Cooper STT on wet Murray clay?

Are they a good choice?

Every week or two I travel from Melbourne to a place just outside of Deniliquin near the VIC/NSW border, and when it rains all the tracks there turn to this thick heavy greasy orange clay mud and my 87 Rangie with 'AT' Michelins and a trailer on the back just can't cut it. I figure I need diggers and not floaters for this.

The OEM size is 205/80R16 but muddies in that size are limited. More options are available in 225/75R16 and a few in 215/85R16 (my preference, for a taller tyre with a longer footprint). I'm leaning towards the Cooper STT in that taller size. Reviews suggest that it probably performs as well as anything else in mud, but is also relatively civilised on the highway and wears well.

My other temptation is something directional like the Kumho MT KL71, which looks like a great mudder but I know it will wear faster and probably be rougher on the highway. I'd also have to go for the 'fatter' 225/75R16 size, and I suspect the taller Cooper would do just as well in the mud, in which case highway manners and improved ground clearance would give the STT the edge.

Money isn't a factor as my boss is a legend / has temporarily gone mad and agreed to shout them for me.

Am I on the right track with the STT?
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Reply By: Notso - Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 10:23

Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 10:23
That mud will fill any tyre tread that you use with the possible exception of a good solid open tread that has a good taper in it to allow the mud to throw out instead of packing the treads.

AnswerID: 428598

Reply By: Robin Miller - Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 10:39

Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 10:39
Muddies marginally better but only a set of light chains will cut it Wortgames.

It goes approxiamately like this

Normal 265 AT tyres 100
Muddies 265 about 150
Skinny tyres like 7.50 150

Light Chains (on AT) 400

Never go onto those surfaces without them.


AnswerID: 428600

Follow Up By: wortgames - Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 12:11

Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 12:11
Thanks Robin - are those numbers how'd you rate the options against each other?

I'll definitely get some chains for when things turn really ugly but they are not ideal, my neighbours that live along the firmer parts will string me up if I mash the track up too badly and I could end up fitting and removing them a few times over the weekend. I reckon some decent muddies should get me through most of the time.



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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 12:42

Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 12:42
Basic number were from a study on effect of snow chains by Victorian government some years ago Wortgames.

Its fairly simple though you need cutting power and this is basically the percentage of what tread/chain touches the ground over what doesn't and many of todays muddies are more or less a fuel guzzling waste of time (provided you have chains).

Chains really are a pain , but I've been stuck with both lockers engaged and acually fitted chains and got out on at least 2 occasions , nothing matches them in those conditions and in fact fitting them to muddies is not as effective and as I often go places alone with no chance of help I always take a set - sometimes 2.
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Reply By: olcoolone - Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 13:24

Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 13:24
QUOTE"Money isn't a factor as my boss is a legend / has temporarily gone mad and agreed to shout them for me. "

Why are you hell bent on getting Coopers or the Kuhmos, there are so many other brands out there.

Coopers are OK, we use Toyo Open Country M/Ts and find the work very well and are good on the road.

A little bit dearer then some of the others.
AnswerID: 428619

Follow Up By: wortgames - Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 14:25

Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 14:25
I'm hardly 'hell bent' on the Coopers, but I have to get it down to a shortlist at some point and the skinniest Toyo is 245 which is too fat for me.

I'm keen to stick with tall and narrow, eg 215/85, and the better options in that size are the STT and the Wrangler Duratrac, and I doubt the Duratrac will be anything like as good in the mud as the Cooper.

225/75 is as fat as I'd want to go and that expands my options to Bridgestone D673, BFG KM2, Maxxis Buckshot and the Kumho. Out of that lot I suspect the Kumho will perform best in mud due to its chunky directional tread. The others are all perfectly good options but I'm not sure any of them would actually beat the Kumho or the narrower STT in heavy mud.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 18:10

Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 18:10
Chunky tread doesn't mean it will be better in mud, it comes down to tread design.

It seems you do a lot of bitumen and some mud driven, a M/T tyre with a more aggressive tread will perform worse on bitumen, M/T's with a harder tread block will handle better them a M/T with softer tread blocks.

A more chunky tread block will give you less economy then a not so chunky one due to wind and rolling resistance.

For example a Cooper ST will handle better on bitumen then a ST/C, same tread block but one has a harder compound to the other...but the down side is the harder tread block will chip more on dirt and rocks and the softer tread block one will move around more on the bitumen and wear quicker.

It the tyre world there is no such thing as a fantastic all rounder, each have good and bad qualities.....everything is a compromise.
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Reply By: Horacehighroller - Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 18:04

Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 18:04
Gday Wortgames,

What do your neighbours use?

(Probably the best starting point.)

Peter
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Follow Up By: wortgames - Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 21:15

Friday, Aug 27, 2010 at 21:15
Hi Peter, not so much help unfortunately as they have the luxury of simply not using the tracks when they're muddy. They live on the higher ground and only venture down into the forest when it's dry. My place is further in. Mostly they have 2wd utes. I'm confident the Rangie will be able to get there I just want to pick the best possible rubber for the mud.
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Reply By: Member - reggy 2 (VIC) - Saturday, Aug 28, 2010 at 15:00

Saturday, Aug 28, 2010 at 15:00
Have u tried letting your tyres to about 18/20 psi this would help a lot
cheers reggy2
AnswerID: 428753

Reply By: Member- Tony C - Saturday, Aug 28, 2010 at 21:53

Saturday, Aug 28, 2010 at 21:53
I would go for some mud terrains. I run Goodyear MTR's in size 235/85 /16 on my Triton in winter and find them excellent on the greasy tracks. Chains are a great back up if you find yourself in the situation of having to get through very boggy conditions but for extended use are hard on your tyres.
I considered running 215/85/16 and thought they would have been a good size giving a slightly larger diameter than 225/75/16 however was advised that they are a rare size and that you would have trouble getting hold of a replacement if needed on your travels.
Cheers
Tony
AnswerID: 428781

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