Engine oil pre-lube....

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 14, 2010 at 22:11
ThreadID: 76032 Views:4582 Replies:11 FollowUps:12
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Has anybody had any experience with this type of set-up?

pre lube link

I'm thinking of adding one to the Chev, as it only gets fired up about once a week and I worry about the wear that is occuring in those vital seconds between start-up and oil reaching the top end.
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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 14, 2010 at 22:20

Sunday, Feb 14, 2010 at 22:20
Why..?

are you reving the guts out of it at start up..?
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Feb 14, 2010 at 22:50

Sunday, Feb 14, 2010 at 22:50
No, NEVER, EVER would I even consider doing such a nasty thing to ANY engine.

I'm just concerned, after reading numerous internet sites/forums...about the wear that occurs when starting a cold motor. The longer it has been left between start-ups, the worse the situation. On the other hand, an engine that is always running and rarely (or never) allowed to get cold (eg: taxi, prime mover) can be seen to do considerable kilometers between motor rebuilds etc.
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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 14, 2010 at 23:05

Sunday, Feb 14, 2010 at 23:05
"The longer it has been left between start-ups, the worse the situation. On the other hand, an engine that is always running and rarely (or never) allowed to get cold (eg: taxi, prime mover) can be seen to do considerable kilometers between motor rebuilds etc."

Srart it up, get the oil pressure up and drive sedately till all driveline components are at operating temp..it's not just engines, it's all mechanical interface components.

Unless you decide to run a 24hr taxi service,, it's pretty simple your not gunna get the kilometre/hour durabilty that taxi's get... in your 4wd, Falcodore or Hyundai.
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 00:56

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 00:56
Hi Roachie,

I have worked on engines that have used a similar system with an accumulator to provide instant oil pressure to a turbo. Also many large engines like 2000 HP and bigger use an electrically driven oil pump to prime the oil galleries before every startup. In these installations you need to consider items like crankshafts that can weigh a ton or more and if left idle the sheer weight can squeeze the thin film of oil out and allow the crank to rest directly on the bearing metal. On startup without that oil film considerable wear can take place. On smaller engines I don't think a system such as this would provide much extra protection with the possible exception of a turbo which can speed up to quite high revs if someone gives it a boot before the oil pressure has come up. A previous thread discussed "start and go" as opposed to "start and allow some time before going". Personally I don't advocate idling any engine for long periods but always allow some time for oil to start doing it's job.

Cheers Pop
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 01:30

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 01:30
So Bill ya reckon it will make a difference if the engine lasts 500K or 550K?

I don't think you will ever know if it did make a difference over that many Km's and that many years.

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 01:35

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 01:35
Sorry should have added that you never completely loose oil from moving engine parts, Its why the manufactures recommend certain viscosity oils so they always leave a lubricating reside or film on the moving parts ensure the engine suffers minimal wear upon startup.

So long as you don't do as said above, IE rev the crap out of it all will be fine and last for literally ever :-)

Its a bit like Turbo timers, if they were really needed they would be fitted by the manufacturer in the first place.

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Follow Up By: Member - Pesty (SA) - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 08:37

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 08:37
Yep what he said, you have good oil all the time and there will always be enough oil where you need it and there is little strain on any component when you just crank it to idle, and oil pressure comes up in seconds.
Put your money in that account you are using to save for the new toyota.

Pesty
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Follow Up By: Who was that again? (Vic) - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 22:17

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 22:17
Remembering guys that the low sulphur fuels have only been around for the last few years of your engine life. Sulphur has actually had a lubricating function and Pesty, unless you and John have Euro diesels, they were designed for suplhur lubricosity. Your pumps could suffer if nothing else.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 22:27

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 22:27
Hi John
Are we changing the context of the overall discussion??

Fuel injection pumps are not to my knowledge at least lubricated by engine oil which is the system that Roachie is looking at??
Diesel is still an oil in its own right and does maintain a lubricating property.

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Follow Up By: Who was that again? (Vic) - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 22:45

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 22:45
John, I possibly am changing some of the context but I think if you read a little further, you will find that the low sulphur fuel is changing the lubricating property of what we have expected of diesel. Yes, it has a lubricating capacity, but it isn't what it was.

Many pumps expect diesel to lubricate. Some pumps actually will fail if you pump them dry, even our 1980s GM 470 requires diesel lubrication.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 22:48

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 22:48
I, amongst many others, am already adding 2 stroke oil to my diesel to counter the low sulphur diesel. The big Chev seems to run much smoother and a bit quieter than it used to previously.
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Reply By: Dion - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 07:57

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 07:57
I'd prefer, like the diesels I work with to have an electric pump to prelube the engine prior to starting.
Its almost a bit snake-oilish, claim of amazing invention, prelubing engines has been around since Jesus was knee high to a grasshopper.
Using an accumulator in lieu of an electric pump is pulling a long bow as to invention.
This does have one advantage though that it doesn't draw power from the battery, however if the battery is insufficient to crank the engine to start it, but suffucient current to operate the solenoid, you've lost your one shot with the accumulator.
An electric powered pre-lube pump for me.

Cheers,
Dion.
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Reply By: JR - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:45

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:45
VDO make an electric oil pump for doing this, might be simpler and smaller to fit.
Small gear setup - 12v part number 405040001001
I dont know performance specs though

Ive also seen a hand prime type, bit like an old fuel primer, loosen handle and pump till oil pressure registers, re lock handle and start normally

Electric version sounds better to me.
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Follow Up By: JR - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:53

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:53
Have a read of this site, some nice looking gear pumps at the bottom of the page
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 15:50

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 15:50
Thanks for all the replies so far......

I've been thinking (AGAIN!!!! hahaha) and am now wondering how I'd go if I hooked up an air pressure line to my oil pressure? I have a constant supply of air available (25 litre receiver tank always full or close to full @ 100psi). Amongst other things, this goes up to the front under bonnet area where it is connected to an ARB front locker. I was thinking that if I bought another ARB air solenoid switch, "T" off the existing line to the new solenoid switch, then to a regulator valve/gauge Air pressure regulator (set to 30psi or thereabouts), plus a check valave so oil wouldn't go back out of the engine when the pressure wasn't being applied to the line, then the air hose goes on to the fitting I have sandwiched between my primary oil filter and it's housing. This fitting (I bought off ebay), is one of those that has 4 threaded holes, to enable pressure/temp gauges to be mounted.
Oil filter adaptor
I have one of these adaptors fitted already and am only using 1 of the 4 available ports. If I hooked the air up to that, with a momentary contact switch, I could apply 30 psi air pressure into the engine while the glow plugs were doing their business. Doing it this way would mean I wouldn't have to use the pressure system every time I started the engine if I didn't want to.....only when I deemed it desireable (eg: when I knew the engine hadn't been fired up for a week or so).
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Follow Up By: JR - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 18:06

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 18:06
I think these sandwich adapters are too small according to the supplier to fit under many 4x4 filters. I tried the link you gave ages ago for yours but couldnt do any good.
When you pressurize at this point wont air go up passages rather than oil? Keeping in mind cold oil doesnt want to move much.
Air wiill make the issue worse - purging any remaining oil OUT.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 20:08

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 20:08
JR,
Thanks for your thoughts. I didn't want to ramble on too much in the above, but I feel I need to explain a bit more about my current set-up. I have removed my winch and fitted a dual head, remote mounted Amsoil bypass set-up. The 2 filters sit where the winch used to be, in behind the bullbar.

The sandwich plate is right there too and there is always oil in the filters and the oil hoses back to the engine.

My thoughts about the air pressure are that it would only be applied @ no more than 30psi and only applied for a matter of a few seconds....about the same amount of time the glow plugs are warming up. My thoughts are that the air pressure would apply some pressure to the oil in the hose back to the engine and force the oil into the gallerys.

Maybe I am just being a worry-wart.....when I do start my engine, the oil pressure warning light goes off within 2 seconds anyway, so it's not as though it's a huge issue.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Who was that again? (Vic) - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 21:59

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 21:59
Roachie, I had a friend pose that question to me in the past day. With the new 'low sulphur' fuels, and as sulphur was part of the effective lubricant, one can wonder if you need to add some additional form of cylinder or pump lubricant.

Apparently the lubricating capacity of diesel varies according to it's source. Some of the engine manufacturers have been sending out fuel pump warnings to their service people with resultant wear from low sulphur fuels.

Have a look this Australian article but the friend was saying that some sources are suggesting 0.5% two stroke oil as a lubricant. That is, one litre in 200
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 22:30

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 22:30
Roachie you do to much of two different things. :-))

1. Worry

2. Think to much

Your truck is fine and it has enough crap hanging off it now to worry about more crap LOL.

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Reply By: Eric Experience - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 21:27

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 21:27
Roachie.

There is a very easy solution to your problem, most heavy machinery operators pull the stop button while cranking until the oil light goes out. you could do the same by placing a switch in line with your stop solenoid. Eric
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Reply By: Ken65 - Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 21:40

Monday, Feb 15, 2010 at 21:40
Simple fix.

Put a switch in line for the fuel solenoid, this will not allow the engine to start until you activate, when oil pressure light has gone out. As you wind the engine on the starter you can then allow the fuel solenoid to open. If you hide the switch you could use it as a anti theft device. If it has a mechanical stop, hold the stop out then release when oil pressure light has gone out.

Let you imagination run free and you could come up with a latching switch/ solenoid.

If you want to spend some money put in a Murphy gauge where you have to press the override button to allow the engine to fire when the oil pressure builds.

KenC
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Reply By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 16:33

Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 16:33
Gday Roachie
Looks good and sounds good to me.
Murray
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Reply By: Members Paul and Melissa (VIC) - Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 20:17

Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 20:17
if you are worried about yours then what about mine? sometimes it can sit for months without being started. i say just use good oil and filters and all will be good.
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