Lending equipment

Submitted: Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 16:37

ThreadID: 7892 Views:1826 Replies:14 FollowUps:11

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Member - Ross

Hi all

A query on your general thoughts on the ethics of offering the use of your recovery equipment to others.

If it gets destroyed in the process I would have thought the honourable thing to do would be to offer to replace same.

On a recent trip to Fraser we came upon a tour bus on a back track well and truly stuck on a fallen tree. Of course we offered our assistance .. doesn't everyone?

Eventually the driver decided to take us up on our offer and in the process managed to destroy an almost new exhaust jack. His only response was to nonchalantly suggest we take it up with the office.

This we did on our return via email and even included a few photos. That was a few weeks ago and to date we have heard jack bleep from them.

At this stage the company shall remain nameless but the photos are there to tell the storey.

Surely the moral of this is not to stand back, shrug your shoulders and say ... too bad mate.Rosco

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Reply By: landie - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 16:46

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 16:46

Good on you for helping - ablsolutely the right thing to do. Now just write the story for a fourbie magazine and send them a copy, photos and all.

AnswerID: 34177

Reply By: Kev - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 17:00

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 17:00

Hi Ross,
I am a long time visitor to Fraser and the general rule of thumb is that if you don't have your own recovery gear you don't get assistance. Bearing in mind that snatch straps and other material rescue equipment has a limited life span.
Every local is more than willing to lend vehicle assistance, (nothing better that to be able to say that your Nissan pulled out a Tojo) but recovery gear is another matter.
I probably know the company you are referring to if it was on the tracks in the middle of the island. You may have to take action to recover your costs.

AnswerID: 34179

Reply By: chopper - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 17:07

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 17:07

Don't go crook at the driver, those guys earn their money, they have ridiculous timetables, and get paid very little.

If it's the company i'm thinking about, try talking to someone in the service area, as in, in the bus yards. You'll find that he two 'Island based' companies will be pretty good.

If it was one of the buses that come out of Noosa or the sunshine coast then you can just kiss it goodbye.

Good luck

AnswerID: 34180

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 17:13

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 17:13

I agree Dont lend. If someone screws your $80 snatch strap, Im betting they dont have $80 in their wallet to replace yours when they are in the bush

Everyone should have the bare essentials.. if they dont drink their beer.

Call the company, dont email them. If that fails, then proudly spread their name, photos, etc across the internet, and post them URLs showing them how fast the word can spread. Or maybe threaten them with this first... then do it.. might get you somewhere.

AnswerID: 34183

Reply By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 17:29

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 17:29

Rosco this one is a bit tricky . A few years ago we were on a beach and there was this Hilux trying to pull a 100 sereis out of the sand and the poor guy burnt his clutch out . We turned up and suggested to the 100s driver to drop his tyre pressures down . But he was a bit woried because he didnt have a trye gauge or compresser any way he did and amazingly poped out of the bog. And just kept driving of the beach without a thanks or any thing.The poor guy in the hilux was stuffed so we pulled him off the beach and he had to get the NRMA to tow him back to the nearest town that was about 30k away .It Was going to cost the poor guy a heap.
All the best
Eric
4x4 tag along adventuresCape York Connections

AnswerID: 34189

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 19:46

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 19:46

I would have hunted dwon the 100 series and burnt it out. inconsiderate piece of bleep .

My dads theory on the world is right.. "you dont help ANYONE.."

FollowupID: 24627

Follow Up By: Rhubarb - Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 09:55

Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 09:55

I think the right and honourable thing to do would have been to pay up at least half the cost of guys new clutch, as you don't know whether it was about to go anyway or what.

As for not helping anyone, what a bleep world that would be.

FollowupID: 24657

Follow Up By: Eric from Cape York Connections - Sunday, Oct 19, 2003 at 09:53

Sunday, Oct 19, 2003 at 09:53

Rhubarb your right the right thing is to help I couldnt go past without lending some sort of help even its only verbale in a nice way.
All the best
EricCape York Connections

FollowupID: 24724

Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 18:34

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 18:34

"It is better to give than to lend, and it costs about the same."

Hooroo...

AnswerID: 34195

Reply By: Member - Alex B - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 18:43

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 18:43

G'day Ross,
As suggested ..Call the company and ask for the owner, then explain how you saved his bloke and the clients day and that all you would like is gear replaced. If he tells you to get stuffed say “well that’s a real shame because I have an appointment with a journo form the local paper…which I was going to cancel, had you been forthcoming with the money, but know I going to meet with them and do an article on the ethics’ of tourism operators complete with photos, the story and your final comment, and there’s an Occupational Health & Safety angel they want to cover about tour operators sending employees and clients out without the right safety equipment.

Then say “well what’s it’s going to be –cash or cheque?”

And if they still say no – Ring the paper ..they’ll love it!!

Cheers
Alex

AnswerID: 34197

Reply By: Willie - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 19:38

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 19:38

Ross,

Bad news mate....you made the offer of assistance which did not work out. You cannot blame the bus driver or the tour company to compensate your generosity.
You will have to take it on the chin and wear it.

I tried to 'move' a Denning Coach once by parking against a tree and using my Warn winch on a snatchblock. As soon as I saw that it was futile I left them to their own devices. On Fraser an overseas toruist was bogged in a rental Troopy. I checked his tyre pressure which was 50psi. Told him to drop his tyre pressures. He complained that if he did so he would not be able to reinflate the tyres as he had no pump. I said 'Its your choice' and left him to it. I am not unwilling to help and to give advice but I am not going to destroy my winch or other recovery equipment for someone else's folly.
Cheers,
Willie

Never a dull moment

AnswerID: 34203

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 19:50

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 19:50

" you made the offer of assistance which did not work out."
The same as any of us would expect? Firs

"You cannot blame the bus driver or the tour company to compensate your generosity."
Id disagree.. You were helping them,what would you do if it was the desert? just hang the old brown eye out the window as ya go past? you have to offer to help in some situations, and yea I suppose the first thing I'd say now is "if things break your paying?" take 40 photos of the situation and then go with it.

FollowupID: 24628

Follow Up By: Willie - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 20:22

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 20:22

Truckster,
Read my last sentence again which is self explanatory.

But that aside. It does not matter where it is or what the situation is. You have to explain your situation. It is no use getting aggrieved after the fact and then trying to wring compensation out of the person you have been trying to help. It is not worth the aggro. Every situation you come across is different. I lent a bloke a shovel once as he was bogged in the mud. He threw it back at me as I would not use my winch to get him out of his mess.

If things break you're paying??? You've got Buckleys..........
Cheers,
Willie

Never a dull moment

FollowupID: 24631

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 22:45

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 22:45

If things break you're paying??? You've got Buckleys..........

Then I drive off... bleep em. like the bloke in the othe rstory that blew up his clutch, and the 100 took off didnt even offer to help him..

FollowupID: 24642

Reply By: Member - Ross - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 22:19

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 22:19

Thanks one and all for your interesting and varied responses.

I believe, in consideration of the foregoing that further pursuit of the matter would be a fruitless exercise and as I think it was the old bard said... vexatious to the soul.

Suffice to say I am of the opinion the "company" concerned (with green and orange livery) are nought but a bunch ofbleeps and not worth my further aggravation and angst.

Unfortunately I will, in the future, avoid offering my assistance to all buses, notwithstanding the comments about the drivers which I fully understand.

That should not be taken to include hapless poor lost souls such as myself who, for reasons not known to themselves are unable to proceed in a forward motion. Especially those with an unusual bumper sticker displaying a map of Oz.Rosco

AnswerID: 34221

Follow Up By: Member - Ross - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 22:22

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 22:22

I see the system has some kind of filter ... take "ofbleeps" to read ar***olesRosco

FollowupID: 24641

Reply By: ross - Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 02:56

Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 02:56

This deserves one more post! What if you are the one that is stuck and someone stops and offers a pull with their 20 yo 500000 klm vehicle and blows a gearbox,should or would you fix it ?

AnswerID: 34240

Follow Up By: Member - Ross - Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 08:01

Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 08:01

In that instance I would thank the geriatric but suggest it would be better to doze in the sun :-}Rosco

FollowupID: 24654

Follow Up By: Willie - Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 16:06

Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 16:06

ross....A 20 yo 500,000klm gearbox would have been built with plenty of strenght in it and is unlikeky to blow up.

Ross....hope you remember those words when you are a geriatric. But I agree 'tis better to doze in the sun :-)

Willie

Never a dull moment

FollowupID: 24679

Reply By: Rhubarb - Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 10:01

Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 10:01

You did the right thing trying to help.

If you really want to be compensated then follow previous advice.

I'd just put it down to exprience - next time you'll know that exhaust jacks don't work well with buses!

AnswerID: 34257

Follow Up By: Phil G - Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 21:49

Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 at 21:49

I think one lesson here, is that exhaust jacks look clever, but really are pretty useless bits of equipment. I would learn from this lesson and not replace it.

I mostly agree with Willie. You need to know the limits of your equipment and vehicle and you take the risk in recovering the illprepared.

Its like recovery points. Most stuck 4wds on the beach don't have rated recovery points and if break one during a snatch, its your vehicle and the back of your head that takes the impact of that runaway shackle.

Best option is to offer to call the recovery service and then they'll realise the real cost of not going prepared.

FollowupID: 24708

Reply By: haze - Sunday, Oct 19, 2003 at 07:53

Sunday, Oct 19, 2003 at 07:53

Iget meself bogged, Iget meself out! And expect others to do the same. Like Willie ,will always offer advice, the banjo if diggings needed but when it comes down to it, its my truck and I dont intend breaking it for someone elses mistakes.
Most people who get bogged (inexperienced that is) want to get out as quick as they got in. Well, as we all know it usually aint that simple. When ever it happens here the first thing is to take the top off one and survey the situation. Then usually out comes the high lift jack ---------
cheers haze

AnswerID: 34326

Follow Up By: Member - Ross - Sunday, Oct 19, 2003 at 21:57

Sunday, Oct 19, 2003 at 21:57

Willie

I was referring to the vehicle as a geriatricRosco

FollowupID: 24772

Reply By: Bazza - Monday, Oct 20, 2003 at 16:06

Monday, Oct 20, 2003 at 16:06

G'Day all,
Be advised ............... if I'm about and any of you guys ever get stuck or need a hand, I will allways lend assistance, use what ever I have to get you out and on your way. If I happen to break something of mine while trying to help ..tough luck,my cost, I should have done it a different way.
If we all stood back and did nothing because it might cost us something ... what a crap attitude and a miserable world.
Regards,
Bazza.

AnswerID: 34473