When Fair Dinkum Aussie is made in China,

Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 20:07
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Recently when we did the Tourist Bit on our recent trip, we checked out the Stockman Hall of Fame, the Qantas Museum, and various other Aussie Icons including the Matilda Centre ect, to many to mention, any way the Souvenirs that they sold 99% were made in China, the other 1% was made in Australia like R M Williams gear, the only genuine Aussie article the Cook purchased was genuine polished stone Necklaces with Opal Flecks in them made by a Aboriginal lady who came around to one of the free camps we stopped at, (gifts for the Grand Daughters), I was just wondering if Aussie Tourists in China by Australian made souvenirs, Nah I don't think so.

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Reply By: Member - Longtooth (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 20:38

Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 20:38
Only this afternoon we received prices from several suppliers of cloth bags for our local resource centre. The difference between the bags was the label - the Australian made items being three and a half times the price of the Chinese made bags. Who is making the killing? Or, are the Australian made items highly priced because of the labour costs!
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Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 20:52

Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 20:52
I agree, Aussie made stuff can't compete with Chinese costs, but when tourists go to these Aussie Icons one would think Aussie made stuff would be available to purchase, even if it costs more.

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Follow Up By: Dave B ( BHQ NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 22:15

Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 22:15
I think that would also be the problem if all the tourist items. or most of them, were made in Australia. They would be too dear unfortunately.

The various tourism business rely on the tourists spending money, and I am sure the tourists want to buy something that reminds them of their trip or experience, but there is a limit to what they can spend.
Tourism $$ is a discretionary spend, not a necessity, so they make their own mind up what they can afford to outlay.

Not sure what the answer is. Probably a different answer in different locations.
I try and buy something unique to the area, maybe locally made produce or local crafts.

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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 17:42

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 17:42
Longtooth
In many of the industies we had the damn unions keep wanting MORE....MORE and have caused the Australian made made product to go off shore, Now I hear the Chinese unions are also asking for more , maybe after another 50 years it might even out again.
Look....I don't deprive a worker for decent Latrines , and a coffee break, but over the years the constant demands have have whittled away the profits for the manufacturer, I can remember when a brand new car was only $2,600 in 1969 for a GT Cortina, $2300 for a Civic in 1974, now the prices are around $20,000 / $70,000 , where is it heading, how much will a car cost in year 2050.
I have said many times that back in 1970 a freeze on wages, prices, commodities, etc should have been enforced worldwide,

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Follow Up By: Member -Chops - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 19:09

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 19:09
Doesn't only apply to the unionised workers Doug. The CEOs and CFOs won't work for less than $(Insert ridiculous pay scale here). Share holders also want increased returns on their investment. It all adds up.
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Reply By: howesy - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 20:57

Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 20:57
Look a lot closer and there is a bleep load of RM Williams gear being made in china now too. I've sent back several items in last 12mnths for inferior quality issues.
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Follow Up By: Peter Horne [Krakka] - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 16:31

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 16:31
Quite a bit of RM stuff has been made in china for a few years now.
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 21:24

Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 21:24
After about 15 years of faithful service my made in Germany Bosch 4" angle grinder died a dignified death. No problem it's Sunday but Bunnings will be open. Guess what, surprise surprise all the well known brands Ryobi, de Walt, Bosch, Makita and that not so well known Ozito?? all made in PRC. Asked the nearest red apron wearing assistant if they had anything not made in China. "Yes" says he confidently, "I think the.....oh...well this....no that one....um not that one either (long silence and much dashing about from rack to rack) sorry it looks like all our current stock in made in China." Oh well give one of those and I will see how it goes.
Thank God for the mining sector, we have already exported most of our manufacturing industry in pursuit of cheap labour. I hope our mineral wealth lasts a very long long time.
But never mind my new angle grinder was cheap.
Cynical old bastard that I am

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Pop
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Follow Up By: Dave B ( BHQ NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 22:05

Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 22:05
Well Pop,I guess at least you have some Aussie iron ore in the new angle grinder somewhere.

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Follow Up By: becboo68 - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 06:36

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 06:36
My hubby works in the mining sector and we are now worried he and lots of other people, may loose his job becuase of the governments new super profits tax!
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 07:34

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 07:34
becboo68 , can you or anyone else for that matter JUSTIFY the system that we have now ? Explain how a minning company can come along and dig up whatever wherever including private land and sell off huge chunks of Australia and not pay as much TAX per dollar as the average wage earner ,, The correct term for a minning company is PARASITE , they dont OWN what they sell yet demand BILLIONS of dollars in profits and whinge like a baby when told to pay up to the people that OWN the resources , the Australian public as a whole , not just the Clive Palmers and co.
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Follow Up By: fugwurgin - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 09:08

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 09:08
Alloy......A parasite? the materials used to make our beloved cars, and all our favourite accessories we bolt on them has to come from somewhere. Mining companies are the ones take BIG risks to find these materials. The profits need to justify the risk. Millions of dollars are invested by the companies to set up infrastructure, buy equipment, human resources, insurance etc etc etc. this is before they have even dug up a single rock. there is a huge risk that they may not find enough to recoup costs, or a GFC could send them broke at any time (and they have to put off staff), there are so many risks involved. I know some people are against mining giants because of the profits they make, but its a business. and this business is turning our countries cogs at the moment.
I think we need to look after the industries that are keeping australia out of recession, keeping people employed, keeping us on the world map of thriving countries not slugging them extra tax to make up the shortfall of the goverments overspend and stimulus packages.
I do agree with the OP about these resources going overseas to make Aussie souvenirs. i was at Uluru on the weekend, the souvenir shop there was full of made in china rubbish. I saw a really nice shirt for sale, had a fantastic aboriginal pattern on it. A i was searching the sizes on the tickets i noticed it was made in china WTF? i refused to buy it.
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Follow Up By: Rob! - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:35

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:35
Does anybody actually know what the current system is and what the proposed one is going to be, because I would love to find out.

It seems these useless arguements run along with political agendas and have very little to do with reality.

The only thing I can say is that it's not a bad thing if some coal stays in the ground for our great grandchildren.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:48

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:48
Fugwurgin , yes Parasite , all the $$ China /Japan pay for our raw materials benifite who ? Very few , when it gets down to the nitty gritty whats better for Australia , being able to feed itself or selling off its irreplaceable resources ? Where is the sense in ripping up farmland ??? All the $$$ in the world or coal or gas wont be enough to buy a loaf of bread if we continue to give away our farming lands for the sake of mining companies short term greed , you cant EAT coal or gas or iron ore. You and I and every other Australian OWN the resources in the ground ,NOT just the Clive Palmers of the mining industries and they should pay accordingly .
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:05

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:05
A major reason of 'everything' being made in China is that we supply the raw materials and energy at a price that is laughable , .03 cents a kilo for Gas delivered yet we pay $4.50 a kilo for our own consumption ,
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Follow Up By: fugwurgin - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:17

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:17
Alloy, i take it you drive a car, use a computer, have a tv, camera, possibly a shed full of tools, I guess you could say that YOU benefit from the $$ china\Japan pay for our resources. They dont have factories making our cars, appliances etc out of THIN AIR, these raw materials do come from the ground. We have mining companies satisfying society's supply and demand. And like i said earlier, the profit needs to justify the risk.
As far as "Australians" owning the minerals in the ground, when someone (or a company in this case) buys land "they own it" and whats in it. People cant come later and say "oh hang on, this land has valuable resources in it, we want it back or give us a share of the profits".
There is plenty of available farming land not being utilised for farming, i think thats a cop out excuse to support (as Rob put it " a useless argument").
Perhaps we could be using the resources we mine to produce our own products like cars, electronics etc but no one is developing manufacturing plants to do this, this isnt the mining company's fault. Perhaps no incentives from the government, a SPT isnt going to help!
I honestly dont think we will run out of bread anytime soon, and if we do run out of coal- perhaps there would be more incentive for people to develop alternative energy sources, more efficient solar cells, hydro systems etc, That wouldnt be a bad thing would it? For the time being lets take advantage of the turning cogs of our economy and not make it harder for these companies by increasing company tax. perhaps individuals tax brackets could go up instead, like the ceo's of the mining companies, banks, retail giants, politicians etc. no one needs to earn 6 figure sallaries.
I dont expect you to agree with me on this, but there is another side to the coin!
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Follow Up By: Rob! - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:24

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:24
If you buy land you don't own what is in the ground. If you want to dig it up you have to pay royalties to the state.
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Follow Up By: fugwurgin - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:42

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:42
Rob. Sorry, i didnt quite explain my message clearly. you are right in saying you ( or the companies) need to pay royalties for the sale of extracted materials.
Technically however, the owner does own the land and whats in it (but not free to sell its contents without fees or royalties). What i was trying to say is people (the government) should not be able to come in at a later stage (ie after the company is fully setup and expensive infrastructure is in place) and say they need to "up the costs" to the company because the company is doing well from the resources and the government is running out of money. This impacts on many many people, the employees, our much needed trade relations such as china, consumers, investors etc. That, to me is taking advantage of the situation.
a phrase that comes to mind is "dont bite the hand that feeds you".

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Follow Up By: Rob! - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:53

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:53
Like I said before I don't really know what the system is or is going to be. From what I hear is that at the moment the companies pay royalties at the begining of the year BEFORE they dig anything up based on their own prediction of how much coal / gas is going to be extraceted. The new tax is going to kick if their company profits exceed their own preojections that they paid royalties on. So this TAX is for unexpected profits only and therefore should not affect planned mining expansions.

Apparently the new tax will be difficult for the large mining companies but at the same time will make small operations more competative.

... but I am happy to be proved wrong if someone actaully knows something abou

The basic question remains how much should be paid for our resources. Why don't we make them tax free?
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Follow Up By: Dave B ( BHQ NSW) - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:58

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:58
Fugwurgin, the government has been coming in at a later stage and upping the taxes on just about everything.
Income Tax, Land Tax, Rego, you name it and the rate has gone up.
The rationale seems to be that in their view we can afford it and they are running out of money.
I wish my taxes were the same as 20 years ago.
Do you think the leopard will change his spots?

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Follow Up By: fugwurgin - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:14

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:14
Dave- i never said it hasnt happened in other aspects of our lives, like in the examples you quoted. CPI is one thing, gross opportunistic tax hikes are another!
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:59

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:59
This is becoming well off topic from the original thread...but I’ll buy into it with my thoughts.

We can debate whether mining companies pay the right amount of tax or not, and at times of high commodity prices we’ll see this kind of debate. But it isn’t as though they don’t pay income tax, payroll tax, royalties, local government charges, and provide jobs either directly or indirectly, and we could debate this ad nauseam.

As it stands today royalty revenue and other taxes associated with the mining industry goes into the Government of the day’s consolidated revenue. Consequently, the redistribution of this money does not truly benefit all Australians......

The Rudd Government has tied the new mining company tax regime to providing superannuation benefits for a select group of the population, not all. And there is no doubt that it is being brought in at a time when the government needs to ‘balance the books’ after the massive and wasteful spending it has undertaken post GFC.

I think the more important question is why aren’t the royalties earned from mining activities in Australia isolated from general government revenue and placed into a fund; a fund that has a defined charter on how that money can be spent, and has as its centre-piece the aim of saving for all Australians. The money generated by our mineral wealth should be preserved in a way that truly benefits all Australians, both now and in the future.

This is what we should be debating.........

Cheers, The Landy


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Follow Up By: fugwurgin - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 13:27

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 13:27
Landy, that is another great side to the argument. and yes it is getting a bit off topic ( but i guess thats why there are "follow-up threads). At the end of the day i hope whatever the government decides to do, it doesnt jeapordise our strong mining industry and negatively affect the Australians way of life, be it through increased prices of products, unemployment etc. I just wish i knew wether or not to sell my shares in the mining industry. lol

I think alot of peoples concern is not that the mining companies are digging up the resources, but that they are earning lots of money by selling it. Whats wrong with earning money?? People then seem to take the angle of the environmental aspect of "saving our resources" to help support their argument of making them pay more?
I have just re-read some of the above comments and replies and am a little perplexed as to what the issue is? time to hop off this forum i think!
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Follow Up By: becboo68 - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 18:18

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 18:18
Alloy, clearly you have not thought thro your response to my original posting. Do you realise that the Australian economy stayed where it was because of these so called parasites? You do understand of course that the mining sector employ the highest percentage of Australians in Australia? Which means that all of those Aussies buy products/ services in Australian shops/contractors which in turn provides jobs for other Aussies which in turn provides taxes for the government. The government already gets 42% of just the profit from these companies. Then the workers come along and spend their hard earned cash all over Australia, more tax there. Also, these big companies are also keeping other big companies like Hastings Deering, Labour contract companies and the list goes on...... and the money circle keeps turning.

Don't you see that Australia already is benefitting from these companies in a big way. Your narrow-mindedness is what the government is relying on to keep them in power. The fact that you did not think of how many people will be affected by them pulling their operations, and note that this is already very likely, out of Australia and go to other countries.

This is scarey. This WILL AFFECT YOU! Get educated on the real issues and stop burying your head in the sand. Start understanding the real issues of Australia, don't just read the pollies point of view or all the rest of the do-gooders that live in the cities. Why not ask a commoner like myself and my hubby our point of view.
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Follow Up By: Rob! - Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 09:35

Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 09:35
So can somebody explain to me the details of the current system and the proposed one?

Or does everybody's information come from talkback radio and tabloid papers?
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Follow Up By: cycadcenter - Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 14:03

Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 14:03
Rob

Here you go, this seems a pretty good explaination

Mining tax explained

Bruce
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Follow Up By: Rob! - Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 14:55

Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 14:55
Yes, thanks I saw that this morning too.

As with all these explanations, to get the true picture we must seek more and ask the following questions.
1. Who owns NEWS.com.au and how will they be affected by the supertax.
2. Are the operating expenses of "say $100 million" correct?
3. Can the supertax and non-supertax scenarios be compared against the same profit margin? (considering that the supertax is charged against super profits only)
4. As mentioned, this is a dumbed down version. What has been left out?

but it's a good start... any others?
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Follow Up By: Rob! - Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 15:22

Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 15:22
Here's a couple more I had found

Mining super profits tax: an economic perspective

Mining tax super impact 0.6 per cent: funds

Resources mining tax explained
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Follow Up By: ModSquad - Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 15:30

Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 15:30
Folks,

If you wish to continue this OFF TOPIC discussion can one of you create a BLOG and continue it there.

Any further discussion in regards to Off Topic discussion will be removed.

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Reply By: Member - Josh (TAS) - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 23:13

Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 23:13
We found the same thing Dazza, authentic aboriginal art, made in china. We even found some authentic aboriginal art of ACDC and Van Halen. Not sure if Authentic Aboriginal was the name of the company or what. In one place we even had trouble finding a didgeridoo made by aboriginals not chinese. I love walking into an Australian souvenir shop and the shop assistant can't speak Australian. Anyway we did find some true Australian bits and pieces which now clutter up the lounge room lol but are great memories.

Josh
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 07:39

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 07:39
Aboriginal art ? Fact is that "dot painting"did not exist anywhere in Australia until after English settlement.
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Follow Up By: Nargun51 - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:18

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:18
Alloy c/t

Please cite your references for this assertion!

My understanding was that dot paintings were not art per se, but visual representations of elements of the Dreamtime, drawn as 'mud maps' on the ground.

With a culture that had no written language, and the non permanent nature of the "art", of course they weren't recorded until outside observers noted them (after the Europeans arrived).

When cameras showed these intricate designs and someone decided that they could be sold to place on walls that they became Art
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Follow Up By: Honky - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:40

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:40
From my limited understanding dot painting was created by a missionary as the original aboriginal painting was not allowed especially if you where not of the tribe.
It is copyrighted by a corporation in NT.
Similar situation as the welcoming ceremony.

Honky
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Follow Up By: fugwurgin - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 13:40

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 13:40
Honky is correct, early 1970's.Papunya Tula Artists Pty Ltd is the company. Although they have an aboriginal name they are infact not Aboriginals.
There was a time where the aboriginals were upset by how the "White Community" exploited these paintings and were sold to art dealers and in souvenir shops but eventually many aboriginals decided they too would hop on the band wagon and sell their dot paintings. Now it seems the chinese want in aswell!
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Reply By: Member - Morry H (WA) - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 00:09

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 00:09
hi brought a nice looking leather hat at the BIG RIG in ROMA . well 100 meters down road saw that it was made in china keeped my mouth shut did not tell the accountant paid big money for this item to . hat lasted as long as a good sweat up it started to fall apart in the bin now and this was bought from a accredited tourist bureau so much for aussi icons they sure treat us and catch us or me as a fool regards morry
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Follow Up By: mullyman - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 06:53

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 06:53
Oztent,Oztrail,Jackaroo,Stockman,High Country Yadda,Yadda,Yadda. All Chinese. We've been owned. LOL.
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Reply By: get outmore - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 06:56

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 06:56
What makes you think the RM stuff wasnt made in China?
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Reply By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 09:11

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 09:11
Good post! I'm going to forward this to the ARTN at the Australian Regional Tourism Convention - one of the workshop aims is to gather a list of the top 5 items of concern in the Australian tourism industry and forward this to the Tourism Minister at the end of the conference ! I think you've raised relevant comments that should be considered so thanks!

MM
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Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 17:24

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 17:24
Good on you David & Michelle, pity the post was hijacked re: the tax on mines ect,I hope the Tourism Minister takes it on board.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Dave B ( BHQ NSW) - Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 14:02

Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 14:02
I think we should start another thread and try and keep to Dazas' initial post.

I certainly hear a lot of complaints about Aussie souvenirs made in China.
In fact I know one place in particular that make a point of taking the made in China labels off.

What do people buy if they don't want to buy goods from overseas?

Dave
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Follow Up By: fugwurgin - Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 15:18

Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 15:18
David & Michelle:
firstly great site. Secondly, it would great to see the above info forwarded to the Tourism Convention. It is a real concern going to Iconic Aussie attractions wanting to buy a nice little momento but only finding Chinese made knick knacks. Especially seeing things like Aborignal Art, boomerangs, t shirts all being made by people from overseas.
I dont propose that i have a solution to this problem but i can accept that i will need to pay more for a souvenir that is more authentic to the site or attraction that it represents.

Daza:
I admit that the post was "hijacked" as you put it by talk of the tax to mining companies. I was a contributor to this debate and i apologise for my participation if you didnt appreciate the discussions that were being held in a follow up thread. It is certainly a hot topic! Im not sure if im game to start a thread of its own on that subject, perhaps not relevant to Exploring Oz, perhaps one day it may be.

Dave:
Isnt it illegal to take the stickers off? Dont you need to display the country of manufacture clearly on the product at the point of sale? I can understand why they would do it tho.
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 17:30

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 17:30
Gee...Z Daza , Don't start me on that,..Grrrrrrrrrrr

DON'T YA HATE IT.

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Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 17:45

Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 17:45
G/Day Doug

Yes it's a Thorn in my side as well, makes me wonder, I would rather see some of the Sheltered Workshops in different states with Handicap Workers ect manufacturing different Aussie Memorabilia, than the Made In China Pretend Aussie Rubbish, MICPAR.



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Reply By: Rob! - Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:03

Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:03
Daza,

As far as I can see there are only two possible solutions here.
1. Make Australians (and their visitors) pay three to four times more for similar products (but made in Aus) or
2. Be prepared to work for $1 per day.

If you want real change you must lead by example.
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Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 19:47

Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 19:47
Rob - Agreed - But I will not put my hand up first :-)

But it will have to happen soon - current system is flawed.

Cheers
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