Is your 4X4 legal?

Submitted: Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 09:43
ThreadID: 77363 Views:9274 Replies:11 FollowUps:22
This Thread has been Archived
Was flicking through a government website and found this. Sure raises a few eye brows concerning the legality of some of the mods on 4X4's.

4WD VEHICLES
Tyres
The outside diameter of the wheel and tyre
combination must be no more than 15 millimetres
over the largest diameter wheel and tyre
combination as specified for the vehicle on the tyre
placard. Increasing tyre size places further stress
on the vehicle’s suspension, steering components
and braking systems. In order to have a larger
size wheel and tyre combination fitted to a vehicle
the owner must engage the services of a qualified
engineer, who may be able to support the increase
in size.
The wheel and tyre combination must not foul on
the body, the suspension or any other part of the
vehicle under any operating conditions. The wheel
and tyre combination must not project beyond the
bodywork when the wheels are in the straight ahead
position and when viewed from above.

Rims
Regulations which
came into effect
on the 3rd September
2009 permit persons to
fi t any rim size, provided
that the overall wheel
size (including tyre) does not increase by more than
15 millimetres over the largest tyre size listed on the
vehicle’s tyre placard.
Refer to Australian Design Rule 42 and Regulation
26 of the Road Traffic (Miscellaneous) Regulations
for further clarification.

Suspension
Any suspension lift over 50 mm (2 inches) in South
Australia requires the following:
• the approval (in report form) from a chartered
professional engineer
• a lane change manoeuvre test procedure carried
out by a chartered professional engineer
• an application to modify a motor vehicle lodged
with the Department of Energy, Transport and
Infrastructure (DTEI).
• an inspection by a Vehicle Inspection Station
mechanic.
Raising a 4WD is not recommended due to the
cornering instability that may result. Often cars
are raised because the owner wants to fit larger
wheels and tyres that would otherwise contact the
mudguards. In these cases the wheels and tyres
may themselves be illegal.

Engine Management System
The engine management system (computer)
of modern vehicles is an integral part of the
emission control system. Re-calibrating the engine
management system by changing the chip or reprogramming
or replacing the unit with an after
market computer, may result in non-compliance with
the emission control Australian Design Rule (ADR)
applicable to the vehicle.
Turbo timers are not to be fitted to vehicles
manufactured on or after 1 January 1972. Australian
Design Rule 25 requires that the normal function of
the engine only occurs when the ignition is in the
‘on’ position.
Any alteration to the manufacturer’s boost pressure
and/or the induction system, including blow off
valves, to passenger vehicles manufactured on or
after 1 July 1976 will not be granted approval, as
compliance with emission control ADR’s cannot be
ensured.
You can view the Australian Design Rules on the
Internet:
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/
design/index.aspx

Protrusions
A protrusion is any object or fitting, not technically
essential to the vehicle, which protrudes from any
part of the vehicle so that it is likely to increase the
risk of bodily injury to any person.
Any object fitted to a vehicle must be designed, built
and fitted to the vehicle in a way that minimises the
risk of injury. This means fishing rod holders, spot
light/s (depending on placement), aerials etc., may
be illegal if they are likely to cause bodily injury in
the event of a collision. See Vehicle Standards 30
and Australian Design Rule 42/00.

Pay Load Weights
The majority of 4WD’s on the Australian market have
a pay load capacity of around 600 kg. When loading
your 4WD you need to take into consideration
what extra items you have added to your vehicle.
Additional items such as bull bars, winches and long
range fuel tanks affect a vehicle’s pay load.
When taking into consideration a vehicle’s pay load,
the owner needs to know the ‘tare weight’ and the
‘gross vehicle mass’. Once these items are known
then the vehicle’s pay load weight can be worked
out. Overloading a vehicle is a serious road safety
risk and can sometimes void vehicle warranty.
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Reply By: Atta Boy Luther - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 09:53

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 09:53
In qld anyway it is illegal to have anything hanging 50mm past your roof gutter . So i have seen boat loaders that are illegal .
AnswerID: 411267

Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh (NSW) - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 10:30

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 10:30
Not only boat loaders, I've often thought that a lot of 4by's that are used as tradesmans vehicles that have roof racks that stick out to the width of the flares on the guards or further were Illegal. I just wonder how many people will actually get pinged for it.
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FollowupID: 681360

Reply By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 10:51

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 10:51
Ever since I started buying my own 4x4s in the 70's .....

My vehicles have got more and more "illegal" every year ... and I do less to them now than I used to.


... a couple of tyre millimeters here ... too much vehicle protection barwork there ... highmount tail lights illegal one year ... but legislated as a requirement in another year ... not too mention the retrofitting of bumperbar tail lights a coupla year ago .... whole thing has just become a joke.

Its a stupid bureaucratic world ... and going by new and changed legislations in recent years ..... transports departments appear to be staffed only by lycra clad bicycle riders and taxi users.


Anybody else get this mind picture when you approach the enquiry desk of a transport department and see the expression of the person behind the counter ????





I'm getting to the point that I will be glad when its time hang up the car keys for the last time.

AnswerID: 411270

Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 12:17

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 12:17
hi oztroopy
would'nt be much fun if we had to stick hard and fast to all the red tape rules theres
enough with-in systems to choke a bull elephant
i think most out there with a 4by have had to fight off the red tape at times to keep breathing
just as well there arent enough staff out on the ground to strickly implement
it all as i think some of the rules need a big rethink in respect to the attachment on 4wds etc
otherwise half the 4wds would be stricly off only
i've never heard of anyone having there tow vehicle and caravan stopped and weighed on the road but a lot of them are well over the legal limits as just one example of how things slip through the loop

but then is'nt life very much what you make it
and make of it

i might add i'm a law abiding citizen but dont go around cracking a whip about what others might or might not be driving as the proverbial will hit their fan sooner or later
cheers i'll know doubt cop some flak over my comments but so be it their entitle to there comments too
cheers
H E
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Reply By: cycadcenter - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 11:39

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 11:39
I think Mark Weber was right about Australia becoming a Nanny state.

As an Australian who has been living in San Diego for the past 25 years it truely frightens me the direction Australia has been heading in that time.

Now that I bought a couple of farms in the Childers area it has really hit home with the white, pink and red land zones, PMAV maps, fertilizer and pesticide regulations and the list goes on.

I looked into bringing a trailer from the USA to Oz and forget about it all the stupid regulations, would have to be rebuilt to Oz regulations with Australian stamped components even though the USA components were far superior to the Australian specs.

It really hit home last trip when I purchased a 20lt drum of Roundup, I wasn't allowed to put it in the back of my Falcon wagon at the supply depot. Had to carry it outside the gate and them put it in the back.

Bruce
AnswerID: 411272

Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 12:41

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 12:41
hi cycadcenter
you say wagon if it's a station wagon then they were only doing it by the laws that abound these chemicals
and with a ute or truck the item has to be carried in special ways as well

do your self a favour and get a copy of the rules regarding these restictions and then you will better understand why retailers are practising the law regarding cartege of such goods

this is australia and i hear what you are saying
things ain't whot they used to be believe me

retailers have now been put in a situation that if they allow you to put the drum of chemical in your vehicle on their premises and they allow you to drive away they can be fined big $sss if your involved in an accident and the chemical is spilt or causes injury to you or otherson the road

they are required to ensure that it is carried in the correct manner as per it's poisons/ toxicity ratings label and the existing cartage regulations cheers i;m not having a go at you just throwing some light on the situation
cheers
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FollowupID: 681368

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 12:57

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 12:57
Heya cycadcenter,

IMHO ... we have become a testbed for whatever bit of drivel the U.N. cooks up.

We now have

protected wilderness ... with no "effective" management,
children with "rights" ... but no responsibilities,
lots of adults with "rights" ... and STILL no "responsibilities",
euro traffic - road and vehicle rules - even vehicle design ... that fail to take into account conditions west of the Great Divide .....

And the list goes .......



Once upon a time ... this country used to SET standards worthy for others to follow .....

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FollowupID: 681369

Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:11

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:11
My two bob’s worth is we should blame the ‘no win, no fee’ litigation lawyers.....

Everyone wants to sue everyone else the moment there is a whiff that something wasn’t quite right, forget common sense, especially if there is a ‘buck’ to be had out of it.

No wonder everyone is looking to protect their ‘bottom’ these days, whether it be the RTA, the chemical retailer, the local council.

Good to see you Troopy.....

Cheers, The Landy
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FollowupID: 681370

Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:12

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:12
....meant to add, we've created our Nanny State by pursuing compensation from others as a result of our misfortunes!

Good weekend to all..
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FollowupID: 681371

Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh (NSW) - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:44

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:44
Hi Landy,
Your last comment is so true. Totally agree with that.

G'day OzTroopy,
Once upon a time we also use to kick butt, not lick it..




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FollowupID: 681373

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 14:06

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 14:06
Heya Landy ...

Been doing a few miles now & then ... and trying to behave on the internet ... which for me means ... less posting




Litigation .... ohhh dont get me started ....


A very cynical reading of new legislations confirms your comments ... of "passing the buck" ( so to speak) ... only too well.

The abolishment of - approved & engineered - suspension mods in favour of the 50mm rule (with all its hidden implications) ..... as attempted in NSW recently is the perfect example.


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FollowupID: 681376

Reply By: Rangiephil - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:24

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:24
Quote As an Australian who has been living in San Diego for the past 25 years it truely frightens me the direction Australia has been heading in that time. Quote

Er I California don't you have to have a yearly emissions check and if the car fails its off the road?

No state in australia currently has an emissions check and I would love to see it come in. The state of the air in the M5 tunnel is unbelievably bad only because the state will not discipline the truckies. Even Saudi Arabia had a yearly check in 1985 . Sellers are free to sell diesel hot ups that increase pollution greatly whereas in the USA they must have CARB approval before sale.

IMHO most of the restrictions are pretty sensible and not enforced enough.

Overloading. Hmm lets all overload our cars. I have seen people doing stupid things. I saw a Paj at El Questro with 3 water and 2 fuel jerries on the roof which of course is legal.LOL.

Protrusions. Can you seriously argue that having rod holders sticking out of the front of the car is a good idea?

Suspension lifts. Who needs over 2 inches lift for normal touring operation? Many of our trackls are torn up so that fire trucks and "normal" 4wds cannot use them by lifted 4WDs with big tyres.

Regards Philip A



AnswerID: 411281

Follow Up By: cycadcenter - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:52

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:52
In California new cars are exempt from emissions checks until they are five years old and then have to be tested every 2 years.

The standards are very lax and the government will kick in for "gross poluters" if you fail.

In 25 years I've never had a car or truck come close to failing the smog test.

In regards to suspension lifts one can buy a 2,4,6,8,or 10" lift on any new truck directly from the dealer with no hassels at all.

To follow up on another point, there was a tread a couple of weeks ago about carrying petrol jerry cans inside a 4WD, and that it was legal, I would certainly rather carry a 20lt of Roundup in a sealed container than 40lts of petrol in jerry cans.

Bruce
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 14:26

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 14:26
Rangiephil

Rules and regulations are fine ... us dumb humans need a modicum of direction.

The issue is really when something like "bullbar rules" ... introduced to stop people having pointy bits on the front, to skewer wayward, blind or self righteous pedestrians ... get used - to effectively cause bullbar design to be no more than shopping trolley protection or a winch mount.

( yes yes .. they may all be strong and well mounted but have a look at the ACTUAL, vehicle / passenger protection afforded by a low top rail, huge headlight opening modern bar ... A main reason for a roobar was to stop skippy coming up the bonnet and joining you in the cab .... now legislation decrees that that is the most likely circumstance to happen.)

.... and then of course theres all those "pointy thing" rules that make having a winch difficult.

Its not the rules ... its how they are twisted and multiplied from their original intended purpose.




We seem to have gone from this ...




to this ...

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FollowupID: 681377

Reply By: Nargun51 - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:24

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 13:24
The funny thing, if everybody had done the “right thing” and behaved in a manner which paid due respect to others, these convoluted laws and regulations would have no need to exist. They only exist because people have committed acts which have resulted in the death, injury or financial loss to another person.

Simple way to solve it would to get rid of the laws and regulations all together, but put the onus and responsibility of any action totally on the individual.

There are enough countries in the world where this model exists where you can draw comparisons

Of course, these are countries where basic human rights are held in total contempt and “justice” is denied except for the very rich, the very powerful or the very influential.

The other way of course is to learn the laws of the land and obey it; if it is a bad law use the democratic system of to have it changed.

PS Landy, isnt this an American model?
Home of the free where freedoms are eroded by litigation?
AnswerID: 411282

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 15:25

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 15:25
Totally agree Nargun51 ........ that a lack of the "right thing" being done has led to all those convoluted laws and regulations.

The interesting thing is ... that increasing numbers failed to do the "right thing" as time went on ... causing new convoluted laws and regulations.

Theres a very simple reason for that ...


A lack of enforcement of existing rules !!!!

e.g. the NSW suspension debacle ....

"hoon" cars and chopped suspension has been something well catered for in regards to proscecution for years i.e.

minimum vehicle heights
engineer approvals .... yada yada yada .....

The powers that be ... just too lazy / pre occupied to deal with it properly ... yet happy to squander resources on additional duplicating rules ????

So when it comes to the "right thing" being done ... Its not just the great unwashed at fault ....


Over the years I have watched ADRs go from well implemented, engineer thought based, common sense rules to nothing more than "reactionary" legislation ....... all because of a lack of enforcement of the originals ... and in some cases - probably lobbying by individuals, too scared to park between a pair of pajeros at a shopping centre.

Again ... suspension ....

Minimum vehicle heights .... obstacle clearance affecting vehicle handling.
(goota laff at hot utes with lowered suspension/22"rims covered by a rubber band negotiating the Newell Highway ... let alone a gravel road)
Oversize wheels/backspacers .... more wear & tear on drivetrain with a possible premature failure causing an accident or death.
Extended spring hangers ... allow for more sideways twisting/failure of the suspension mounts at high speed cornering.

............. and all the rest of the stuff that has been around for years.

Laws of the land need to be easily and readily identified by the population .... if adherance to the rules is more important than the proscecution.

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FollowupID: 681390

Follow Up By: Nargun51 - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 16:47

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 16:47
The whole problem lies with the Magna Carta; if only King John had paid a little bit more attention to the desires of the nobility, things would have been so much easier.

Australia’s legal system is meant to be fair and transparent and apply to everybody equally. (I can hear the snorts of derision…but I did say meant).

The problem is trying to create legislation that applies equally to everybody.

To use your example of bullbars

A bullbar in Bourke Street is different than a bullbar in Bourke. (I know they’re different states and let’s blame the British for that too)

In both places it is a means of offering protection against the damage of animal strikes.

The animals are different. A goat in Bourke doesn’t have the same rights under Law as a kid in Bourke Street

How do you legislate to cater for all circumstances?

The more legislation attempts to cater for different needs, the more unworkable it becomes. (Ever listen to lawyers argue for an hour over whether ‘shall’ means ‘may’ in the context of one clause? Riveting and expensive stuff!)

You either leave gaps in the legislation to cater for different circumstances but this may mean that it can be applied inequitably. If this can occur, the legislation itself may be illegal or it opens the door for more legal challenges

The law is an Ass, but it’s all we’ve got.

Come up with something that is workable, applies equally to everybody and protects everybody equally and get in your local MP’s and the Minister’s ears and urge them to get it into law. Do so and the whole 4WD community will applaud you

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Follow Up By: Fab72 - Friday, Apr 02, 2010 at 08:18

Friday, Apr 02, 2010 at 08:18
Nargun....so true regarding bullbars.

I can see the road side signs now....."Please stop and drop your bull dust here...and while you're at it, please remove your bullbar prior to entering the CBD".
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FollowupID: 681461

Reply By: DIO - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 14:31

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 14:31
Here we go again. Time for the 'wallys' to start ranting and raving about authority and control. Yep it's your right to have an opinion as it is mine.

Let's get back to 'basics'.

The rules and regulations are in place in order to provide a safe and controlled environment for ALL motorists and other members of the public.

ADR (Australian Design Rules) have been developed over many years with a view to providing motorists with safe and correctly designed and engineered vehicles.

Yes you or someone else might know 'better' when it comes to modifying your vehicle(s), I'm sure that's fine with the authorities so long as it is APPROVED by the relevant body.

With the rapid changes in State Legislation (all States) regarding road safety, driver behaviour, vehicle road worthiness etc and repeated calls from the wider community for authorities (Police etc) to do something to manage, control, enforce and change errant behaviour, it was only a matter of time before stricter/stronger legislation and rules be introduced. Whose fault is that?

The Australian Road Rules are one such fairly recent introduction along with ever increasing changes and amendments to ADR's (Australian Design Rules).

Anyone who has been a member of an (any) auto club (including 4 wheel drive), forum, discussion groups or read any motor magazines etc would have to be blind, deaf and dumb (I mean no respect to anyone) to have not realised that over recent years there has been an up-welling of concern and repeated calls from within the community for greater restraint by drivers/operators of ALL motor vehicles engaged in all activities related to driving on a road.

I suggest that for those knockers (yes you are certainly entitled to your opinion(s)) who are having difficulty coping with these changes and more rigid enforcement by authorities (Police etc) get used to the idea as I can predict that there will be even greater restrictions placed on activities that cause the community concern and rattle the cages of the Politicians who in turn will enact even more stringent legislation. In plain language, it's going to get a lot harder for the ignorant and stupid before there are ever any concessions.

Continued use of unroadworthy and illegally modified vehicles, flagrant abuse and non-compliance with driving rules and regulations will only garner even greater efforts by enforcement officers (Police and others).

As for speed detection devices, perhaps they do raise a lot of revenue, but that's good by my standards as I'm sure the increased money raised has resulted in lowering of other taxes (land, payroll etc etc). For those who are frequently caught by such devices it won't matter how much you whinge and moan as it will never change the policy on enforcement of road rules and detection of offenders. I suggest that before long the majority of States will be introducing technology that will enable them to accurately identify the driver(s) of offending vehicles. Yes photograph from the front. The opportunity to have someone else 'accept' any related demerit points will be a thing of the past.

Strange as it may seem I have never heard of anyone that hasn't been apprehended by authorities for committing any driving or vehicle related offences, complaining about cameras, revenue collection, double demerit points, loss of licences, vehicles impounded etc etc.

Remember, any (ANY) modification(s), unless approved to ADR standards, that change/alter/modify any aspect of your vehicle from the ADR standards/requirements that existed at the time of manufacture of your vehicle are ILLEGAL.

If you can't comply with 'the rules' get over it and get used to walking more as it will only be a matter of time before you or your vehicle(s) will be banned from the roads.

Have a happy and safe Easter wherever you are and whatever you do.
AnswerID: 411290

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 14:48

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 14:48
hmmmmmm......

Actually all the posts in the thread look pretty much "middle of the road" compared to YOUR pro-rule / pro-regulation comments ...
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 16:58

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 16:58
ADRs do not govern light motor vehicle modiifcations, a point often misunderstood in this forum.

Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989 (the Act) - The Act enables the Australian Government to establish nationally uniform standards for road vehicles when they are first supplied to the market in Australia. The Act applies to such vehicles whether they are manufactured in Australia or are imported as new or second hand vehicles.

ADRs come under Federal Government jurisdiction and modifications to vehicles under State Government jurisdiction.

I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong......

Cheers
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FollowupID: 681400

Follow Up By: ob - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 17:46

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 17:46
I believe you are correct about ADR regulations ensuring vehicles brought into Australia conform to certain guidlines. What seems to cause much confusion is allowing states to have differing modification regulations where a vehicle and possibly caravan or whatever being legal at point of departure but controvening standards after crossing borders.

ob
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Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 15:52

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 15:52
While we may whinge about these rules most of them are there to protect us
from accident or injury. The effectiveness may be debateable. I doubt many of us will incur the wrath of the law over lifts & protrusions etc, or ,at worst cop a
fine. The thing that may cause you immense grief is the "overweight" issue.
Once again, unlikely if you dont attract attention, but have an accident & you
may pay bigtime. Leaving out the obvious death & injury issues, the problem is
voiding your insurance. Overload either your car or van & your claim may be
refused. BIL rolled his van & 4by...insured by one of the major companies,
both weighed at nearest weighbridge. Car was 50kg under limit, van 120 KG over.
First action....dont bother claiming.... after much discussion, insurer agreed to
reduced claim (Both were write offs). Company quoted very good record of client
as only reason claim was not refused, & noted they had waived the 160KG they
could have added for the occupants. So do be careful. This was a $60k claim,
payout reduced to $40k. Imagine your disposition if your $100k plus rig is
written off with no cover. Company also indicated there may be serious issues re
any subsequent injury/3rd party claims arising from operating an illegal vehicle
even with the compulsory insurance cover.
I would estimate that maybe 20% of travellers may fall into this category.
Are you one of them ?...........oldbaz.
AnswerID: 411299

Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 19:36

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 19:36
Old baz I think you may have it a***about, more like 80% of travellers are over and 20% are under GVM.
Peter
1996 Oka Motorhome

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FollowupID: 681409

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Apr 02, 2010 at 10:29

Friday, Apr 02, 2010 at 10:29
That's quite right Peter. Take a showroom Nissan Patrol for example (or most other Jap 4x4s). The payload is about 600kg in most cases.
Fuel up with 125 litres of diesel and there's 100kg accounted for.
5 occupants (as is the case with my clan), say 300kg
Fridge full of food etc: 50kg
Camper trailer (ball weight @ 10% of total trailer weight): 120kg

There's 570kg and I haven't even added a bullbar, roof rack, extra spare tyre, steel rear bar with twin swing out tyres, extra fuel clothes, long range tanks and LPG infusion..... the list goes on.

Anybody who owns a Jap 4x4 and uses it as intended (for towing and touring) is highly likely to over the GVM.

That is why I seriously looked at upgrading to an Oka or other 4x4 small truck; but the family wouldn't come at it.

Roachie
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FollowupID: 681469

Reply By: Brian Purdue - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 16:36

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 16:36
The "on-going" legislation is the result of abuse. A little bit here and a little bit there until it adds up to a BIG bit.
That is the problem that we have - and it is not just by 4bys- it is about us in general. We take until there is some trouble and then grizzle like "$htt becose some idiot has made it hard for us."
A bit of sense is worth 24 laws to keep us in line.
AnswerID: 411305

Reply By: briann532 - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 18:25

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 18:25
UUUUMMMMM Guys, I think its probably about time I let you in on a little secret.

The world has gone mad!!!

Perhaps you didn't get the email???

(Just a note to prove my complete lack of sanity.)
I live in NSW
I drive a 4wd
I work as an electrician doing live service work
I'm married
I have children
My mother in law is alive
I work

I pretty much have nothing going for me......................
Welcome to the nanny state of New South bend over!!!

Cheers, I'm off to medicate on some Beer.
Oh did I mention I'm an alco too. I enjoy more than 1 standard drink a decade!!!
AnswerID: 411319

Reply By: Ianw - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 20:06

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 20:06
Now the Dicks in Vic want to lower the country roads speed limit to 90Ks !!
"It will lower the road toll" says Ken Lay, the roads top cop. BS I say. For P Platers I would agree, as the city kids go to the country to "legally speed" at 100ks and can't handle it. They are not trained to react at the speed necessary to control a vehicle at these "speeds". At home they learn to control a car at 60 ks max !!! Maybe we should have a "country driver license" for us and limit city drivers to 90ks on our roads. We are limited to 60/50/40 ks on their roads !! And so we should be !! We don't want to go any faster than that !!

Ian
AnswerID: 411332

Follow Up By: Angler - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 23:15

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 23:15
I must admit I agree with a proposed drop in speed limits to 90Kph. Several benefits would result from the limit being lowered.

1 Probable drop in road fatalities, and maybe major crashes.
2. Dramatic drop in fuel use. (up to 30% savings)
3. Dramatic increase in fines collected by governments.

All a plus

Elapsed time between towns would vary marginally.
I have proved this many time whilst towing a van and traveling at around 90Kph, I seem to end up alongside the goons who do well over the speed limit when I hit the next town.
I personally feel I would be more relaxed at the end of the drive.

OK I am ready for the tirades to come.


Pooley
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FollowupID: 681446

Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 23:40

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 23:40
I doubt no 1, As a lot of fatalities are drivers doing well over the speed limit. When we lived at Appin just south of Campbelltown NSW the speed limit was 100k after numerous fatals of drivers doing well over 100ks they dropped the speed limit to 90ks and the fatal accidents keep happening on that road because some drivers are still doing well over the 100k mark. You could drop the speed limit to 60ks and some idiot will still try to do over 100ks.
Cheers Dave..
GU RULES!!

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FollowupID: 681447

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 23:41

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 23:41
No need for tirades ....

Just the understanding that the govt needs to flatten all the roads so that all the hills are no problem in maintaining a decent average lower speed for ALL vehicles .... and straighten them so there is miles of overtaking area ..... Or better still ... build 4 lanes roads everywhere.

Lower uphill speed ... lower gear ... higher revs ... more fuel ....

All fun huh ???
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FollowupID: 681448

Follow Up By: Member - Old Girl (QLD) - Friday, Apr 02, 2010 at 00:45

Friday, Apr 02, 2010 at 00:45
Dropping the speed limit is not going to stop these idiots from excessive speeding and killing other people. Jail term for drink drivers jail term for accidents that are proved to be speed related. Jail term for under 21 year olds that get caught for excessive speeding. Cars squashed for hooning. Community service too, the buggers need to be punished hard because they are too stupid to learn the easy way.
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FollowupID: 681455

Reply By: Davo_60 - Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 23:16

Thursday, Apr 01, 2010 at 23:16
Yep, I'd say it is. Mods include - Polyairbags and drawers. Modifications are overrated in my opinion and watching the new gear getting around with every mod available in the latest catalogue makes for amusing viewing.

Dave
AnswerID: 411364

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