Winches, Hand Versus Electric?

Submitted: Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 18:30
ThreadID: 80298 Views:5792 Replies:8 FollowUps:16
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A few years back a tour operater from up north , argued like hell on this site that hand winches where the way to go as to often he witnessed failure with the electric jobbies leading to a few disasterous situations!. There does not seem to be to much in the way of advertising for hand winches these days, But in my opinion they spell hard vakka..lol., But then if your well maintained electric winch craps its self right when you need it, Maybe its not a bad idea to have both..lol, ???.


Cheers Axle.
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Reply By: OzTroopy - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 18:57

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 18:57
Ive normally found that by the time Ive had a scratch around with a shovel, done some jacking and packing as is required for an EASY winch recovery .... Ive been able to drive out anyway ......

But then I dont go looking for places to get bogged or stuck ... to justify the cost of something hanging off the front bar.

Handy thing to stand shed frames up and drag carcasses out of gullies tho ....
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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:07

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:07
I'm with you!..LOL.


Axle.
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Follow Up By: Allan B, Sunshine Coast, - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:55

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:55
Me too! I'm waiting for someone to market a 12 volt Sky-hook! LOL

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Going Bush - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 18:59

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 18:59
IMO Hand winch is Most Reliable & Most Versatile.

If you roll your car you can not use your power winch, If you have to recover somo ne elses roll over its sometimes difficult to acess a cable path, either front on or via snatch block.

If you get bogged, a power winch will only pull you further into the bog, Hand winch pulls you out the easy way - the way you went in,

Been 4WDing since 1980 had Electric, PTO , & handwinches , Used the Tirfor plenty of times (and its good excersise) , rarely used power winches, (On club trips about 50% of electric winches dont work when needed)

Plus you are saving a bit of weight by not fitting power winch, You have to drag it around all the time even when not on tour !!
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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:14

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:14
Interesting point about pulling your self further in!, unless your on a uphill run..lol.


Axle
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Follow Up By: Joe n Mel - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:38

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:38
we had two 75's set up for bush deliverys of food and the solution for not getting in to deep was simple, you have the winch on the tray, it is mounted to a box shaft same as a "reece" hitch .....
You have a "tow-bar" socket recessed in the front in the bar and as per normal at the rear, again the "box shaft" (reece style) and have power at the front and rear from the aux battery...
Winch unit is in nice clean box protected when not needed and out it comes when needed and most winching was done from the rear, back him out and have another crack at it, most times if ya get stuck ya not gunna get any further so you pull it back to dry land.....
Simple, effective, keeps it clean until needed, keeps the front neater (crome caps to cover it) and if in a convoy and the car behind you gets stuck you can plug it into the back and pull him up and out without turning around as sometimes you just dont have that option or room....
A few benifits spring to mind for the "traveller" .... we had it purely for working ..
Box socket on the bar ..... great for launching boats and pushing vans n trailers ...
And to add to that, although i have not done it, if you had a camper you could put a "box" socket on the back of it and very simply winch it all backwards.... food for thought. .... ... .. .... ... . ...... . . ..... .. ... . . .. . .... . .
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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 20:43

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 20:43
OH Dear!!!, Technology, Ideas, Common sense,


Brilliant !!.. Joe..n Mel..


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 20:56

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 20:56
Joe n Mel, Just when I thought I had come up with the perfect solution to the winch always being on the wrong end of the vehicle you guys have already been there and done that. Yes to all the reasons including keeping the winch out of the elements until needed..........10 out of 10.
Now all I need to do is figure out some sort of trolley system to move the 35 or so kilo winch from its stored position to whichever end I need it so that my aging back will last a little longer. Keeping in mind that being bogged the moving of the winch is not likely to need being done on nice flat hard ground.........still working on that one.

Cheers Pop
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Follow Up By: Member - bill j (VIC) - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 21:10

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 21:10
read an article awhile back that the Arabs don't have winches on there for-by's spoils the look,they keep a portable electric one in the back must have box socket on front bar
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Follow Up By: Joe n Mel - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 21:25

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 21:25
one thing i often see is way oversized winches on 4wd's, if you are like me and only require it for a situation that you hope not to be in, i.e. you dont try to get bogged like some.......... then you only need a small winch, 8000 pound is the biggest i would go and use a pully system to halve the load, in "theory" an 8000 pound will pull 16,000 pound if you double it back with a pully system and you can use and carry snatch straps that are very light and store well and can be used for all sorts of things when camping ...... (clothes line, tie up the kids, so n so)
Get bogged, have the tree proctector strap around the tree and hooked to a strap that goes to a pully, the winch cable is taken out through the pully and back to the car to a hook point on the chassis and away you go, six feet of cable movement will only pull 3 feet but so what, the whole lot is half the weight and easy to handle, just use a good sized dia on pully and make certain it is rated at the full load (i.e. 16,000 p) ....
There is a new "nylon" or some high tech type "rope" out now that is half the weight, that would be worth looking at to cut down on weight and probally get more on the spool also......
Enjoy
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Follow Up By: Going Bush - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 23:22

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 23:22
Years ago I had an ex army ACCO 4x4 it had a huge mid mounted PTO winch with fairlead FRONT & REAR , Had to use it too - Now you'd be stuffed pulling this out with a HandWinch

http://www.4wdonline.com/International/PiCs37/milTruck.DonI01.jpg
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Reply By: Rockape - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:01

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:01
Axle,
a few years back I got pis#ed off with using a track across the Burke river.

I said to my passenger that we will have a go at crossing on the old track. I walked down through the mud and reckoned I could get accross. Well I was wrong, made it through the mud but when we hit the sand she sunk to the diffs.

Out with the winch cable, winch u/s and going nowhere. Now my passenger has a problem. We have a Turfor in the ute and you guessed it he is the operator, cause I gotta drive.

I can still see the sweat coming of him, bugger!! I had to not only drive but also adjust the aircon.

Have a good one

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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:17

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:17
Hahahahahahaha!.....Is he still your mate?....lol.


Axle.
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:26

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 19:26
Must tell that to SWMBO next time LOL

Andrew
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Monday, Jul 26, 2010 at 05:37

Monday, Jul 26, 2010 at 05:37
Axle,

He is still my mate, poor misguided soul.

I forgot to say that a thin layer of sand covered more mud and that's why she sunk to the diffs.

Have a good one
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 20:21

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 20:21
Some interesting thoughts on this post!! Michael
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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 21:30

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 21:30
G/Day Mike.... I did state Winches!......lol...Hows the nissan Performing?



Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Jul 26, 2010 at 17:01

Monday, Jul 26, 2010 at 17:01
Gday Axle, The Patrol is going like a freight train... 304,000ks and never have a spanner on it except for normal servicing... Michael
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Reply By: Crackles - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 22:42

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 22:42
When I instruct on the use of various types of winches I set up a Tirfor to pull an empty 4x4 up a 15 degree enbankment. Even though it's not actually stuck it takes a group about 15 to 20 minutes to pull it the length of the vehicle. Often people can't even work the handle as they aren't strong enough. Now imagine this vehicle is bogged, loaded up for a trip or on a steep slope. The vast majority of people would not have the fitness or strength to opperate one for long enough to complete a recovery even if it was double blocked.
They are a cheaper option for someone who has no intention of ever using a winch & has plenty of time should he or she need to do so.
My advice to anyone considering buying one is to use one in anger first & see how they go.
Cheers Craig.............
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Follow Up By: Muntoo - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 23:36

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 23:36
I agree, i'd rather spend time servicing an electric winch each year then arm wrestling with a hand winch. I like to call them hernia winches, or in some cases a heart attack winch. Not for me thats for sure.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Jul 26, 2010 at 08:32

Monday, Jul 26, 2010 at 08:32
Front, rear or sideways.......!



Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Monday, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:10

Monday, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:10
Thats the go ....

Getting useful value out of your purchase ... rather than just decorating your front bar.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Monday, Jul 26, 2010 at 19:38

Monday, Jul 26, 2010 at 19:38
They cause more heart attacks than unbogged vehicles Axle.

Their are few cases where an electric winch cannot help if set up right, with ours we have rolled cars back onto wheels , pulled ourselves in reverse, trees off roads , stumps out for neighbours etc etc.

Like anything electric winches need maintenance by someone who knows what he is doing - previous week on Canning we came across farmer brown whose nice Toyota acessories winch had literally rattled to pieces and lost drum bolts as well.
Robin Miller

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Reply By: Olsen's 4WD Tours and Training - Tuesday, Jul 27, 2010 at 07:39

Tuesday, Jul 27, 2010 at 07:39
There are pros and cons for each. Knowing how to use them is the key. I have always argued the hand winch which was all I carried was all I needed and most of the time that has been true. I needed an electric winch just twice in my lifetime. In my training about 50% of electric winches that arrive at training are unserviceable or unsafe due to electrical faults or cable damage. You decide what suits you from the advice above
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