Electrocution in WA

Submitted: Thursday, Aug 19, 2010 at 21:19
ThreadID: 80823 Views:5982 Replies:4 FollowUps:15
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Hi All
Electrocution in WA
Hi All
This may be of interest:
Hi Al l
This will no doubt cause some discussion:
quote"Safety switch may have prevented electrocution death
By office of energy safety, michael bunko, death, rcd

Posted Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:29pm AEST

Map: Geraldton 6530 The Western Australian Office of Energy Safety says the weekend electrocution of a 22-year-old Geraldton man may have been prevented if an electrical safety switch had been in use.

Christopher Anthony Orlando was killed when he received an electrical shock as he stepped out of his caravan about 8:30am on Saturday.

Investigations into the death are continuing but authorities say it appears a damaged extension cord may be to blame.

Chief electrical inspector Michael Bunko is encouraging all home owners to consider installing residual current devices (RCDs) at their properties.

"We're urging everyone to fit RCDs to all socket eyes and lighting points, especially extension cords as the equipment in the caravan was supplied from a socket outlet in the house," he said.

"If RCD's had been fitted to the house, the tragedy may have been prevented."end quote


Note that :
[A]The van was possibly being supplied from a10amp power point in the house
[B]The house , van ,extension lead, were not fitted with an RCD

The van obviously became alive,this may have been due to the damaged ext lead
It would be interesting to know the results of the full investigation.
questions:
Was the lead legal 10amp to 10amp?? or was it one of the 10to 15amp home made jobs??
What was the damage to the lead & why did the fuse olcb not blow/trip?
As many seem to believe it should.

The coroner will have some interesting questions to ask
[a]was the ext lead legal [same rated/sized plug & socket]
[b]was the extension lead an approved lead,or a home made job
[c]What was the actual damage to the lead,how did the damage occur & should the fuse /olcb have blown /tripped
[d]In what manner did the van become alive
Needed @ least two faults:
[1]A fault from active to the frame either in wiring or an appliance &
[2]An open circuit in the earthing system
A damaged lead could be the SOLE cause IF:
[1]the earth wire was cut in half &
[2]the open end of the earth wire ,on the van side of the break, has made contact with damaged active cable ,,making the frame of the van live
This is exactly the scenario that can occur with using an inverter in a vehicle to supply 240v to a van, which many see no problem with. & those will no doubt read this thread
Peter--------------------------------------------------------------



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Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Thursday, Aug 19, 2010 at 22:42

Thursday, Aug 19, 2010 at 22:42
Not if the van has a correctly fitted RCD unit.
I wouldn't connect my van through an inverter anyway as it will interfere with the battery charger and the 12volt power supply (in my van this is separate from the battery).
Regards Dennis
AnswerID: 427778

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:35

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:35
Hi Dennis

A RCD only protects against earth faults which occur after it .
An inverter & wiring in a vehicle can develope potentially dangerous faults which the van RCD will not detect.
It should also be noted that any RCD is inoperable with a standard fully isolated inverter or generator.
The best way is to have the inverter PERMANENTLY fitted with a RCD or even better the newly approved "universal RVD"
Peter
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FollowupID: 698471

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:48

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:48
Peter
You are absolutely correct – I misinterpreted your initial comments.
Mainey is still alive more due to his good luck than his electrical knowledge.
Regards Dennis
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FollowupID: 698474

Reply By: Maîneÿ . . .- Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 04:00

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 04:00
I have no problem (fear) running 240v electrical products via my inverter.

I don't see any connection with the electrocution and the way my 240v products are connected and charged, so will not worry about the accident.

I've had my inverter hard-wired for many years with a fused connection.

Maîneÿ . . .
AnswerID: 427795

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:40

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:40
Hi Mainey

If it is HARD WIRED, [ carried out by a certified electrician],I hope it is in accordance with the rules/regulations
& has a correctly fitted & operational RCD.

Peter
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FollowupID: 698472

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:41

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:41
Hi Mainey
Ps to above
A fuse wil not save you from electrocution
Peter
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FollowupID: 698473

Follow Up By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 13:21

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 13:21
When i was four i held two wires in one hand and blew a ten amp house fuse, nad survived!!!!

Probaly not in the same league as above.

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FollowupID: 698486

Follow Up By: timglobal - Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 16:48

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 16:48
Because the circuit was connected via a couple of cm of epidermal skin - bet that felt painful yet numb.

Try the same trick with a wire in each hand and your heart becomes the fuse...
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FollowupID: 698531

Follow Up By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 16:56

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 16:56
i was to busy screaming for help as i sat there shaking to the 50 -60 hertz, lol.


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FollowupID: 698532

Reply By: oz doc - Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 14:27

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 14:27
Hi Peter, excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by your comment "the earth wire was cut in half". ta, doc.
AnswerID: 427849

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 18:02

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 18:02
Try disconnected, broken, open circuit, split, high resistance, not connected, kaput, etc etc
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FollowupID: 698546

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 20:31

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 20:31
Hi Ozdoc

Dennis has answered for me
but to I'll try to clarify further.
If the cord was damaged & the earth wire was still intact but bare ,I would expect the fuse /olcb to operate if/when said earthwire made contact with the active
The van frame would not be alive
If a fault was in the van wiring or appliance again if the earth wire was intact the fuse should blow & the van frame should not be alive.
In both above caes no shock

However with a broken /open circuited earth wire in the extension lead, a fault in the wiring or an appliance could make the chassis alive, result SHOCK
Or it could be, as I described in earlier post, with the earth wire being open circuited by the damage?? & the bare end of the broken earth wire making contact with the active being exposed due to the same damage.
resulting in no earth return to blow fuse but van frame alive ,result SHOCK.
The last scenario has actually happened, but a machine was involved, not a van

Peter
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FollowupID: 698576

Follow Up By: oz doc - Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 23:31

Friday, Aug 20, 2010 at 23:31
Hi Peter, so your reply begs the question- how do I know if my extension cords are okay? Would faults be obvious to the general public, or are these items something that should be tested at intervals? I confess to know nothing about 240 volt other that it can kill you. I have up until now, had no qualms about using extension cords.Am I being naive?
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FollowupID: 698602

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:32

Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:32
Hi Oz doc

Sorry I explained the problems & causes But your question is a very valid one!

" how do I know if my extension cords are okay? Would faults be obvious to the general public, or are these items something that should be tested at intervals""
[1] DO a thorough visual check every time you take it out to use .
Any signs of cuts, nicks ,or heating[ particularly at plugs or sockets] should be good reason th have it further checked or thrown away
[2]Visual checks however do not reveal hidden broken wires particularly @ plugs & sockets
These breaks are usually caused by the common but bad practise of disconnecting by pulling on the cable rather than the plug
The only way to test for these is to use a continuity tester [some are specificially made for this purpose
If you have a multi meterYou can do a basic test yourself
[a]Set the multi meter to the lowest ohms range,if it is an auto ranging digital meter just set to ohms
[b]with the cable completely disconnected ,
c][Check from earth pin on plug to earth pin on socket the reading should be almost zero ohms
[d]do the same with each line pins
& again read almostr zero ohms
The pins should match @ each end.
All the above tests should be made while pulling & twisting the cable near each plug .
Also by shaking the entire cable
ANY sudden change to a higher reading could indicate a fault[broken wires]

[e]The final tests are done with the meter set to the highest ohm scale.

Test between each pin & the others on either plug or socket end.
the readings should be very high ohms[ almost infinity ]

If the lead fails any of these , it should be replaced, or repaired in an approved manner.
Peter



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FollowupID: 698620

Follow Up By: oz doc - Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 16:45

Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 16:45
Thanks Peter, I'm getting the camper ready today for our next trip. Think I might have a go at checking our cords and see what comes up. Hopefully no nasty surprises.doc.
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FollowupID: 698636

Follow Up By: Member - Ed C (QLD) - Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 17:10

Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 17:10
Jaycar have a Power Point and Leakage Tester which I'd assume would be suitable for checking extension leads...

Then there's this one >> Socket Tester .. I have an older (primitive) version of this, dunno if they're still available (?)

:)

Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

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Reply By: Muntoo - Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 01:11

Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 01:11
I too know very little about 240v.

What do you mean was the lead legal?

I have seen 10A and 15A extension leads and often wondered which one i really need. I understand 12v so surely 240v must be along the same principles.

At what point do you need to start using a 15A lead? 10,000w or something or is it 3600w?

Most of my power tools claim ratings over that so i guess i should be using a 15A lead. Am i right?
AnswerID: 427900

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:00

Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:00
Muntoo - You must have big power tools – 3600w draws about 15 amps whereas 10,000w draws about 40amps
Regards Dennis
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Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:55

Saturday, Aug 21, 2010 at 11:55
Hi Munto
A lead is legal only if it meets the standards.
Some of the things required to meet the standards are:
[1]The actual cable size used is determined by both length of lead & its required amps carrying capacity.
The lead shall not be of lower curent rating than the plug & socket
[2]The PLUG & SOCKET SHALL bE THE SAME RATING
A lead with a 10amp/15amp plug& socket combination IS NOT LEGAL
[3]The lead, plug & socket must be no lower current rating than the load
[4] IF a tool /devise is supplied 15amp lead & plug then that is what is required for it to be approved , legal & sold.

Now re your specfic question the answer is in the above [4]
If the maker has put a 10amp plug on then it is legal/ok to use of a 10amp outlet .
If the maker put a 15amp plug on then it should not be changed & used of a 10amp, doing so means it is no longer an approved devise[no longer legal .does not meet the standards]

It is ok however to plug a a devise with a makers fitted 10 amp plug into a 15amp outlet
This is the way the correct use is attempted to be maintained.
I hope I have explained ,if not just ask again
Peter
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