the road" as learner.

Discussed a few points what if etc, set up mirrors, be aware of what's behind.

Took off,,, ask the question,,,, what are you going to do at T junction,,, no response. She obviously hadn't planned, ie what lane do I need to be in, at what point do I indicate,,,, where are we going (she had been told where we were headed and was familiar with the route).

I believe this very common these days ie just drive along and engage brain at some stage. 5 P's works for me ie - Prior, Planning, Prevents, Pathetically, Poor, Performance (politically correct you will note,,,lol).

In todays modern world this is how we seem to operate,,, go go go with little though for actions + consequences and when something goes wrong we balme someone/something else.

Pilots used a technique called the "bubble" years ago,,, ie look for possible threats ahead, to the side and behind and I find this works well with driving,,, say look 200-500m ahead,,,, road junctions etc to the side and what's behind at all times,,, with distances adjusted for your speed and condtions on the day.

I belive if this was taught first up we could,,, or just maybe,,, have safer drivers.

Cheers Baz

OzTroopy, good points - perhaps a shift in emphasis from the authorities has encouraged this attitude. A lot of traffic law enforcement is publicised "don't speed or you'll get a fine and lose points" or "wear your seatbelt or you'll get a fine and lose points" or "don't talk on the phone while driving or you'll get a fine and lose points " while it should be "...for the sake of your safety and that of other road users".

Perhaps you could ask them "Why do you think there is a reduced speed limit here?" Is it just to practice driving at different speeds, or test your patience, or give Mr Plod something else to fine you for?!

My Dad always taught me to look under stationary/parked vehicles for the feet of people walking behind them, and rather than just warning me about soccerballs, tried to get me thinking with questions such as "If a soccerball comes onto the road, what do you think might be following it?"

Hey OzTroopy you say "Back when suburban speed limits were 35mph... and ... particularly at drop off and pick up times."

I seem to recall in the days of 35mph there wasn't much if any of being dropped off or being picked up, we all walked to and from school or got a bloody good hiding.

thoughts ?: You are teaching brainless kids ?!
rest assured there are other learner drivers!
I can give you many other examples from other areas where you could make the same points ... just boils down to the mental capacity. Some need dressage and some are actually able to think!
I have a sign at the back of my truck: " Be alert - I brake for animals", and that's not a joke because the majority out there cannot keep a save distance.

Apart from that in general we do not have 50 signs after the school zone! Only school zone end.

have fun
gmd

Hi OzTroopy,
I agree with you.
it's about being aware, having perception and second guessing peoples actions & movements. And just because the sign says 40 doesn't mean you have to do 40 while going through the zone, whether or not there are people there or not
A couple of parents and myself have taken it upon ourselves at our local primary school to be the school zone Nazi's. As unpopular as we are for our out spoken comments to parents and carers that travel too fast or act in a manner that Could injure a child or someone else, we will continue to confront people over their dangerous driving.
As unpopular as we are with some who continue to drive in a manner that will injure someone one day, we are slowing getting through to people.
I realize some will not agree with this method, but our kids are to precious to loose.

What i don't understand is, when the H/way patrol does come, they sit in a location that is highly visible from all four directions, no one gets booked.
I have asked about this apparent act of stupidity and was told it is a deterrent, proactive policing. If the patrol car is visible, no one will speed.
I questioned, shouldn't they conceal them selves to catch more people. so then people will never know if the police are there or not, parked amongst the cars,
And the answer was, "If they see us they don't speed, therefore that lowers the chance of an accident".
I'm still shaking my head at that.

Anyway, The standard of driving has fallen through the floor over the last couple of years, and I'm at a loss.
I guess all I can do is drum it into my kids to be responsible road uses, even though they are few years off from applying for they licenses.

That's just my view of it.
Cheers.

What compounds things these days is that pedestrians, and therefore their children, appear to think that they have primary rights on the roads.

In the days of the 35MPH no one would even consider stepping off the footpath until the way as clear. They would even wait on the footpath at zebra crossing and let you go by if you were close. Courtesy HAH GOOONNNEEE.

This is a habit (not law) that has found its way here the same as Maccas etc etc. Aren't pedestrians supposed to stop at the curb and wait until we stop. Am I also correct in saying that we are still obliged to stop when they get there. Problem is that they just charge out. So what do the kids do. The same as their parents.

What's the solution. Beats me. Thank heavens there aren't any signs like that on the Tanami. Or are there?

At least that is how it "appears" to me.

Phil

Hi Oz,

Great post.

In my line of work, there is a debate raging about whether not allowing kids to experiece risk, assessing those risks and overcoming the hazard is following on to an inability to assess risks in the workforce when they are old enough to join.Thus allowing them to do JSA's ect is next to useless

The boffins have dubbed it "disconection from the enviroment" and comes about by putting our kids in cotton wool (not letting kids do things that may scrape a knee or bruise so they can learn). It is more common in people born after 1980. The computer game revolution has a bit to do with it.


Could this be a reflection on the young people driving mindset as well.

Just a thought.

Cheers Wilko

What is being highlighted here is that many drivers, of all ages, are inattentive when driving and I’m sure we all suffer bouts of this from time-to-time, perhaps some more than others. An inattentive driver is dangerous in any environment, whether it be on the freeway or through the local school zone and whether they are a 16 year old learner driver, or a veteran with 50 years of driving experience.

The log-book system for learner drivers’ gives those ‘instructing’ the opportunity to pass on the important aspects of driving; the skills required to control a vehicle, the need to remain in a vigilant state at all times and, importantly, the responsibility that goes with the privilege of being issued with a licence.

I congratulate those who are of a similar mindset to OzTroopy in being unwilling to ‘sign-off’ a log book if you don’t think the lesson or session has been to an acceptable standard. However, the risk we are exposed to here is this system relies on those instructing to have the ‘required standard’ in the first instance.

Further, anyone with a full-Australian licence can supervise learner drivers in achieving the required log-book hours. That is a major deficiency in the system, and perhaps one step towards ensuring higher driver standards in the future would be to require anyone intending to supervise learner drivers demonstrate, in the very least, they have the required knowledge, experience, mindset, and skills to do so. Otherwise we simply risk passing on the (poor) driving biases of the instructor, whoever that is.

And incumbent in this teaching responsibility is that we ensure those we instruct have a respect for all road rules, regardless of our bias towards them.

There are other steps we could take to ensure better road education, and this could include a greater focus in the school curriculum. Perhaps it should also include re-current training for those who currently hold a licence. Once you have been issued with a licence you have no obligation to demonstrate you retain the ongoing skills, or mindset, to maintain that entitlement. This means you could have a driving career spanning half-a-century or more and not have your driving scrutinised by anyone. I pose the question, ‘in the past 30 years how different are driving conditions, the vehicles we drive, and the driving environment changed, and whether those issued with licences 30 years ago have adequately kept pace with these changes’.

And yes, I acknowledge that EO drivers are amongst the best in the world – however can we be confident that others whom we share the road with meet the standard we seem to be calling for here?

Be safe….The Landy

It's going to get much tighter on the roads and has to as more driver are out there.

I think maybe we will soon, all have transponders or etags of some sort with will keep track of speed zones. I often wonder why there isn't some marking code to show what speed zone you are currently in... maybe colours or patterns.

Re: FollowupID: 674292 Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 19:56

G'Day Hairs ...

Aaah Haahh ... The power of a forum .... A success story ... albeit a small one ... that with luck, may be adopted at other locations.

Some imagery from time to time may be a good thing to ensure the "safety message" is not glossed over as time progresses ... just a thought.

And yes ... the info I sent you was really aimed at older students but at least covered other aspects rather than just ...

" Dont drive faster than the posted speed limit ".


Also would like to take my hat off off to all posters ... who despite, differing opinions and humourous input ....

.... was very good Lionel ...

.... managed to stay on track and get a message / ideas across ... and without the interference of the "modsquad".

To those with learner drivers ... be patient ... but persistant ...

And I liked the "bubble" reference to common sense/attentiveness ... Quirky military nicknames always seem to work well as memory joggers ... SNAFU ... (for those in the know) pretty much sums up my view of todays roads ... lol