In-Line fuses, are they all they are cooked up to be?
Submitted: Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 18:42
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Bonz (Vic)
Had a problem last weekend with the
driving lights whilst in the
Vic High Country. Ever sane Muzbry told me not to worry cause I wouldn't need them but I was wanting to find out what was wrong. Tested at the relay, which was still clicking when the high beam went on and found I had 12.66v on the +ve, thats a good
sign, and also when I bridged the lights side of the relay they sprung into life, hmm must be that 29 yr old Hella relay.
Bought a new one and refitted and still no joy. When I did a bit more investigating I found the inline fuse had deteeriorated and although it would show a voltage on the cable there was no current getting thru, I thought that was wierd?? Anyone else had this type of problem?? I had two of these things and just pulled the other one out and foudn it was similarly stuffed although still operating OK. In neither case was the actualy fuse blown.
These are the pics
Outside looks fine
Inside looks stuffed
Its all good now, much improved
Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 18:42
Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 18:42
By the way the 29yr old Hella relay is working perfectly still
AnswerID:
431408
Reply By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 18:49
Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 18:49
Bonz,
I have just had the same problem, but with 2 seperate fuses.
One was with the under bonnet compressor, it wouldn't start when in Mt Moffatt at
Easter but then sprang into life. Later found that the fuse was melted similar to the about.
Then about a month ago the driving light fuse went the same way :(
At least now I am carrying a couple of spare ones with me now LOL
Cheers Kev
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AnswerID:
431409
Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 21:51
Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 21:51
hi
just like battery terminals and clamps need periodic cleaning
so do inline fuse holders i take them out and rub the end of fuse across a wire brush and also the contact surface on the end of the wires that connect to the fusei nside the holder when they are inserted
then spray them with crc and also spray a bit inside the holder before putting it back together
moisture and dust gets in over a period of time building up resistance and you will experience the exact problem that you just have
it only takes a few minutes to do the maintenance and insures a trouble free run for the life of the vehicle
cheers
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 07:16
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 07:16
The inside of the fuse holder was clean as a whistle, no corrosion of moisture, even the copper was still
bright copper coloured, its a mystery as to why the heat buildup. All I can sus is that the holder itself has held the heat and caused the meltment.
FollowupID:
702176
Reply By: StormyKnight - Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 18:55
Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 18:55
The only thing I can think of is that perhaps
water & dust over time has allowed current to bypass the fuse. Now this circuit would be high resistance, but if enough current flowed it could heat up & melt the fuse itself...
What is that
orange dust anyway is it just High Country dust?
Cheers
AnswerID:
431410
Follow Up By: Member - Bentaxle - Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 19:11
Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 19:11
Stormy
Being
orange in colour could point to the possibility of the dust haveing a low to moderate iron oxide content, not real good around electrical stuff as the dust is a good conductor and will dramatically shorten the effective life of electrical bits , fuses etc.
Mike
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FollowupID:
702154
Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 21:23
Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 21:23
Its outback NSW dust, but the inside of the unit is sealed, the
orange bit at the base of the melted fuse base is the rubber seal. All the flttings around the fuse itself are sealed
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - Rob Mac (QLD) - Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 19:22
Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 19:22
Hi Bonz, recently had a similiar problem.Roo lights would not work, checked fuse(different style than your photo, flip cap type) not blown bought new relay didnt fix checked fuse again and found corrosion on blades. Cut it out and crimped in a new one and lights worked. Havnt found anything that will clean corrosion inside blade holders. Still have to re wire my headlight connectors as one is a bit dodgy.
Cheers
AnswerID:
431411
Reply By: Member - Stuart P (WA) - Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 19:33
Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 19:33
replace the fuse holder ,the contacts are creating resistance , where there is resistance there is heat and the fuse will melt
AnswerID:
431414
Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 21:25
Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 21:25
thanx Stuart I did replace the whole unit (see below) but there is no evidence of heat buildup in the actual contacts
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 21:29
Saturday, Sep 25, 2010 at 21:29
This is the new setup, the two feeds at the bottom each feed three of the circuits, both are 6mm cable. I also ran 2 6mm feeds to headlights relay and new driving light relay.
AnswerID:
431419
Follow Up By: Member Brian (Gold Coast) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 08:06
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 08:06
Bonz,
Nice set up mate... neat & tidy!
I added the following in case you don't know..... if you do, then just disregard my drivel... LOL... if it's wrong, I'll happily stand corrected!
Happens a lot with 12V gear, you will often find 12vdc on your meter but the lights/fridge/winch won't run when you turn 'em on. If you have your meter on the terminals when you DO turn 'em on.... you will notice the voltage disappears, or at least greatly reduces. It's called "dragging down"... 'round here it is anyways.... ;-)) Resistance can be caused by a great many factors but usually age/dirt/grease etc... and contacts can build up resistance on their terminals just by use. Particularly relay contacts, e.g
driving lights carry a high current, and when you switch them off, an "arc" occurs across the contacts for a split second. This builds up crap on the contacts over the years and eventually will cause a failure unless the relay is a very good brand, like your 29(?) yr old relay. It also, in my experience, doesn't take a lot to interfere with a 12 vdc circuit.
Cheers
Brian
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 08:27
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 08:27
Thanx Brian, I do a bit of electrical stuff and havent ever seen the no current problem I had here. I know about the dragging down but more to do with mains voltages. INteresting stuff eh? Thanx for your comments
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 00:46
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 00:46
Gday Bonz,
Yep, when fuse holders are close to the battery, they corrode. This creates resistance and then the fuse holder melts.
To stop it, you can do what you and the car makers have done and mount the fuses in a box further away from the battery. In addition I coat the blade fuses with vaseline.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 07:08
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 07:08
Hey Phil,
Theres no corrision inside the holders at all, everything is clean as a whistle, I am puzzled
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Reply By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 05:01
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 05:01
Gday Bonz
So,seeing that there is nothing on next weekend, are we going up the bush to get your money back for the relay ?
Murray
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 07:14
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 07:14
hmm that sounds like a plan, but alas we are engaged
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Member - GeeTee (NT) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 08:01
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 08:01
Had the same thing happen to my in-line fuse to my 12v feed to my towbar mounted Anderson plug. A voltmeter showed voltage but as soon as you tried to draw current in went open circuit. A bit weird ! The fuse nwas "melted" similar to the one shown in the
pic.
GT
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:51
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:51
HI
To detect possible bad joints in any line, the line MUST be loaded when the voltage
test is carried out
Check voltage @ battery then work towards load when sudden drop occurs the fault lies between that point & the previous point
BUT THE CIRCUIT MUST BE UNDER LOAD
FollowupID:
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Reply By: OzTroopy - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 10:36
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 10:36
Heya Bonz ...
Never had much joy over the longterm with those cutesy little inline blade type holders ... even with some dielectric grease applied.
For single inline applications I stick with something like the 54382BL unit from narva ...
30amp inline 3AG fuseholder ............ bit of a PITA carrying 3AG fuses but most of
mine have been in use for 15+yrs and never had an issue even when re-used for other tasks.
Quality multiple blade fuse holders - like in your photo seem to be a winners tho .... I just wish they came with one input so one didnt have to mess about with multiple connections.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 15:36
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 15:36
Yep totally agree about the input, what a pain to connect and solder up all the connections .
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Dion - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 21:39
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 21:39
You mean like this:
http://bluesea.com/category/5/21/productline/126
Pictured is a 12 way, but they also come in 6 way as
well. Have one common positive and negative post, so only one conductor to each of the poles in the battery.
3AG fuses, didn't even Noah do away with them because of their poor reliability?
Cheers,
Dion.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 21:48
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 21:48
What a neat package, I might need to get me some of these
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Dion - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 21:48
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 21:48
These types of balde fuses can also melt without rupturing beacuse there has been no capacity engineered into their intended usage.
Case in point. If for a 100watt driving light, you have an assumed 13.8V available, this would equal I of 7.2A. In theory, a 7.5A fuse would do the job, but as fuse is running at near 100% of it's rated capacity, it will run reasonably hot. You could use a 15A fuse, which under normal conditions would only be under duress at 50% of it's rated capacity, whilst still affording reasonable rupturing capacity if a short or serious overload condition existed.
The fuse with near 100% of it's rated capacity will get hot, whereas the fuse with additional capacity, ie running at only 50% of it's rated capacity will not get so hot.
Cheers,
Dion.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 21:49
Sunday, Sep 26, 2010 at 21:49
These were 30a fuses, runnung 2 100w lights
FollowupID:
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