How slow is to fast to be considered discourteous

Trevor your not a nerd
Some just don't give a hoot. My sister had her windscreen smashed, not cracked smashed by a fast travelling 4x4 towing a c/t out Arrabury way. They lived out there at the time. It wasn't easy to get a replacement. My husband works out there towing b-triples, some of the stories he comes home with. The last hitch he came across city people trying to change a tyre, Bloody joke he reckoned. Last weekend he said there were very dirty caravans everywhere out Thargo. Busier due to the greenery and B/T closed I expect.
Any how the trouble with this kind of traveller is they only have one week to do a 2 week trip.
Another thing some do is expect a huge fully loaded truck to verge off the track. Those that read this and have done it shame on you. Those that get out of their way, on the truckies behalf a big thankyou. They don't have tow trucks to pull them back on.
It really comes back to courtesy.
Cheers

Agree 100% Trevor we have the same trouble all the time they just don't seem to care we are towing and know the stones that are shot out and always slow down to around 40-50km/h and you can tell when the on coming are not slowing because the dust cloud is huge.

It's not crappy 4wd's either lots of new 4wd's and when they are in convoy they love to sit in each other’s dust.

They either don't worry about stone damage or just like to go home and brag after doing 8oookm in 2 weeks how far and rough it was, "look at what we broke".

I think some of the problem is the roads such as the Birdsville/Strzelecki are too wide and smooth allowing high speeds.

We now take more remote tracks that are less travelled and find these very enjoyable.

Christian

Agree with you Trevor.

I have been saving up the cracks on my screen and just replaced it.

One bad one was just out of Birdsville, I slowed to about 60 from 80, but the oncoming telstra 4wd still sat on his 100, and threw a stone.
Other major crack was on the short bit of bitumen outside Hells Gate from a CT.

Always get at least one good chip if not a crack every trip.
Really sours it when you get a friendly wave in most cases and a second or so later, the bang of a stone on the windscreen.

And the related issue is tyre pressure and tyre safety. Over and over people are told to lower tyre pessures for these conditions to lower chances of tyre damage and blowouts; lowersuspension damage and improve ride comfort. But, and it's a big but, lower pressures necessitate lower speeds. It's a safe bet that those who travel roads like this at speed will be the same ones complaining about poor tyre performance and prone-ness to punctures of particulat brands etc etc. as well.

I used to always slow right down and still do BUT if I see you comming at me doing 100kph+ then I will speed up and try to shower you with rocks (you are going to bust my screen and lights anyway).
However I will always try to get off the road for heavy vehicles and I'll give them a call and tell them to have as much room as they want and how many vehicles are behind me.
Spent too much time working and touring on outback roads and let me say that Qld drivers are the worst for not slowing down.

Cheers
Dave

I will slow down and try to move over but cannot tell you the actual speed as it depends on the road surface. I would be a fool to slow down just a smidgen and then move over into a soft edge and roll etc etc. Nor will I come to a complete stop unless its for a truck. Even then not always. Its a case by case situation.

I don't know about the last comment from Dave but I can sure sympathise with him. We had lights and the grill broken and a few decent chips on the windscreen on our first trip in the Toyota. After that I made a stone guard for the front of the car and it got heaps of rocks in it. I have just replaced the wire for our next trip.

But I would NEVER purposely make it worse for oncoming traffic. This is something that has always been and always will be. Slow down and protect your own car as much as you can and hope the others do the same.

Phil

Good post Trevor, hopefully you posting this will bring it to a few people's attention who never give it a thought.

Most of these folks drive this way out of ignorance, they just have no idea what chaos is going on around them.

People who grew up on unsealed roads or who have been trained to drive on them know the unwritten laws of this environment. How to ovetake, be overtaken, pass and be passed. Unfortunately these rules are not written up in the magazines so the two week warriors with the 20K+ of accessories (not that there is anything wrong with that) do not learn them and don't spend wnough time in one place to be instructed on them.

I did a trip a couple of years back with a bloke (city slicker) who copped abuse two days running over the 2 way and had no idea what he was doing wrong. When we had a little fire-side chat about it he suddenly realised why he we getting flack and no more problems. He was pulling out and blasting past people towing as fast as he could (covering them in stones), in one case only 2K out of an upcoming town (why not wait) where the bloke gave him a broadside in person!

It would be good actually to have a ExploreOz code of conduct on it!!

How's this for starters:

Overtaking on dirt/gravel: Call on CB. Headlights on, pull out of dust trail when safe and flash headlights until it is obvious the vehicle ahead has seen you. Accellerate as quick as safe until alongside the other vehicle and then throttle off and maintain speed with gentle throttle in anticipation the other vehicle will slow (which it should). Stay on the other side of the road as long as possible and then move over when the following vehicle is reasonably clear of your dust.

OBT

Hi Trevor

I am sure you will enjoy and find this site useful

Its a tricky subject I guess and the response seems to change with the situation.

Or our recent trip we passed and overtook many vehicles.

Up the Canning it was easy as people pretty well were on the same UHF channel and everyone would assist the manovere's in a sort of spirit of adventure.

On back roads like Oodnadatta track etc it was a different story - no common UHF channel and wet weather which left most cars covered in mud , many towing trailers not able to see out the back window made it much harder.

In addition there was often only one track thru the mud and often the track wanders from one side of the road to the other even over dips and crests.

One took one small window crack from a CT as the driver swerved out of the track and sprayed everywhere.

One thing you can do is remember that the higher passing speed does the damage and we have had no hesitation in slowing down to a dead stop on a track sometimes and let the other driver drive around.

I slow down and puul to the side where possible to minimise rocks thrown by my vehicle, but mainly to try and prevent damage from rocks picked up by the passing vehicle.
What I have never seen discussed is whether the damage from windscreens is mainly caused by the speed of the damaged vehicle or the speed of the vehicle throwing rocks.
If a vehicle is travelling at 100kph, are the rocks thrown at the same speed?
Are the rocks flicked up at a low speed, and the windsreen damage is caused by the speed of the vehicle being showered with the rocks?
Let's face it, if you chuck a rock at a windscreen at 40kph, it will probably damage the screen, so slowing down from whaterver to 40kph probably won't save it.
Are the rocks flicked up at very little speed, then accellerated by bouncing under the vehicle?
Is it a combination of all of the above?
If you stop, and a rock is thrown up by a passing vehicle, will it break your windscreen?
Does anyone know?
Maybe the old wire mesh windscreen and headlight prorectors from the 60's could make a comeback.
Cheers

Trevor
I agree with your concerns, it does no harm to anything except a bloke's ego when he's forced to slow down.
A bit like a truckie when catching up to a Caravan , I have told a few the Truck has no feelings and emotions, thats all in the driver. trucks like all other vehicles have a gearbox, if you have to slow down then use it, it won't be long and it's back up to cruising speed.

.

Hullo All

I agree with most that this is a real issue. Certainly most of the idiots that won't slow down are city slickers who haven't a clue. However, we were recently travelling north out of Birdsville towing our large van, when an oncoming idiot ia a 200 Series white Cruiser with a Diamantina Council logo on the side raced past us on his way into Birdsville for a function for the Navy. (I hope that pretty much describes the bloke!!!)

Anyway, we were sprayed with rocks resulting in a cracked windscreen. I was not impressed needless to say.

It is couteous and safer to slow down and respect others.

Regards, Jack

Good question Trevor.

A set passing speed is often irrelevant .... Its the conditions ... and sometimes your passing speed should be as low as 20kph.

I have always driven at whatever max velocity I deemed suitable for the conditions ... but always slow for traffic.

On the narrow single lane bitumen dev roads .... I was often the one trundling along in the tabledrain at 30kph .... allowing the oncoming vehicle to maintain their higher speed ... and vehicle control.

Back then there seemed to be a separation distance that was accepted as a "move over" point .... Now it seems to be a "game of chicken" to see who keeps control of the most road the longest.

Rude day trippers ... or two minute tourists as someone else called them ... with no spare time, have certainly changed outback driving experiences and social values.

Gday,
All depends on the road surface and your tyres......If your throwing rocks up, slow down a bit.
In saying that, when you work remote and time is money sometimes you couldn't earn a living if you slowed down to 60km for every vehicle you come across ( and who's to say you cant flick up a rock at 60?).
I have had one window smashed in 20 odd years of dirt road driving ( by a bus doing around 60km).... if they look like they aren't going to back off and your not in a hurray...move out the way.

Your right though...there are some real hero's out there too.

Cheers

Trevor
As people have said there is a lot of inconsiderate people out there. On all my major trips I have never got back home without stone chipped or cracked screen, but got releally pi--ed off when one of the people your talking about went past throwing stones [rocks] and one went between my tray camper and the ute back window. It was the old bleep ter type so you know that is bleep ted.Still had 5000 kl of dirt to go and could not get one till got back home without a 5 day wait for a three legged camel to deliver it. Heaps of dust inside, also had heaps of smashed driving lights from the same type. Very annoying when you slow down to 50 kl. A little bit of courtesy go a long way

Murray

Hi

Glad you brought this up.

Have recently returned from trip down the Gibb River Road. One of the things that spoilt it was the attitude of some of the other drivers.

They weren't happy unless they were speeding past spraying you with rocks, from behind and in front.

Some were becoming airborne at the dips, didn't have a clue.

One clown passed myself and another vehicle in a shower of rocks only to come to a creek crossing. He had to cut in front and come to a sliding halt in a shower of dust and rocks. He left even quicker as I think he got the message we would have liked to have a word with him. This was on the road into El Questro.

In one caravan park one of the workers was overheard bragging how he liked to speed past vans and spray them with rocks. Got a big kick out of it, a real winner.

Others could be heard over the UHF travelling in convoy, racing around slower vehicles bragging about flashing his "high definition" spotlights.

A female "Wicked van" driver who had not driven on unsealed roads before had been told not to drive less than 80klm. An accident waiting to happen.

Saw one accident. Surprised we didn't see more.

Whilst some didn't know better I'm afraid the attitude of some drivers leaves a lot to be desired.

One question back to you Trevor , "who appointed you as the speed enforcer on dirt roads ? " , Driving conditions are a variable not just by tire pressure , speed ,vehicle ,weather etc,ect , what YOU may think is reasonable speed for the time and place is not necessarily someone elses comfortable speed.

Interesting thread and I think there is a general consensus in favour of ‘considerate’ driving and mind you that is probably open to far too wide an interpretation.

But to take the point off-track slightly, but related, often it is the vehicles that Trevor describes in the original post that suffer failures on outback trips; you know the thing, broken suspension etc. Followed up with a post somewhere telling you how hard this track or that track was on the vehicle when in fact it was the person in the front seat doing most of the damage.

Ultimately they end up paying, one way or another............

Cheers, The Landy

Spot on Trevor,
No not a nerd but a concerned and cautious driver.
I was in a group north bound from cooper creek ferry and encountered that same group from central coast 4wd club( signs across their windscreens) heading south to the ferry. I was about to go around a soft sandy section of road the first 2 cars coming were on the wrong side of the road and nearly out of control one with the drivers tyre nearly over the embankment
I think they soiled themselves when they saw me.
You have to have your wits about you I reversed back enough and waited till all cars had passed.
We called on the radio to the last car after he told us he was last that the front group were idiots.
We did not get a reply.
We struck them a couple of times and reports from others was not good either.