Troopy Dilemma

Submitted: Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 13:12
ThreadID: 80433 Views:3331 Replies:13 FollowUps:17
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Hi folks:
Just towed a young neighbours Troopy out of the Watagana with an as yet undiagnosed problem. He and his mate has just spent an interesting night in the Watagans : ) We would appreciate advice/suggestions on the possible cause.

Symptoms are:

No forward or reverse movement in either high range or low range in any gear.

Sounds like a clutch until under the car, the shafts are spinning in all gears, and cannot be stopped by hand. But still the car does not move.

Next diagnosis is two blown diffs .. but on the tow home there was no growling noise to suggest that there were bits and pieces spinning around anywhere. Two blown diffs in one outing seems improbable, but not impossible.

He is about to lstart looking for a problem and I told him I'd give it a go here as well.

As usual, many thanks in advance for your responses.

Also thanks to the guys on the trail bikes who directed me to the vehicle, and the two 4WD guys, out enjoying the Forest, who stopped with offers of help.
It's n great community.

Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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Reply By: Member - Bruce T (SA) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 13:32

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 13:32
Hi Jack,

We were faced with a dilemma like this in early March this year, near Warren. We stopped at road works, put the Troopy in gear to move off but instead heard a chattering noise. From then on no forward or reverse movement in any mode. We were towed back to Warren by the NRMA and it was fixed there. It was the tailshaft. Our mate, back in Adelaide, diagnosed it for us over the phone so that when the NRMA came we were able to suggest what it might be.

If it is an early model Troopy that could well be the fault.

Cheers,
Bruce
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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 13:34

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 13:34
Thanks Bruce .. symptoms sound very similar. I shall pass it on. He is under the car as I speak. Much obliged.

Jack
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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 13:36

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 13:36
Supplementary question, pls Brude.

What was the actual problem with the tail shaft? Thanks.

Jack
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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 13:36

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 13:36
Let's try Bruce .. less haste, more speed. :)
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce T (SA) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 13:42

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 13:42
Hi Jack,

Whoops, just realised I meant driveshaft. The short answer is that it was stuffed. The long answer is that it was stripped. Apparently it is a fairly well known problem with the Troopy manufactured in that 2000 bracket. The replacement drive shaft is one piece.

Cheers,
Bruce
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Follow Up By: Stu & "Bob" - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 14:27

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 14:27
So, if one was to lock in the front hubs in 4WD, does it have drive then?


.
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Follow Up By: Member - Barnray (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 14:29

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 14:29
Are the shafts spinning when the vehicle is on the ground? If so then Diff or axle are broke. If not then there is a possibility that the input shaft to the transfer case is stripped. Barnray
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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 15:04

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 15:04
Hi Stu:

Yep ... hubs locked .. still no go. Having a cuppa, then back to the grindstone.

THANKS

Jack
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 17:49

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 17:49
Assuming both front and rear prop shafts are turning positively try removing the free wheeling hubs completely and see if the drive is going to the front wheels i.e. front drive shafts from diff are ok.
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Reply By: get outmore - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 14:10

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 14:10
certainly sounds like a dual failure but im thinking not diffs

maybe axle studs on the rear which would have given them 1 wheel drive to the front, due to lack of traction they would have been giving it to her more stripping the locking hub

dont forget they are only 2wd
- take drive to either one of a back and front wheel and thats it
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Reply By: Member - Stuart P (WA) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 18:03

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 18:03
sounds like the drive shaft from the main gear box through to the 4wd box the splines are worn off
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Follow Up By: Member - Stuart P (WA) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 18:05

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 18:05
4wd box equates to transfer case. just had a mental lock out.the genuine one here in perth cost heaps , from memory
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 18:05

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 18:05
Your mate's troopie would be a 1999-2002 HZJ78 model. They had a 2-piece input shaft into the transfer that was known to break. Its not an overly expensive repair - Toyota supply an upgraded part.

This is probably what Bruce's problem was too.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 18:19

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 18:19
I would have though then there would be no drive coming out of the TC

he says both front and rear drive shafts are turning
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce T (SA) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 18:20

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 18:20
Hi Phil,

Absolutely right. It is exactly what we had happen. I was about to post, don't go to a big city Toyota dealership to discuss it as they don't even know about it; go to a country one. Country Dealers sell more Troopies and know what is happening. It cost us about $1000 to repair. Worked well after that although we have just sold it.

We got to K140+ km with the rubbish one.

Bruce
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Reply By: Member - Kevin B1 (WA) - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 19:06

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 19:06
Constant mesh gear on the main shaft to transfer box has stripped the splines. Gearbox overhaul is required.
AnswerID: 425848

Reply By: Dasher Des - Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 20:35

Saturday, Jul 31, 2010 at 20:35
I hope it wasn't anything over complicated like accidentally moving the High range Low range lever into neutral and not realising it. I often do that on purpose if leaving the 4by in a sus area as a security measure. I hope any would be thieves don't pick up on that little trick LOL
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Reply By: Member - Rodney B- Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 00:00

Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 00:00
If both tailshafts are turning and you can't stop them them the problem is in the diff/axle area. My guess is the splines are stripped on both one of the rear and front hubs. Take the dust/grease caps of each axle end and see if the axle shaft is turning. Unlikely but possible are broken axles. If the problem was in the Diff or Transfer case the tailshafts would not be spinning.

Cheers Rod
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 08:48

Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 08:48
I had same problem while in Mt Isa around 2005, it's a job on the Gearbox for you, not Transfer Case,

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Reply By: Member - Jack - Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 19:04

Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 19:04
Just trying to help this young bloke. His work makes it a bit difficult to spend a weekend stripping his car down to locate a fault, so I am trying to help him with some further advice to save him some 'looking' time.

As of today the Troopy has been jacked up.
It is a 85 model FJ75. It has a non limited slip rear diff.

When jacked up off the ground, both rear wheels spin freely if they are spun by hand. That is, when the wheels are spun by hand there is no apparent resistance felt from the diff. At this stage we fear it is both diffs, but hope not.

With the front jacked up it is the same as the rear.

With the engine running and the vehicle in gear, both the tailshafts are rotating when in 4WD. In 2WD the rear shaft rotates. It all seems to be normal.

It speeds up when revved, and the tailshaft speed varies between high and low range, but still no drive.

When the vehicle is on the ground, the gears can be engaged without using the clutch.

I am going to get him some help on next weekend so that we can get him mobile again, and your input so far has been generous and appreciated. I am hoping this additional info will help him further and possibly narrow down the options.

Again, my thanks in advance.

Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 19:40

Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 19:40
thats a bit of a mind bender - some seemingly contadictory things

if the engine is running you shouldnt be able to put it in gear without the clutch unless the gearbox is recieveing no drive (stripped input) but then you say the tailshafts will spin indicating the gearbox is getting drive

Ive gone away from my dual failure theory

- bit much of a co oncedence for both diffs, axle studs, axles whatever to go

maybe aliiens beemed up vital drive componants?
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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 20:03

Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 20:03
I think you are onto something with the aliens. It's the best yet.

I know it is easier to just pull stuff apart, but this kid is short of time so I am just trying to cut down the amount of work needed to find the fault. But it is strange.

I think he has a day free next weekend, so we might need to strip it down and find the problem. I am just trying to give a young guy a bit of help. Wish at times I was a mechanic.

Jack
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Reply By: Cruiser 2091 - Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 22:24

Sunday, Aug 01, 2010 at 22:24
Jack it comes down to diagnosis, not assumptions based on others similar but not identical experiences.

You carried out tests which give a good indication of the problem.

You have proved without doubt that there is no problem with the motor, clutch, gearbox or transfer case because together they are able to drive the tailshafts.

So with the tailshafts turning but no drive to the wheels the fault has to be somewhere between the talshafts and the wheels. This could be gears stripped in the diffs, broken axles, or the drive between axles and wheels.

Someone else mentioned this drive from axle to wheel namely the free wheeling hub on the front and the flange studs on the rear. It was also suggested that an easy check is to remove the hubs and see if the axles are turning. If the axles turn of course they are not broken nor is therea fault with the diffs but by the time you remove the hubs you would see any fault with the hubs anyway.

Don't be confused about being able to change gear without the clutch, this can be done while driving if the revs are correct but is easier with no load. Also dont be confused by turning the wheels by hand because even if everything is ok turning one wheel may not necessarily make the tailshaft turn. This is a normal function of the planetry gears.

In short the problem is between the tailshafts and the wheels.

Hope this helps
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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Monday, Aug 02, 2010 at 07:22

Monday, Aug 02, 2010 at 07:22
It does, and thanks.

In all I was trying to get closer to the problem as a non-mechanical type. If it saves him a bit of time it is a good thing.

He is a good young bloke who has endured a lot in a short life. I am a Vietnam Vet and doubt that I could deal with some of his issues. But he is a tough little guy, and worthy of some support.

We will get it sorted if he gets enough time on the weekend.

Thanks

Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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Reply By: get outmore - Monday, Aug 02, 2010 at 09:40

Monday, Aug 02, 2010 at 09:40
OK heres my theory and im putting $20 E dollors on it


one of the front locking hubs is not engaging which is moderatly common for a number of reasons including sticking or breaking of the gear

resulting in no drive to the front wheels

this has gone unnoticed - probablly just thought the troopys 4wd ability sucked a bit

then he has snapped the rear axle studs which is very common on troopies that age meaning there is now no drive to the rear wheels


go to the rear axles and check the bolts holding them in, when they snap usually the axle pops out a bit and should be obvios



this still does not explain how you can put the gearbox into gear with the engine running without the clutch

- or maybe it does, without having to immediatly turn the wheels which have no drive, all it needs to do is engage the drive shafts which being relativly light allows meshing of the moving gears
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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Monday, Aug 02, 2010 at 11:46

Monday, Aug 02, 2010 at 11:46
I will give him a hand on the weekend, and will let you (all) know what we found. Should be interesting.

Thanks for all your help.

jack
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Wednesday, Aug 04, 2010 at 23:59

Wednesday, Aug 04, 2010 at 23:59
Grommet problem? Stopped someone I know. ;-)
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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Thursday, Aug 05, 2010 at 07:39

Thursday, Aug 05, 2010 at 07:39
Ah yes ... missing grommet!!!! That's it. I might take a quick spin to Mt Augusta (Augustus???) and lsee if I can find it laying around somewhere : )

I trust all is going well on your trip. Saw an earlier post about the number of punctures you have all encountered. Stay on the black top is my advice. : )

Jack
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Reply By: Cruiser 2091 - Monday, Aug 02, 2010 at 15:17

Monday, Aug 02, 2010 at 15:17
Get out more and Rodney B have it summed up Jack. Elsewhere though you are being given a lot of misleading and incorrect information.
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Reply By: Member - Jack - Saturday, Aug 07, 2010 at 13:26

Saturday, Aug 07, 2010 at 13:26
Firstly, I would like to thank everyone who responded to this thread with advice and help.

The problem was a snapped rear axle, right at the hub end. He has been able to get a replacement for a good price. When he got it all together, he noticed that the front hubs were not engaged.

It had been suggested this could be a problem (Getoutmore I seem to recall). It was. Fortunately it was not a dual failure, and the beast is now ready to conquer whatever is next.

Young Matt says thanks, and so do I.

Safe travels.

Jack
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