Hilux vs Hilux Surf vs Patrol for newbie
Submitted: Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 16:06
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DaDutchman
G'day all,
I'm looking for a 4WD for some camping and to carry
tools on occasion. Now for the big question, what to get....? I know there is Nissan and Toyota people, with pros and cons for both. Here my dilemma:
I have about $20.000 to spend, give or take $2000.
So from what I've seen I can buy either an early 2000's Hilux or Patrol. The 5L engine on the lux is too sluggish for my liking, so it'd have to be a 1KZ (KZN165R), pretty hard to get a decent one under $20.000 with less than 200.000 km's. If something would break (unless bought with warranty from a dealer) I'd be stuffed. Wouldn't have another 3 - 4 grand for major repairs.
Or get a GU Patrol, late 1990's or early 2000's. The 2.8TD too is a bit slow off the mark and big and heavy compared to a Lux. The 3.0TD (Grenate) seems better.....but what if it goes BOOM!? Not enough money to get it fixed, and Nissan doesn't help out any more from what they've told me.
A Surf then? Mid 1990's with the 3.0TD 1KZ engiine, 10 - 12 grand, 8 left in case of trouble. Most surfs will have similar km's as the Luxes and Patrol's as they often are not the primary vehicle, but about 6 years older.....
Don't even want to go to a Discovery or Mitsi. Anyone got any new insights on what to pick? I'm tending to Surf (similar km's but cheaper but older) as I find the risk of a 3.0 GU Patrol a bit scary....
Any help would be appreciated....
Reply By: Nutta - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 16:30
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 16:30
Other than what you've listed aren't the 3.0l diesel toyotas known for cracking heads?
I'm not sure it could be the older ones.
Cheers Wayne
AnswerID:
413554
Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 17:53
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 17:53
G'day Wayne,
The cracking heads were the pre 1993 2.4 TD engines..... Not touching them...
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Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 21:56
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 21:56
They only crack heads in the 1kz cause the viscous coupling on the fan bleep s itself and people dont wach guages. The 2.4 even though turbo is gutless, personally I wouldnt touch a surf, there not made for aussie conditions, pop the bonnet and the first thing you notice will be the smaller radiator to the hiluxs/4 runners sold here for Australia, they wont handle the heat and especially if you intend towing, they are rust buckets due to the salts used overseas, most of the klms on them have been wound back before hitting australia as there is no record of them, Parts arnt to bad to get these days as their is plenty of them sitting in wrecking yards, have you looked at a rodeo ?? Regards Steve
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Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 22:03
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 22:03
Won't touch a Holden for religious reasons ;-) I've been told the 1KZ is generally a very good engine (can be found in plenty of Luxes), as for wound back km's that could be true, rust I haven't noticed yet at the ones I've seen so far, spare parts drama is a myth I believe, many Lux and Prado parts fit, and as said, many at wreckers (mainly 2.4's). After market trans cooler would fix the main 1KZ Surf problem. Thought of a BT50, but they're too pricey and the ones I've driven haven't impressed on reliability... Thanks for your thoughts!
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 22:18
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 22:18
Not sure your reasons about not touching holdens your business ?? I love the toyotas but the rodeos are a bloody great 4wd and have very little issues and for 20g's will buy you a low k one later model then hilux, great on fuel 8/9L per 100 I only got the prado as it come at the write price but my next vehicle on the list was a rodeo, dont write off the mitsis as the triton is a good 4wd as
well, obviously depends on your needs but I will never buy a non turbo diesel again, too sluggish for every day driving like anything once you get used to it you dont want to go back, I found that after having the lux while it was a fantastic vehicle and gave me no trouble towing was a killer. Dont forget the rodeo is a isuzu. Regards Steve
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 22:23
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 22:23
Isuzu...hmmm, they do make a ripper diesel I've read.... But the rest is still (only) a Holden. Aussie or cheap Asian made like some of the Craptiva's? (oops, did I misspell that?). Have driven only 1 non turbo, but like your advice, I'll stick to turbo's only...
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Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 22:51
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 22:51
Where do you think hilux's are made ?? Not in japan I can assure you. The early ones like myn were, the later ones with the D4D in them (current shape) are made in Thailand (not the model your looking at I know), still a good vehicle but personally dont think there as strong as the older ones, Right up untill the current shape they were made in Japan. I think in about 05/06 the rodeo also become Thailand built prior to that they were made in Japan, but like the hilux's and no doubt other brands they still use their own parts eg toyota still use their own engines, rodeo, colorado, still use Isuzu engines, Captivos or as you spelt it craptivo, daawoooo, barina, cruze, epica all dawoo crap and I wouldnt touch one, the earlier barina's (jap made), were a suzuki, great car, holden drover was a suk, etc, hard to know what your buying these days LOL unless you know a bit about motor vehicles. But serously if you want a late model 4wd, good on fuel, reliable, comfortable the rodeo is a great vehicle, the older 2.8T/D's were a bit noisy, reved hard at freeway speeds 3400rpm at 110k but the later model with the bigger motor while still rattly outside resonably quit inside and reved a lot lower at freeway speeds. All the best with your choice and sure you will find one for your needs and $$ available. Regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 23:09
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 23:09
Cheers Steve,
Just had a look on carsales... Probably a $5000 difference to the Luxes, less to the Patrol... Hmmm, doesn't make things easier....
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Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Sunday, May 02, 2010 at 23:11
Sunday, May 02, 2010 at 23:11
"Right up untill the current shape they were made in Japan."
My 2001 KZN165R Hilux was made in Thailand.
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Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Monday, May 03, 2010 at 18:10
Monday, May 03, 2010 at 18:10
Red book specs, as per website,
Series KZN165R
Body Utility
No. Doors 2
Seat Capacity 3
Transmission Manual
Gear Location Floor
Drive 4X4
Fuel Type Diesel
Release Year 2001
VIN Number JT731LNG7########
Country of origin JAPAN
Maybe red book have it wrong ???
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Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Monday, May 03, 2010 at 18:20
Monday, May 03, 2010 at 18:20
Wouldn't be surprised! They get a few things wrong.... like realistic prices!!!!
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Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Monday, May 03, 2010 at 18:58
Monday, May 03, 2010 at 18:58
Yes I find them way out either way with their prices, depends on the demand for different vehicles, 80 series 95/97 turbo diesel auto will fetch upto towards the 30k mark, try and find one ?? regards Steve M
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Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Monday, May 03, 2010 at 19:46
Monday, May 03, 2010 at 19:46
All I know is when I go to Toyota parts and say 2001 KZN165R he pulls out a parts book labelled "Thailand built Hilux"
And my VIN is JTFD....
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 16:31
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 16:31
I see them as quite different types of car Dutchman so you may be able to refine your needs further.
The Patrol being much more stable and stronger in the driveline and its hard to go past an all coil live axle vehicle.
In your post you say the 5L Lux engine might be a bit slow - you may have meant the smaller engine but either way very little can match the 4800 patrol in terms of torque and performance.
The 2001 versions are now into the $20,000 price range and perceived as not as desirable because of the thirsty petrol engine but reasonable fuel consumption can be achieved and the are no more expensive to run than the diesels when total life cycle cost is considered.
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Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 17:59
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 17:59
Hi Robin,
My needs are not in full on 4WD work (yet). The Patrol is probably overkill....
I did drive a 5L Hilux and wasn't impressed. Unless it was a bad example (1999 model, 221.000 km's) it just didn't have the go to be a day to day car as
well. I might be lucky enough to get a job with car provided, but in case I don't the 4WD might be the daily drive as
well.....
Just drove a 2001 GU 3.0 TD, and is much better to drive than the 2.8TD (6cyl) but I can't help scarily waiting for BOOM!!! It has done 235.000 km's but I couldn't afford it to go BOOM after paying $16500..... New or used engine would easily be $10.000 (if I'm correct).
Cheers
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 20:05
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 20:05
According to Redbook the patrols very similar in price around that era, only $2K difference between the 3.0 and 4.8.
Doesnt buy alot of fuel considering it seems to be about 50%+ more.
Person who bought them near new gained the benefit/hit from the purchase price difference.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 20:51
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 20:51
Hi Fish
I think the idea was to save on engine repairs.
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 21:35
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 21:35
3L Diesel probable $10,000 rebuild, 4.8 Petrol, no risk.
No brianer I'd reckon. Simple financial risk assessment.
Jim.
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Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 21:38
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 21:38
4.8 no risk? How so? I'd be towing a trailer with petrol behind me to keep me going though wouldn't I? Is this the infamous Diesel vs Petrol issue?
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Reply By: CJ - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 18:23
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 18:23
Hi
I looked at a Surf once... until someone advised me to
check insurance
I thought no problem, same as 4Runner, but to my surprise the insurance premium was FOUR TIMES as much. To do with it being an import
Worth taking into account in your budgets
CJ
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 19:13
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 19:13
Good one to think of.... never gave it much thought.... Will
check! Cheers!
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Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 19:44
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 19:44
RACV premium for me online....
1995 Surf (KZN130) : $1360
1999 Hilux (KZN165R) : $1150
2001 Patrol (3.0 TD DX) : $1150
Bit of difference....but not massive
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 06:42
Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 06:42
Our two Isuzu MU imports cost $880 and that is for both, through Australian 4WD Insurance (DGA brokers
Melbourne)
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Reply By: Member - Barry H (WA) - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 19:11
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 19:11
Hi DaDutchman,
I owned a Hilux Surf for over 7 years and it never missed a beat.
I travelled over 140K, took it to some pretty special
places and it never let me down once.
As far as insurance is concerned, it cost me $510 per annum through SGIO here in WA.
The only problem with the truck was the turbo charger was a bit sluggish at times, but apart from that no real problems to speak of.
Regards
Barry H
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 19:19
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 19:19
at what mileage did you buy it? 3.0 or 2.4?
The inside of the surf beats the lux too! Nothing luxe about the Lux!
Patrol and surf are much more alike in that case! Surf will be more economical on fuel, patrol better off road....
MY HEAD IS SPINNING!!!!
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Reply By: gbc - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 20:45
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 20:45
If it was my budget, I'd be looking hard at a v6 lux, or a petrol patrol. Drive your dollar a whole lot further in that market if you leave the flogged diesels out of the equation and buy a shopping trolley that's hardly done any work.
AND you can afford to fix them.
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Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 20:53
Monday, Apr 19, 2010 at 20:53
I could afford to buy and fix them....but drive them? 15 - 20 lt/ 100 km's? Gas conversion...? I don't know, just don't like the thought of a petrol 4WD...
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Follow Up By: gbc - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 08:47
Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 08:47
None of the diesels you've mentioned will do better than about 11 per hundred (best case), and all of them need an oil change every 5 thou. The $$ difference isn't that much all told.
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Follow Up By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 09:54
Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 09:54
The last 2003 V6 petrol SR5 dual cab hilux I had used 11.1 litres per hunderd km. The most economical speed was 105kph used more at 100 and also at 110.
The biggest problem with the earlier dual cabs is the size of the standard fuel tank (around 65 litres)
Cheers
Dave
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Reply By: trainslux - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 08:21
Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 08:21
Get the hilux, deal with your issues regarding the slowness of them.
They will get you to where you have to go every time, and when offroad in low range, they are fine, and will go almost anywhere.
Great fuel burn too. 10 to 11 lts/100kms.
Trains
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Follow Up By: Member - Porl - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:36
Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:36
I got a 5LE and you can get a chip for that model, makes a difference.
Though I've heard the roof racks you can get for the 5L are sensational value :0) ...
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Reply By: DaDutchman - Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 21:28
Tuesday, Apr 20, 2010 at 21:28
Hmmm, near new (2007) Mazda BT-50's for just a tat over $20.000, with only 20 - 40 k on it.... Have driven them before and even with standard tyres quite capable. Deep sand proved an issue, but 31" tyres should help.... I know it's not a Hilux, but pretty worry free motoring for quite a while, cheap Ford
ranger parts, good economy, no BOOM! to worry about, and plenty of get-go..... Might be on a winner here... Anyone own one?
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Follow Up By: DaDutchman - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 09:19
Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 09:19
Just found out some of the 3.0 DiTD are only 2WD...
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Reply By: DaDutchman - Sunday, May 02, 2010 at 22:42
Sunday, May 02, 2010 at 22:42
And finally...
Flying to Brissy to
check a 1999 Nissan Patrol 4.5, put it on gas and off I go.
Test drove a few gas converted Patrols and didn't mind it at all! So thanks to those advocating for the petties, wouldn't even have bothered if it wouldn't have been for the tips! Financially makes more sense....
Now just hope it's a good one and I'll have a great trip back to
Melbourne!!!!
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