Extension lead

i'm not sure but i believe a 10 amp plug will fit a 15amp socket but not the other way around?

that's correct, however if you have a van or similar with a 15A plug (flush) you still wont be able to plug a 10amp socket into it.

This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Inappropriate Rule .

Forum Moderation Team

This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Moderation Complaints Rule .

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That makes sense, so a 15 amp lead with 15 amp plugs and an adaptor to 10 amp socket would suffice all situatiions. (I think)

Hi again,

Not too sure but I think I read that the Circuit breaker must be Hard Wired?

No it wont an adapter with a 15amp on one end and a 10 amp on the other
IS DEFINITELY ILLEGAL to use in any situation.

Even if you have your van at home and plug it in to a house outlet.

Definitely End of Story.

The anfibian is the only legal solution.

I would say that any competent electrician could make a device that would comply with the Aust Standard.

They probaly can but untill it has passed and been approved by the relevant authority its still illegal

The device mentioned is fully approved and so can be used.

From Caravan and Camping Sales Tech Talk

"It is still not permitted to fit a 10A plug and a 15A socket onto cable of any size because there can be no certainty that it will not be used to carry 15A.

The new rules also provide for retaining the 15A inlet and 15A supply capability, but to use a 10A plug and special cable (that has a built-in 10A circuit breaker, thus providing its own protection) where only 10A supply outlets are available.

Standards Australia advises that such a device might be constructed from proprietary components by a licensed electrician “who will ensure that the rating of the components and the enclosure are appropriate for the circumstances in which it will be used and comply with electrical principles… [the electrician] will also decide if consultation with the State electrical safety authority is appropriate” (#8). "

BCF couldn't sell them if they hadn't been passed, they would be wide open to litigation!

Nobody is suggesting that the Amp Phibian is illegal, all I am saying is that any competent electrician could also make one.

What BCF is selling is more accurately described as a heavy duty 10 amp lead for use on building sites.

I have one bought at Home Hardware in Port Augusta

IT DOES NOT PLUG ONTO CARAVAN

i
FollowupID: 700529 Submitted: Thursday, Sep 09, 2010 at 13:17
Findanomad posted:
That makes sense, so a 15 amp lead with 15 amp plugs and an adaptor to 10 amp socket would suffice all situatiions. (I think)"

Hi
NO ,It will not fix the the problem legally.
The AS/NZS 3001 standards clause 5:1:1 says "The supply lead shall be in one length"
An adapter is a joint ,you would have a TWO piece lead [not approved']

An extension lead [this includes an adapter} SHALL have the same rated plug & socket [AS/NZS31299]
The ONLY way you can have a different rated plug & socket is with an approved lead fitted with complying ,olcb .enclosure ,ETC

The Amphibian lead is approved & meets the requirements

Just Some Guy,

Have you any affiliation with this company?

What if he does what he says is true.

Hi equinox,

I no affiliation with them. I probably should have mentioned that!

I don't have one, have never seen one but when I get a caravan (hopefully soon) I intend on getting one!

no problem - it certainly sounded like it thats all. It gets up my nose when salespeople try to pretend their someone they're not.

Graham - you know it would go against forum rules so why do you even ask

Ok now boys, lets take a breath and relax. Yes it would be against the rules and could lead to a post being moderated but all looks good here so lets enjoy the excellent info that's being shared.

Regards,

The Moderation Team.

Hello all.
Am wondering after reading posts how does a person get to use a single phase "brand irrelevant" welding machine which requires a 15amp supply, keeping in mind that our normal power points supplied are 10 amp in 99% of places I have seen.
Bearing in mind that to ensure your "warranty" is covered the plug must remain 15 amp, and not be filed or fooled with as it is illegal
So where does that leave the poor bloke that want's to do a bit of handyman stuff at home? let alone a caravan park workshop for repairs if needed.
Am thinking that maybe common sense would prevail in this circumstance
I must point out that although there are machines out there that are rated and supplied with a 10 amp plug they are only good to tack tin plate ( maybe)
Regards
Paul

Get a sparky to fit a dedicated 15amp plug wherever you want it in your house then.

Getting a 15 amp outlet fitted at your house would be cheaper than buying an Amphibian. Buying one just to take with your caravan or camper is probably just taking another piece of stuff that will take up space and weight you'll probably never need. I am not knocking the Amphibian as such, which tradies may find a necessary piece of equipment when working at different houses and building sites.

Mh

Member - Paul F (INT) posted:
Hello all.
Am wondering after reading posts how does a person get to use a single phase "brand irrelevant" welding machine which requires a 15amp supply, keeping in mind that our normal power points supplied are 10 amp in 99% of places I have seen.
Bearing in mind that to ensure your "warranty" is covered the plug must remain 15 amp, and not be filed or fooled with as it is illegal
So where does that leave the poor bloke that want's to do a bit of handyman stuff at home? let alone a caravan park workshop for repairs if needed.
Am thinking that maybe common sense would prevail in this circumstance "

Hi Paul
Probably you , like many others, are not aware that those welders draw up to 30amps & have to have a 15amp plug to be approved for sale.
The smaller one with 10 amp plugs draw up to 18amps.
The rules are not silly as may seem .
They take into account a diversity factor which is time actually welding over total time in a 10minute period
This "OFF" time while deslagging, fitting another electrode, etc allows the wiring plugs,sockets etc to cool down.
The wiring plugs , sockets can carry higher currents for a short time & by applying a diversity factor ,allowances can be made.
YES the poor bloke should get a 15 amp dedicated outlet installed.
Now what better common sense would you suggest to cope with THOSE sought of current draws than what has been taken into account when drawing up the standards [ diversity factor]
Diversity factor is taken into account in many areas of the standards, or you woud not have more than one or two 10amp outlets on a domestic circuit.
Your mains in would be the size of welding cables except for diversity factor.

THE STANDARDS USE A LOT MORE COMMON SENSE coupled with common sense about safety than many would understand

When we purchased a welder some years ago (back in the days of fuses which you put a fuse wire into each time they blew; before RCDs). We were in rental accommodation which was tied to the Government job. We called in an electrician to fit a 15 amp circuit. He fitted a 20 amp one to be most suitable for the load. We moved within two years and did the same again at the next houses, with around two yearly moves. The answer back then by some (maybe they are now members here with their files or home made cheater leads LOL), was to replace the fuse wire with a piece of fencing wire when it blew. How simple it is to do something the right way, and how foolish to do it the wrong way.

Mh

Hi
O wise Mother hen

Well done & well put

Peter

Hi Pinko, I have a heavy duty lead with a 15 amp one end (into van) & a 10amp the other. I plug my house hold extension lead into the 10amp end & use 240 power to power up the van. I do this to keep my smart charger trickle charging my van batteries. Is this unsafe or illegal?

illegal?

OREJAP ,

Both !!!!!

Cheers,

Cruiser

Hi Motherhen

The only one i have come across was at the Murchison about two years ago.

regards Dave.

caravan park in Gerroa, NSW

Thanks for the replies Dave and PradOz. I wonder what would happen if the average caravanner came in to one of these CPs with his proper 15 amp cord and asked how he could use the powered site he had just paid for? I wonder what would happen if something went horribly wrong when someone used a bodgied 10 - 15 amp cord, and if some blame would go back to the caravan park?

Motherhen

Mission Beach council park ony had 10amp outlet on a couple of there sites.

Thanks Motherhen
This is the answer i needed " Just carry a normal 15 amp lead with 15 amp ends." Thats what i will buy.
Thanks for all the comments Cheers
Ian

nothing wrong with having a 15a lead with 10a plugs and yes the package should only be rated at 10a
dont know how they are doing cos the earth pin MUST be bigger to comply with 15a current carrying capacity..as far as I am aware

You have me being inquisitive here, you say you are not electrician but have quoted you can have 20 outlets on 10 amp circuit but only 2 on a 15 amp circuit.

Can you also explain why it may not catch fire and burn you house down, a lot of house fires do stem from electrical faults.

Just remember electricity, has no smell, no sound, cannot be seen, but if you touch it, it can kill!!!

Had a lot of workmates killed and they were trained linesmen.

What I am trying to say lets not be the ultra male, as you might leave a loving family behind.

Cheers,
John

Hi John, I'm a diesel fitter actually and I did say I would stand corrected if anything I mentioned was wrong.
Yes I understand that a lot of house fires are caused by electrical faults, but I was not referring to a fault but a properly made up 15amp lead with a 10amp male plug, plugged into a 10amp outlet.

I do understand the dangers of electricity as I work around it every day, just trying to understand why this is such a dangerous practice that people seem to get so worked up about when we know a lot of people do it.
Chris

Hi Chris,

You can have 15 amps going through a 10 amp plug and the heat build up can create a fire.

Same as when someone has an electrical fault in their vehicle and the 10 amp fuse keeps blowing, so they put a 15 amp fuse in and then they have a fire or or melted wires.

Same scenario a 10 amp plug is rated 10 amps, not 15 amps as the cable is.

Cheers,
John

Now we may be getting somewhere John, but what is the difference between a 10amp plug and/or outlet when it looks like its only the size of the earth pin?

You are spot on Chris and Debbie, the earth pin is the only difference on the plug. The lead itself is a larger diameter cable, the plug isnt an issue, and I dont believe a 10A plug is a danger on a 15a lead, but it is illegal. The earth pin doesnt carry any load at all, so it doesnt really matter how big it is

"The earth pin doesnt carry any load at all, so it doesnt really matter how big it is"
it may in certain Fault conditions

yep MN1 you are quite correct and in that case, the fuse would be the weak point of the fault current path, certainly not the earth pin of a extension lead

Slightly off subject but I cannot understand the thinking that if you plug a 15amp lead into a 10amp outlet your house is going to catch fire and burn down. Yes I know its highly illegal but why would it catch fire?
I am not an electrician so I will stand corrected if wrong but as I understand it, a 15amp circuit in a house has the same size wiring as a 10amp circuit. The breakers are the same size on both circuits, 16-20 amps, the only difference is that you are only allowed 2 outlets on a 15amp circuit whereas you can have upto 20 outlets on a 10amp circuit. So would someone explain, except being illegal, why it is so dangerous to put a 10amp plug on a 15amp lead.
Chris


Hi Chris
See my post 9 of 9 above
Diversity factor based on what is believed to be the way each circuit may be used
I do not understand why so many with little knowledge, of ALL the factors involved& that have to be taken into account, are so reluctant to accept that those drawing up the standards do know what they are doing.

Just a short list of factors involved:
Equipment likely to be used.
Max demand of that equipment.
Assumed diversity factor for that equipment & circuit
Circuit length ,active & neutral
Possible voltage drop
Circuit loop impedance .This can be affected by joints .plug connections ,etc & is one of the concerns with joining extension leads.

It should also be remembered that the rules have to take into account that: not all homes are wired with 20 amp cable for the power circuits.
Not all homes have circuit breakers , in fact I would say a very large number are still fitted with rewirable fuses & has the home handy man with his welder stopped that fuse from blowing, by putting in the biggest wire he can??


A LOT MORE INVOLVED THAN MOST ARE AWARE OF

Oldtrack, while I agree with you list of factors surely the ones drawing up the standards do not allow for people doing the wrong thing?
I would assume that if a house was not wired with 20amp cable then It would/should not have a 20amp fuse/circuit breaker fitted.
Do they allow for the handyman that has replaced his fuse wire or breaker with a higher rating who may then go and plug a high current draw appliance into each outlet in his house?
Chris

Hi Chris
They try to see what may happen & WARN of possible problems such as some of those mentioned on this thread.
All are well aware of the problems with rewirable fuses & people doing the wrong thing
One of the reason olcbs are now mandatory
Unfortunately that does not stop those who have the wedge type fuses holders fitting the wrong size miniature olcb.

RE:"Do they allow for the handyman that has replaced his fuse wire or breaker with a higher rating who may then go and plug a high current draw appliance into each outlet in his house? "

That's where the much spouted theory of common sense falls down & of course there is no practical way available except hard wired olcbs.
The other problem is that the rules are not retrospective.
Changes can only be enforced if an alteration or addition is made & unfortunately some sparks do not follow this rule.

Peter

Collyn also says -

"Australian caravan parks that provide mains electricity have, for some years, been legally required to install safety-protected 15-amp outlets. It is now permissible to use an outlet of another rating or configuration . for specific anticipated types of relocatable premises 1 . In practice however caravan parks will continue to provide service pillar mounted 15-amp outlet sockets, circuit breakers, and residual current devices."

"At caravan parks that only have 10-amp outlets. You should move on, or forgo mains power as it's odds on that obligatory safety devices are not installed either. This leaves users at risk as these safety devices are now relied upon to provide safety protection in otherwise potentially lethal fault conditions."

Mh

Hi Mh
Your extract from Collyns book give the full story .
It is amazing how some will only read or believe what they want to believe.

He does not suggest that plugging in a van with a 15amp socket into a 10amp outlet is legal.

FAR FROM IT, yet many have reading his book claim that is what he has said!!

IT is still legal for a vehicle with a10amp inlet socketto plug into a 10amp power supply using an APPROVED 10ampx10amp lead, that is what he is referring to
Peter