Second-hand diesel

Submitted: Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 21:28
ThreadID: 80609 Views:3439 Replies:5 FollowUps:16
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No doubt this has been done before, but having gone through the whole gambit of research into a second-hand vehicle to tow my caravan (goes about 2 ton loaded) in a reasonably economical way, with sufficient power to get up hills, I've sort off come down to to 100 series or a Patrol 4.2l. (if you can find one)
Price is a factor and so I've looked at utes, Jackaroos, Discos, Prado, Pajero and so on.
I've a good friend who is a engine reconditioner, who tells me people front with modern alloy heads that have cracked or bent and he can't fix them. He's tried. He's a dab hand this a TIG. Fixes lots, but multi valve, nothing to work with. Consequently mega dollars to replace them.
This leads me back to the old favourites
I might say I've done many 1000's K's towing with a '95 disco on gas. Very frustrating. An eminently capable off road car, but not a tow vehicle, in spite of performance chip extractors etc.
Anyway I've rambled on enough. (apologies).
Looking for objective views please? I know everyone has their favourites. David
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Reply By: ross - Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:04

Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:04
With a 2 ton van you will need something close to that weight or more to be on the safe side (I know you can tow much more legally).
A 2 ton van pulled my brothers 03 Prado off the road when the van wheels went into the dirt on a bend.
Both car and van were written off.

To have the power you want it will need be a turbo diesel.
Its going t be a short list.

You would save a lot of money with a lighter van.
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Follow Up By: Member - David L2 (VIC) - Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:31

Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:31
Ross thanks. The van is 1500 kgs. unloaded, tandem axles. I'm guessing at loaded weight, but with water (not full) and other junk is conservative. Stuck with van. We like it, all kitted out solar etc. David
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Reply By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:08

Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:08
have you looked at the toyota hilux surf, with the 2lt motor, the one with a turbo????

would be slow up hills with the 2 tonnes on the back, but with an aftermarket/ stock turbo wound up to 10 lbs of pressure. or as far as it would reliably go, with aftermarket intercooler, extractors, and corrct plumbing you can have a decent tow rig and reesonabl economy hopefully.

Anyone think different or please correct me.
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Follow Up By: Member - David L2 (VIC) - Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:33

Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:33
Christopher, thanks. Will add to list for review. David
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 10:06

Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 10:06
forget the 2LT Surf. They have a problem even without towing a large load.
The 1KZ 3 litre Surf (which is 94 onwards) is a miles better engine.
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Follow Up By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 10:37

Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 10:37
is that one diesel or petrol???
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Reply By: Member - Joel and Michelle (WA - Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:33

Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:33
G'day David
I had the same dilemma when I traded up from 1 tonne jayco Swan to 2.6T loaded jayco Sterling. My 2004 3.0l With chip was still only rated at 2.5T. A couple of mates who drive 4.2l patrols suggested I should follow them but with less power than the 3.0l I didn't think that it would cope with 2 laps of Oz.I ended up with a 2006 TD auto landcruiser again chipped and 3" exhaust, More power than I need but If I keep it below 90 Fairly economical ( sort of ).It tows great very solid on the road and off and more importantly the Mrs and the Kids love it.
The 2006 start at around 60 g but there are more of them on the east coast so you might be able to bargain more than I could. My Mates with patrols are normally watching so this might flush them out. Did the Gibb 3 weeks ago and had a great drive through Litchfield Park today.
Joel
One day I decided to stop dreamin and here I am.
Joel
AnswerID: 426694

Follow Up By: Member - David L2 (VIC) - Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:49

Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 22:49
Joel, thanks. I think you're getting close to the mark. May have to get one a little older, but not in a big hurry, so have time to look for low mileage ones. Can't go just yet as family ties, aged parents and dog. Going on 65 yrs. so I need to get to it before I'm too old to hitch the van.
Got 3months reprieve last year and did Cape York . Great, but makes me more restless. David
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Follow Up By: Member - David L2 (VIC) - Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 23:15

Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 23:15
Joel, liked your last line. Gibb, rough as they say? David
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Follow Up By: Member - Joel and Michelle (WA - Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 23:37

Sunday, Aug 08, 2010 at 23:37
Did it in 1987 and it was rough this time it seemed like a highway, but the kalumburu rd is the worst. The rd into Mitchell Plateau was good, left the caravan at Fitzroy Crossing and tented it.
Joel
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Follow Up By: Member - David L2 (VIC) - Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 07:32

Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 07:32
Hey Joel, Sometimes we have got to get the tent out otherwise we can't see the best places. My wife doesn't like it much, but there you go. David
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Reply By: OREJAP - Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 10:16

Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 10:16
Price is a factor....What's your limit? If you have a lazy 60 to 80 Large, buy a T/Diesel Cruiser....if finances a lower buy a 4.8 ltr Patrol ST Petrol or a V8 petrol cruiser and put a bomb underneath (Gas).....personally for between $20,000 & $40,000 I would buy a T/D Pajero GLS Auto....they pull like a trail are two & a quarter tonne. Very comfortable and a great touring vehicle & if the wife doesn't mind a drive too, she will find it a very nice & safe vehicle. You can drive the auto like a manual by a push on the auto lever to the left or just let the auto do the work. Borrow one from a Dealer (If you Private message me I can supply more detail for you) hook up the van and go for a drive!! The other choice is a New Navara either 6 speed manual or auto....I believe the manuals are having clutch problems however a good all rounder...but a bit uncomfortable in my opinion.
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Follow Up By: Member - David L2 (VIC) - Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 18:11

Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 18:11
OREJAP, Thanks. I'm the 20-40k type. Pajero has definitely been on my list. I drove a Navara (previous model) with a lighter van around Tass when my trusty Disco blew a head gasket. Went well, but agree comfort wasn't one of it's good points.
A bit reluctant get an auto after loosing the starter motor on my Cape York trip. Good to get the feedback. David
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 19:58

Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 19:58
Hi David

You don't say which 100 series but if price is a factor I presume you mean the basic barn door version.
I could reccomend the 151kw 100 series turbo , but not the two cars you mention , they really just do not have enough power and struggle by themselves and both take 20 sec's or so to get to 100 without a load.

This is unsafe in my opinion , and why would you do it , when the petrol options of both cruiser and patrol and simpler better all round included the fabled but mistical fuel cost red - herring, and when you start talking engine repairs - well forget the diesel.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This doesn't directly relate because its an unusal case but its real for some of us.

After just doing the Canning in our petrol 4800 patrol we had occasion to need to travel across N.T. in a hurry at speed limit 130.

My brother also did it in his 80 series after market turbo cruiser under the same conditions.

To his surprise he ran out of fuel , a check of both showed that the 4800 patrol averaged 19.3 lt/100km and the diesel cruiser 20.5lt/100km.

The cruiser had a small roof rack and 1 size up tyres , however the real base reason is that the petrol car was just loafing along , whereas the cruiser had to go near its upper limit to maintain 130 average and this just really chews the juice - but then so does towing a big load.










Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Member - Joel and Michelle (WA - Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 21:25

Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 21:25
In the 100s if you install an intercooled turbo as after market you will not get the same power or economy as the facory version.I think this is a totally different package. This may be the same with the 80s you mention, as I had one a few years back and investigated aftermarket turbo and was turned off by the lack of power and the cost. About 3 months ago I was behind a low Loader with mining equip on and was able to pass comfortably (Towing 24ft Jayco ), couldn't have done that in a smaller vehicle. It's always a compromise between cost and power.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 22:08

Monday, Aug 09, 2010 at 22:08
Hi Joel

You might stir up the 80 series aftermarket boys with that , they certainly like to claim more than factory but they do go quiet on longevity - either way the point that I am trying to put to David is that one needs to have somthing that cruises well within its normal power range as they quickly go off when pushed.

On the 80 series I referred to this result was quite an eye opener as it is very carefully setup by those that know what they are doing.
I had to make the most of this rare opportunity to revel in the fact that the petrol simply used less fuel than diesel in the same unusal conditions , but in normal driving it not the case as this diesel 80 can cruise at sub 12lt/100km whereas my car almost never drops below 15.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Member - David L2 (VIC) - Tuesday, Aug 10, 2010 at 08:03

Tuesday, Aug 10, 2010 at 08:03
Hi Robin and Joel, I am aware of the 80's limitations re:power. I have 2 friends with them (diesels). I always thought I needed one. The honest one confessed to me that he had to use second gear when going up steep hill fully loaded for a trip with all his gear. He also said no way would it tow my van. His is non turbo.

I also believe that the early 100 (pre IFS) diesel is in reality the 80 with the 100 body and dished wheels for the track width. When I said 100 series, I meant the IFS Diesel, which although IFS! has the motor to which you refer Robin.

I'm also of the view that a bigger,more powerful engine is better because it's only cruising and not having to work flat out like my present vehicle and from what I can tell the fuel consumption would certainly be no worse them I get at present.

As to the diesel V petrol, the argument has been well explored I guess. I'm keeping an open mind.

I'm really appreciating your input guys, thanks, David
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Follow Up By: ross - Tuesday, Aug 10, 2010 at 09:04

Tuesday, Aug 10, 2010 at 09:04
The non IFS model is really a 105 series and it is built on the 80 series chassis(with some slight mods).
The 100 series turbo diesel has the 1HD FTE engine.
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Follow Up By: Member - David L2 (VIC) - Tuesday, Aug 10, 2010 at 10:05

Tuesday, Aug 10, 2010 at 10:05
Ross, spot on. I was dragging something from my failing memory. 105's seem to be advertised as 100 series when for sale. I'd prefer a non IFS, but to get the power and something relatively modern , I seem to have to go to the later 100. I like the patrol to. Very basic, that I may be able to fix myself.

There are many options out there, but I want something plain and simple for which parts for it are readily available around the country. David
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Follow Up By: OREJAP - Tuesday, Aug 10, 2010 at 11:20

Tuesday, Aug 10, 2010 at 11:20
The diesel cruiser returning 5 Km to the litre!!!....hooley dooley that's a bit heavy!!! I suppose it did have a roof rack on too. As I mentioned earlier in this post I am a bit of a fan of the 4800 Patrol on Gas but having said that there are concerns with dual fuel vehicles too. My BIL returned from a trip into W Aust. and was annoyed with the price of LPG. It was more beneficial to tow the van on unleaded ($2.15 p/l) than have a drop in power & economy with LPG ($1.89 p/l) Some vehicles handle the gas well others don't & having vehicles in the past with dual fuel, I leave them alone,settling for my diesel Pajero. Some people keep reassuring themselves that their vehicle is the best by telling others how good it does this or does that....well that's their option. I just like to put diesel in my vehicle,drop out the oil & put on a new filter when service is due & drive it. My Pajero is certainly NOT returning anywhere near the horrid figures as quoted by Robin Re. Fuel economy or should I say lack of it!! On the open Hwy my vehicle certainly doesn't need a written request to the fuel department that we might be overtaking and therefore "More steam please"!!! Regarding the 80 series & other Toyota T/Diesel cruisers....I have travelled behind these vehicle on numerous occasions, friends vehicles,club outings etc....and I have a belief that the Toyota product is over fuelled....the amount of black smoke many cruisers omit from the exhaust is astonishing IMHO
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Follow Up By: Member - Joel and Michelle (WA - Tuesday, Aug 10, 2010 at 16:38

Tuesday, Aug 10, 2010 at 16:38
Can't argue with that, Though if any car I owned that was doing 5kms to the litre it'd be gone. When I got my 100 it would smoke ( overfueled I guess ?). I put the DP chip in and a huge change in performance, but still smoking. Then got the 3" exhaust fitted and the chip retuned for economy you beauty no smoke and still plenty of power. As to the Ifs front end it rolls a lot more than my GU did, though it hasn't stopped me yet, but that one is still a work in progress.
Joel
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