Jessica's rival lost at sea.

Butch,
Do you really think that your "soapbox tirade" will help the situation?
Please leave it off, we don't need it here!
Ian

HI Ian, I don,t think this is "soapbox tirade"....this is reality...its about time people are responsible for their own actions. I have a daughter of similar age so am fully aware of what is at stake.
It seems strange to me that you can't vote till 18...drive a car in most states till 18..... serve on a Jury till 18..... but it's OK to sail around the world solo at 16.
The above rules are there for a reason.......safety and capability.......call me stupid..... but I think society does this for a good reason, to protect and prevent tragic accidents, cheers Butch

PS My apologies if this seems soapbox but I have seen too many young lives lost by foolish decisions !

I think from this there will be a stop put to under age around the world sailing.

But it is still the right of the individual and the parents to have the final say.

So according to your thinking Butch it would be OK and not a problem for someone like myself (who has never had anything to do with sailing) to set sail legally around the world.......but it's not OK for these young adventures who have many years of die hard sailing to do it.

These under aged sailors fall into the category of "experienced sailors" and have more experience them most who have do it all their lives.

With what has or may of happened 2000 miles away from Australia is proof that the seas is a very dangerous place at it's best but the same thing may of happened and more then likely would of the an sailor who was in their 40's with 30 years of experience.

I wish I had the guts and determination to do what they have and are doing.

It seems if you climb Everest your a legend and a hero even if you don't succeed but your an idiot if you sail around the world.....bear in mind Everest is a super highway with over 150 people + sherpas reaching the summit per year and many more who don't but survive....compare that to around the world adventures.

The world is littered with ‘old fools’ who never followed their dreams, but wished for another chance to do so. I say long-live those who are willing to pursue their dreams, whatever their age!

Besides, those who don’t think it can be done shouldn’t bother the person doing it...

Good weekend to all, The Landy

HI olcoolone,

Why will this probably be a stop on under age sailing ????????

Does it take a tragedy for people to see the dangers ???????

I think you will find Jessica Watson had not sailed solo in the open ocean till she started her solo trek around the world !!!!!!!! so much for" experienced sailor"

As for you sailing around the world it it your choice as an adult to make .

Even though it is a long time ago I can remember being bullet proof at 16 and thank God there were older more responsible people to guide me .

Doesn't get me wrong , I think these girls have guts and determination but do they have the reasoning power to realize the dangers involved.

It also bothers me that tax payers money has to be used to rescue these people because of there own recklessness. Take Tony Bullimore (spelling) the English sailor who was lost at see in the Southern Ocean a few years ago,it cost the Australian Government millions of dollars to send THE Australian Navy to rescue him.
Ok I have had my soapbox we can all agree to disagree, cheers Butch :)

So it costs money!

I have a vague memory that after the search for Tony Bullimore (and the kerfuffle about costs), somebody from the ADF (an Admiral?) made a comment to the effect that;

1. the ships, planes and crews were sitting there (fixed capital costs)
2. the ships, planes and crews would have to undergo training at regular intervals to keep their preparedness up
3. here was a situation that tested the machines and their crews capabilities and preparedness in a real life environment rather than a scripted exercise
4. A person’s life was saved.

GVTS spending millions on minin tax propaganda

kinda puts the term "wasting money" into perspective in relation to rescues

Just saw on the news that QANTAS has sent a plane to search the area of the Abbys distress beacon signal 3,200 ks from Australia as the nearest ship is 40 hrs away .
I'm sure they need the training , inconvenience and costs.................... at least it makes me proud that Aussies can help rescue Abby.

hi butch 58
i dont think your comments are fair against young sailors you claim they get in to trouble and are too inexperienced and have to be resqued at cost and risk to others
but

ok this is just but one instant that comes readily to mind without putting any effort into it

what about john bullimore he was resqued twice from the far southern ocean on two seperate occasions and no one stopped him and it cost wa govt and aust navy millions and we didnt try and recoup those cost from your so called experienced sailor that in your opinion should be the only ones that can sail safely
get off your soapbox your not making sense to level headed poeple

i spent 12 years out there in the navy and imho its no place for anyone on less than a 2,000 ton destroyer. as to rescues, and i also did work in the australian maritime rescue organisation, (marineops as it was then known) i agree with nargun. its only money.

Butch,



"Why will this probably be a stop on under age sailing ???????? "

Why because people who have a lot of power politicly and very little knowledge or experience on the subject will steep in and campaign against it.

One of the well meaning children's groups looked at if there was a legal way of stopping Jessica doing what she did or if her parents could be prosecuted.

It's the same we see in the 4wd world, government and minority organisations applying pressure to restrict something due to some unknown logical reason.



"Does it take a tragedy for people to see the dangers ???????"

No it doesn't take a life for people to see the danger, everything we do in life is dangerous and some people don't care and others take a calculated risk.....why do people sky dive, swim with sharks, climb mountains or go extreme 4wding......because the like the thrill.....what may be seen as dangerous to one may be safe to another even if it involves a certain risk factor.



"I think you will find Jessica Watson had not sailed solo in the open ocean till she started her solo trek around the world !!!!!!!! so much for" experienced sailor" "

Jessica boasts a sailing ability and experience way beyond her years. She has collected an impressive sailing resume over the last few years including 5,300 nautical miles offshore and over 5,000 coastal miles – sailing alongside highly experienced yachtsmen and women.

In January, Jessica skippered a 34-foot yacht across the Tasman in a “mock” solo voyage. Jessica prepared, provisioned the yacht and skippered it, making all the weather and route decisions.

This journey tested her ability sailing the yacht by herself and demonstrated that she could make decisions based on safety above all other considerations and further fuelled her passion to sail solo around the world.

Jessica spent most of her younger life living full time on a yacht with her parents whilst they sailed.

So yes I would call her an "experienced sailor".....so if I took up sailing now and in two years time I decided to do a around the world sail ;that would be OK in your eyes....but a 16 year old with 10 years experience is not.



Yes it annoys me as well regarding recover costs but if adventuress take all the precautions, understand the risk and prepare them selves properly and something goes wrong then I feel for them BUT if they don't take precautions, don't care about the risk and are ill prepared then I don't feel sorry for them and the should pay.......so how many 4WDers is that?

Hell we should stop all adventurers and explorers.......then we wouldn,t have to worry.

Butch,
I think you should have read the article about the QANTAS charter a little more closely.

The parents have actually chartered the QANTAS A380, NOT the Australian Taxpayer.

As such on charter QANTAS will receive the appropriate commercial rental rates for their asset which last time I looked wasn't owned by the Australian taxpayers.

Geoff

According to her support team member on the 4.30 news, he thanked the

Australian Taxpayer for chartering a Qantas 330 to go and look for her so dig

deep we are all paying.

Hi Jeff, Just heard on the news that Amy has been located. Her family spokesman a Mr BENNETT stated that the family were grateful for the assistance from the Australia search & rescue service & he went on to say how grateful they were to the Australian TAXPAYERS as the Aust.Search & Rescue had hired a Qantas 380 to search for Amy all paid for by the aussie taxpayers. I thought that all these adventurers took out an insurance contract so that emergencies like Amy's is covered. But I suppose if you ask for a quote from an insurer maybe after recovering from the shock of the amount your premium is you think to yourself...."I'm not paying that" "If I get into trouble someone will rescue me" So off you go on your adventure...just like her brother did previously and he to was the subject of an expensive search because he was chased by Pirates!!! From all reports the boat is damage and in need of urgent repair. I wonder if one of the eleven Aussie observers who boarded the Qantas 380 can mend a mast? We could save money on a second rescue mission

Yeah the Australian rescue mob charted the Qantas plane due to longer touring range, more seats for spectators OPPS!!! observers and availability.

A 380 can fly about 14000 kilometers on one fill.

Its so sad that during the time that a 15 year old girl as missing, there is so much focus on the cost.

Australia is part of an international agreement to rescue people within our area. Australians get rescued weekly all around the world.

get over it

Mazcan.....
I learnt to drive a motor car at 6 on our farm....tractors,trucks and all our machinery by the time I was 16 ......so does that mean I should have been able to drive on our public roads just because I had the experience of someone years older than me ??? and my soapbox is my opinion just the same as yours so there is no need for any insults !

I don,t agree with anyone expecting to be rescued if they put themselves in dangerous position at sea...... and why do they take emergency beacons if they are so confident with their sailing abilities and won't need to be rescued ?

Ocoolone.......
I scuba dive,used to rock climb,learnt gliding, have been in an ultralite plane and have parraglided as well as other thrill sports..........but there was no way I would endanger anyone else or expect them to pay for me getting myself into a situation like these sailors 1,000 of ks from the nearest coast.

Butch, at 16 years of age Australia was quite happy to take me into the Defence Force and turn me into a member of the Australian Navy and defend my country if need be. At that age i was unable to drink legally and unable to vote, yet old enough to die in battle. It was a decision I made and although it required a signature from my parent's allowing me to go, i made that decision myself on my own merits.

I can tell you now, my parents could have stopped me from joining, but they as well as i know that i would have held it against them, possibly for the rest of my life. Yes, i was young, very young, as was Jessica Watson and Amy, but don't make the mistake that because of youth we cant make decisions, be it right or wrong. Thats how we learn the lessons of life and grow up to be responsible adults.

I am a better person because of that experience and judging by the Jessica i saw they day she returned she too is a better person for her experience as well. Personally i am more than happy to know that the hard earned taxes i pay every year, rescues or not, may go towards saving the life of someone who will become a person i would gladly get know later on, better that than having a world full of naysayers and nimby's that want to dictate what everyone else does based on their own limited life experience.

Butch

“I scuba dive,used to rock climb,learnt gliding, have been in an ultralite plane and have parraglided as well as other thrill sports..........but there was no way I would endanger anyone else or expect them to pay for me getting myself into a situation like these sailors 1,000 of ks from the nearest coast.”

Have you got a sign on the back of your car that says leave me to die if I’m in a car accident? Or would you be thankful if someone came to your rescue?

Thank God for humanity...

Landy,
I have private health insurance, Ambulance cover, pay tax and am a member of the local CFA..........If an ambulance comes.....I pay.....If I go to hospital ....... I pay .......If I am cut out of a car by the SES ......well it's a little pay back for all the hours I volunteer with the CFA........but I wouldn't expect anyone to pay to rescue me 1,000 of ks out at sea just because I want an adventure.
I'm sure Jesse Watson will donate part of the millions she earns from her adventure to the coast guard etc.. !!!!!!! even though she would have expected them to rescue her if she had been lost at sea at a cost of millions !

Some people are so narrow minded their ears must touch!

I don't hear so much whinging about cost of rescue when it's Australians being rescued overseas, or our government paying to fly them home because their holiday has be inconvenienced by an earthquake or something similar.

Shaker, great response mate. Luv it.

Butch....I can tell you here and now, that if your freckle was floating in the briny 2,000 k's from land, which can only happen in the southern ocean, Aust being closest, you would be shouting very loudly at the big bloke upstairs, and just hoping that the Australian Navy, or some other ship, was somewhere close by, conducting routine excercise. I have first hand experience of a sailor lost overboard for 30 mins, watching the ship sailing off into the distance, until rescued, and he never recovered his love of the sea.

Fred.

So Butch, when you were gliding and in ultralights - I guess you were prepared for no-one to come looking for you, or where you willing to pay for all the people and aircraft that would have been involved in searching for you if you didnt make it home one day

As for your comment quote"nd why do they take emergency beacons if they are so confident with their sailing abilities and won't need to be rescued ?"

Are you serious, it is actually a very responsible thing to do and imagine how hard it would have been to find her if she didn't have one

Why have you dragged Jessica Watson into this- with an expectation for her to donate money - how do you know she hasn't anyway - not everyone has to tell the world just how much they donate or volunteer!!!!

Yep, I have bitten, because the carry on about how much it costs to rescue people is such a dumb concept - more so when you look at comments made while a person is still missing.

As for millions - seriously I have told you a thousand times stop exaggerating

what ever happened to adventure......

Ill say it again as the irony seems to be lost

the figure ive seen for the rescue so far is around $200k and prob is higher

ad people squeel

and yet every day the paper has another story about wasted taxpayers money
such as free flgihts and staff for premiers fom nearly 20 years ago

as I said the GVT super tax propaganda is fleecing you for 30 mill

so lets not here any talk of wasting money until the real waste is addressed

Wilko,
I am with you.

I hope they find the Lass alive and well, she new the chances but still followed her dream.

Best to have tried and failed than never tried at all.

In it's era a Sparkman & Stephens 34 was a very competitive ocean racing yacht, having won both Sydney to Hobart & Fastnet races.
By todays standards they are relatively slow but are an excellent passagemaker.

If, in fact Abby Sunderland's vessel is upside down, it would be fair to assume that the keel has gone. The good news is, that the beacons were set off manually.

Sending a little girl to sea in a flat arsed downhiller that 5 men would struggle with in rough weather is child abuse. It was always going to pitchpole. I hope she is found and rescued.

Jess dragged a 5.7 kt average out the S&S which is great going.

one up sailing is a challenge, one up RACING is something entirely different.

Hi Bruce,
I just read a news article on the web that states the EPIRB's are both still transmitting and transmitting from the exact same location.

They are drifting back along her original course at about 1.6 knots which according to the "sailing expert" they trotted out indicates in those weather conditions they are either still in an upturned yacht or in life raft.

The same article states the QANTAS plane is due over the search area at 12:00 WST or 14:00 EAST

Hope they find her in one piece,

Geoff

FOUND 2000 KS OFF WESTERN AUSTRALIA COAST. SAKE AND WELL. AS OF 16 30 TODAY. STILL HAS TO BE RESCUED. THANK GOD.....

It's a good news end to what might have been a disaster so let us all hope that the remainder of her voyage has a good outcome, just like Jessica.

But, I wonder, what is the age "cut off" point? 16 year olds in 2010. Will we see 15 & 14 year olds attempting the record next year? And if they are successful will we have 12 & 13 year olds trying for the title at some point in the future?

Jessica set a fine example for us all & she is to be admired by her achievement, but it is a very fine line between coming back home to Port & the needless & pointless loss of a young life. Cheers

Steve ,
I'm glad that you think that my comments are pathetic desperate and jingoinistic......... these services around the world are there to save peoples lives no matter who they are or what nation they are from.
My point is they are not there to wast money and resources on people that put themselves in danger for their own profit or fame as this girl has !!!
As for being Ozzie I wasn't being patronizing ........ its just that we live in a place that values human life and will go to any effort to save it not like many other parts of the world where life is very cheap.

"My point is they are not there to wast money and resources on people that put themselves in danger for their own profit or fame as this girl has !!!"

Perhaps Butch you should read the history of this erstwhile institution: Royal Geographic Society

Their initial exploration charter was to make money for the people who sponsored expeditions!

Difference?

Oh, how's your PADI certification going?

Geoff

Sorry Geoff ........I was NASDS trained in 93

Geez Butch, stop talking like PADI 2010 mate!

"As for being Ozzie I wasn't being patronizing ........ its just that we live in a place that values human life and will go to any effort to save it not like many other parts of the world where life is very cheap"



the girl is from the USA not China